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The Arctic Military Base Thread [merged]

Reccesoldier said:
The crux of the matter deals with money and trade.   The NW passage as an open international strait cuts over 6000km off a journey from Asia to Europe.  It makes it possible to use larger ships than can be accomodated by the panama canal and would be safer than rounding the cape. 

That's a fact.  As to finding a solution - what is wrong with the solution for the Straits of Juan de Fuca and Dixon Channel?  Don't we agree to disagree and conduct joint patrols in those places?  Could do the same on the east with Denmark.  Agree that while we can't agree which one of us it belongs to we can agree it doesn't belong to anyone else.  Keep the squabbles intramural.
 
Cdn Blackshirt said:
I never understood why we didn't just sign an accord with the 'States.  They recognize it as sovereign Canadian territory and we give them special access rights for military vessels.  Tie that in with a threat that otherwise we fund an oilsand pipeline to Prince Rupert for the Asian Market, and I think they'd jump on it.
The problem is that it is not only the Americans who don't recognize our sovereignty. And we shouldn't have to make a deal in order to get another nation to recognize our sovereignty, they should know not to mess with us. Unfortunately years of Canada bending over backward to accommodate everyone hasn't left us with much clout in the world. Sovereignty isn't given it is earned.
 
"Sovereignty isn't given it is earned."
Amen to that!

The new C17 s are one tiny step in the right direction, but we have so far to go.

The American's beef is in part, that they expect to be the ones
to cover our butts should a dispute arise.

Canada has just not been credible in the last 40 years,
in the way we were before Trudeau.

I've actually heard a Canadian citizen suggest that we should simply sub-contract
defense to the US as "Canada isn't very good at it anyway".
I was angry with the guy - and in conversations since have had to explain
why combat ops were something that Canadians had to do in Afghanistan.

"We have seen the enemy, and he is us"- I forgot who said it.






 
We need to have a major partnership between government/military/civilian to really assert our northern sovereignty.  If I had my wishes answered for this, we would have: 
- Major resources to improve what we already have up there
- The deep-water port the Tories promised us
- A scientific research centre for learning about the various climate change and migratory patterns of animals
- A major effort to help the housing crisis they have
- Improved hospitals for both the troops and the locals (for delivering babies to helping the TB, AIDS, and substance abuse problems northerners face)
- All troops to go through the arctic training talked about on other areas of this site

We would need drills for all military very frequently, not only to show that we were using the land, but because life up north is so different for where most Canadians live and, while I'm sure we all have joked about being Canadian = understanding winter better than anyone, part of proving our rightful claim is way more that the occassional tour and removing Denmark's flag.
 
I was listening to CBC radio on the way home and they announced the new deep water port promised is to be a former base on the southern tip of Baffin Island, but I cannot find anything in print confirming that.

Anyone know of any sources that confirm that?
 
There is a major Exercise going on around there right now.  They aren't confusing that, with building a Base there are they?
 
Link

thats to the CBC article, and it doe not look like confusion at all

reproduced under fair dealings

Far up north on the tip of Baffin Island, an abandoned mine is set to play out a crucial military role in Canada's mission to assert its sovereignty in the Arctic.

CBC News has learned that the federal government is proposing to refurbish the former lead-and-zinc mining site into a deepwater docking facility, and also plans to build an army training centre in the North.

Military planning documents, obtained through an Access to Information request, outline plans for a $60-million conversion of the old Nanisivik Mine, which closed in 2002, into a Canadian naval station. 

An army training centre is expected to be located in Resolute, Nunavut, one of Canada's most northern communities, sitting on the shores of the disputed Northwest Passage. The international strait remains free to all navigation, although Canada claims ownership over the much-coveted waterway and shipping route.

The prospect of the new, strategically placed military centre is exciting for Pierre Leblanc, the former commander of the Canadian Forces in the North.

"That facility, being a military facility sitting on the Northwest Passage, will also give a very clear political signal to the rest of the international community that we are serious about our sovereignty," Leblanc said.

Continue Article

For years, Leblanc said he campaigned to the government for a large sovereignty centre in Resolute to be operated by the army, navy, air force, and other government departments such as Customs, Immigration, and the RCMP.

PM expected to announce Arctic base this week
While the new training centre doesn't live up to Leblanc's ambitious vision, he was pleased nonetheless. "It's important for Canada to be able to say this is ours, and if you want to go in here, these are the rules and standards by which you will abide," he said.

If the planned refurbishment of the mine goes ahead, it would deviate slightly from the Conservatives' promise during the last election campaign to build a new military deepwater port in Iqaluit.

The government of Nunavut pushed for the construction of that port as well as a small craft harbour in the territorial capital. The proposed port would have cost about $50 million.

Nanisivik, however, already has a deepwater dock and a fuel reservoir. It is also closer to the Northwest Passage.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is expected to announce plans for the Nanisivik site later this week during his stopover in Resolute.
 
Nanasivik is just a hop and a skip from the town of Acrtic Bay.... A very remote place at the best of times

Sooo.... not only will we be staffing ALERT, and a skeleton staff at Iqualuit (air), now we'll be staffing Nanasivik?

