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Tactical combat casualty care ( TCCC )

medicineman said:
True enough - the problem is some of those space fillers are taking up spaces that people with more aptitude or who are much more motivated to do the course could be using.  Not that something like that ever happens in the CF...much  ::).
MM

Hmmm.... when I was instructing this several years ago everybody on the base had to take it as part of readiness for overseas postings, so there really werent any spaces wasted by 'space fillers'...... I guess that isnt the case anymore?
 
Not the proper TCCC course - it tends to be run more like a PCF course with only some of the troops getting the full 2 weeks of training (it is an OSQ).  The "Combat Related First Aid" as it is now called is what the remainder of the masses get - a quick change of mindset, down and dirty TK and QC use and some scenario work.

MM
 
medicineman said:
- a quick change of mindset, down and dirty TK and QC use and some scenario work.
I believe a very useful change of mindset.

If someone is choking on that always-present piece of sausage, I'm not St John Amb current -- so no hind-lick (sp?) manoeuvre.  ;)
 
Journeyman said:
I believe a very useful change of mindset.

If someone is choking on that always-present piece of sausage, I'm not St John Amb current -- so no hind-lick (sp?) manoeuvre;)

Translation available?
 
The Hind-Lick Manoeuver is the alternate method to the old standby the Heimlich and it is only taught in certain portions of Atlantic Canada.  To perform it, you require yourself situated in front of the choking victim with any person handy bent over in front of you with their bare bottom to your front - the rest is self-explanotory.  The patient usually will spontaneously vomit the offending piece of sausage up within 2 licks.

MM
 
GreyMatter said:
I had a feeling it was something rude...   :eek:
Hey, I'm just an infantry guy. I leave the spelling and details to the experts (like medics and aircrew), who obviously have more experience at these things.  >:D
 
Journeyman said:
Hey, I'm just an infantry guy. I leave the spelling and details to the experts (like medics and aircrew), who obviously have more experience at these things.   >:D

He of course fails to mention he was paramedical himself... ::)

MM
 
Good Morning,

I just returned from CFB Edmonton after completing the TCCC instructor course and I am blown away by the shift has happened and it was the army that is pushing something so new  forward so quickly.  I should say that I am not surprised and that I am extremely pleased to be involved.  What a paradigm shift  as a medic to be able to put the "ownership" issue on medical skills  aside.  It seemed like the infanteers on this serial seemed to soak it up, integrating the skills very easily into their tactics and being very effective in the role.

I know what the perception from the medical side is very positive, and I am curious on hearing from combat arms people learning and applying these skills.  Comments ?
 
It seems that the US Army plans to deal with this issue on a much broader scale.


Army begins training combat soldiers to save lives
Interventions may mean life or death
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070527/NEWS01/705270511/1008/NEWS01
By Michael Felberbaum Associated Press Sunday, May 27, 2007

RICHMOND, Va. -- The Army is increasing the medical training it gives to soldiers in the hope that those in combat can begin administering critical medical care to their wounded comrades on the battlefield, in some cases saving lives.

The service's five basic training bases will begin offering combat lifesaver training, including instructions on starting an IV and helping soldiers breathe through a tube, by June 15. The bases train up to 180,000 soldiers annually, including National Guard and Reserve components.


Soldiers at Fort Knox and at Fort Sill in Oklahoma already have begun the training.

Officials said medical care given immediately after injuries like gunshot wounds and those caused by roadside bombs could mean the difference between life and death, and simple lifesaving techniques could cut down on long-term injuries and deaths.

"The most critical 10 minutes in a soldier's care in combat is the first 10 minutes," said Col. Kevin Shwedo, director of operations, plans and training for the Army Accessions Command, which oversees training. "We've focused on the skills that would give us the greatest opportunity to evacuate an individual to a higher degree of health care."

Previously, a limited number of soldiers in each unit were trained on advanced lifesaving procedures, and most soldiers learned only basic first aid techniques, like bandaging and performing CPR.

"You won't have to wait as long to find the one combat lifesaver you had trained," said Shwedo, whose command is based at Fort Monroe in Hampton, Va.

More in-depth medical training can also make the difference between bringing back a patient and bringing back a corpse, said Col. Patricia Hastings, director of the Army's Department of Combat Medic Training based at Fort Sam Houston in Texas.

"First aid is just not good enough anymore," she said.

Col. Annie Baker, commander of the 434th Field Artillery Brigade at Fort Sill, said after only 10 days of basic training, soldiers there started the combat lifesaver certification, which includes sticking needles into each other to learn how to establish an IV.

"We've had some soldiers that have been very timid and concerned -- because people don't like shots -- but not one soldier has not participated," Baker said. "Some looked a little peaked going in there, but between the medics and the drill sergeants coaching and mentoring, they've gotten through it."

Spc. John Hanson, who was a paramedic before he began training at Fort Sill, said it is important to learn the skills, even if it means getting "poked by a complete stranger or someone you've only lived with for a couple of weeks."

"We're used to getting shot at and people getting hurt," said the 29-year-old from Arlington, S.D. "With more of us knowing how to help our buddies, maybe it will make for a more successful outcome."

The new training takes up about one week of the soldiers' nine-week training program, and only rifle marksmanship and physical training have more time devoted to them.

When soldiers get to the battlefield, they can use combat lifesaver bags given to each unit to help tend to fallen comrades. Those bags include supplies like IVs and saline solution, tourniquets, nerve agent antidote, and simple items like gauze and bandages.

Shwedo said the skills not only help save lives in combat, but also improve how soldiers react in situations because they know there is responsive medical care to keep them alive.

"It makes a soldier not only more confident, but more importantly, more effective," he said. "When you focus on the mission instead of 'what could happen to me' you can now take the initiative to the enemy."

LIFESAVER TRAINING

The skills included in the Army's new combat lifesaver course in basic training:
-  Evaluate a soldier's injury while under fire and under normal circumstances.
-  Help soldiers unable to breathe on their own, including inserting a breathing tube.
-  Control bleeding and treat burns, including dressing open wounds.
-  Start an IV of saline solution.
-  Get an injured soldier to a location for further medical care on foot or by vehicle.
-  Perform CPR.
-  Administer an antidote to counteract the effects of a nerve agent.
-  Splint a bone that is suspected to be fractured.

 
FWIW -- they are doing a lot of in theatre training as well -- most if not all deployed troops receive instructions on tourniquet use, needle decompression, quick clot etc.
 
The Combat Lifesaver Course has been around for a number of years - just not on the scale they are now doing it.  It would seem that everyone is now getting it instead of just a couple of soldiers in a section or 1 in a vehicle crew.  Just hope they don't get stuck into the "must start IV" mode before they stop bleeding and such first...

MM
 
medicineman said:
The Combat Lifesaver Course has been around for a number of years - just not on the scale they are now doing it.  It would seem that everyone is now getting it instead of just a couple of soldiers in a section or 1 in a vehicle crew. 

True.  I remember meeting with their OPI for Combat Lifesaver when I was in the States years ago (though not quite when dinosaurs ruled the world).  I brought back a lot of info concerning their (then new) program and wrote a service paper for my boss about the feasibility of instituting a similiar program for the CF.  One of my concerns about adopting CLS in the same format as (then) done by the US Army was their reliance on distance learning and self-study for several aspects of the program.  It seemed at the time that they placed more emphasis on "checking the box" for record keeping rather than ensuring that the individuals had validated skills.  But that was a couple of wars ago and it now appears that the importance of hands-on training is realized.
 
I (among others too it seems) was working on a similar scheme and had also presented a service paper to my boss as I have been involved quite a bit in teaching soldiers their first aid packages and thought something a bit different was in order to cover the wide variety of missions we were dealing with.  I was particularly concered with teaching advanced skills to designated personnel in infantry units and UNMO's due to their unique circumstances.

The distance ed stuff isn't too bad for some of the more cerebral things - it could also be used for threshold knowledge testing at the beginning of the hands on portion to weed out those who probably shouldn't or don't want to be there.  The US military seems to rely alot on these distance education packages to cut down on formal time spent in classrooms, something we only just seem to be catching onto up here.

BTW Blackadder, to put things in context, I became aware of the course about the time of GW1, and I'm sure it had been around for a bit prior to that.  So no, I'm not insinutating anyone is a mouldy  ;D.

MM
 
medicineman said:
The distance ed stuff isn't too bad for some of the more cerebral things - it could also be used for threshold knowledge testing at the beginning of the hands on portion to weed out those who probably shouldn't or don't want to be there.  The US military seems to rely alot on these distance education packages to cut down on formal time spent in classrooms, something we only just seem to be catching onto up here.

And just as we are catching onto it, we are, as usual, far behind in the current trends.  Many major corporations in the US have realized that distance learning doesnt work as well as it should and an increasing number of companies are turning back towards class-based learning environments.  It cuts down a lot on cost and time away from work, but actual learning is limited due to a lack of people to exchange ideas with and discuss concepts that arent clearly represented. 
 
Yes, we may be behind the current trends. But in an army whose troops are gone from family a lot and away from thier home base cutting down course length is cheaper and better for soldiers individual welfare.
 
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