Peechy!....
 
Have any of you noticed the wording in regard to the Northwest Passage? In the internet article; http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2007/08/08/arctic-setup.html - " The international strait remains free to all navigation, although Canada claims ownership over the  waterway and shipping route." So has the government reversed its position. Is this no longer Canadian inland waters? Or is this shoddy journalism? If the Northwest Passage is to be ceded as 'international waters', in view of its narrowness and its navigation hazards, does that not mean that the Strait of Georgia is now international waters?

 
The international strait remains free to all navigation, although Canada claims ownership over the much-coveted waterway and shipping route. 

Shoddy i.e. up to normal CBC standards journalism.  Note that it even contradicts itself.  To be factually correct it should read:"The status of the strait is currently under dispute although Canada has traditionally claimed ownership over......".  But what can you expect there isn't much national pride in our national communications centre
 
Reading deeper etc, for the port, the area in question on the northern tip of Baffin Island was a site of a large mine which was closed in 2002, and the port facility is still being used part time by the Canadian Coast Guard (we have those?  ;) ). When the mine was in operation, large cargo ships would dock there from May to Oct. With ice breaking capability it would could be a yr round port.

The mine site area just east of Artic Bay also has a hardened dirt runway which could be built up to accept aircraft as large as commercial 737s.

The only stumbling block would be populating such a remote area.

Personally I say lets get it on and going.

As for an army training area near Resolute....we are way beyond the stage where we know we have a need for it. It has been too long since we were doing biannual above-the-treeline/Artic Circle winter exercises. As Canadian Soldiers, knowing how to fight in the desert and mountains is good, but fighting in the Artic should be one area we master.
 
Populating a remote area like this would be a great problem - unless there are incentives and unless the law is changed - it's been a long time, but i remember an article published in the Western Producer in the early nineties about  land ownership in the Northwest Territories being only possible by nonwhites - presumably first nations people.. The article in question dealt with the fact that those individuals who used to own land, did not anymore - hence big problems in selling their farms. I can foresee problems in setting up this base in regard to future land claim demands... I'm sure even at this very moment some law firm is rubbing its hands with glee......
 
The land in question is already private property as it is currently owned by Breakwater mining.

Or thats how I read it.

 
The article from CP

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/08/08/pf-4403144.html

August 8, 2007

Harper visit suggests old mine site to be home to new Arctic military port

By BOB WEBER, The Canadian Press

(CP) - Suggestions that Prime Minister Stephen Harper will visit a remote site on the north tip of Baffin Island Friday is fuelling speculation that Canada's new Arctic military port will be located on the site of a former mine.

The dock at the Nanisivik mine, located near the eastern gateway to the Northwest Passage, remains in regular use and can easily accommodate large vessels, said Robert Carreau of Breakwater Resources, which operated the mine until shutting it in 2001.

"It's a bona fide deepwater port," he said, capable of handling vessels of at least 50,000-tonne capacity.

The dock was built in 1974 by federal funds and has been used ever since to move supplies and ore concentrate from Breakwater's lead-zinc mine. The Coast Guard has also used it as a refuelling station.

Breakwater and the Coast Guard still use the dock.

"It's in fairly good shape," said Mike Hecimovich of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, which owns the site.

Infrastructure in place includes the dock, a breakwater and a functioning tank farm that used to store fuel for the mine. A nearby airstrip capable of handling planes up to the size of a 737 is also in regular use by the nearby community of Arctic Bay.

The government of Nunavut, which currently owns the airstrip, is decommissioning it while it builds a replacement but the old one is still useable, said spokesman Methusalah Kunuk.

"We try to maintain it to a minimum standard," he said.

The airstrip includes a small terminal and cargo facility.

Military planners have been eyeing the Nanisivik site, tucked away in the sheltered Strathcona Sound, since at least spring 2006.

"They were pleased we wouldn't be on the open ocean," Carreau said.

Although the port has tides as high as five metres, its ice-free season is long for such a high latitude.

The waters are ice-free from July to the end of September, said Carreau. With icebreaking support, the port is useable from May into October.

Nanisivik used to be an entire company mining town, but those buildings are being gradually demolished and removed from the site. Arctic Bay residents had hoped to move some of those buildings to their community, but years of tailings dust from the mine left them too contaminated with lead to use.

Breakwater is currently in the second year of its reclamation plan and expects to complete it by the end of next summer, said Carl McLean of Indian and Northern Affairs.

Little of the infrastructure from the town or the mine will remain, but the military isn't expected to have to replace much. The navy just needs a place where it can safely refuel and resupply, as well as move soldiers on-and offshore.

Nanisivik is one of several areas that have been considered for the port, which Harper promised to build during the last federal election.

Harper is currently on a three-day tour of the Arctic.

On Wednesday, he added about 5,000 square kilometres to the Nahanni National Park Reserve in the Northwest Territories, fulfilling a pledge made by two environment ministers. Thursday, he is scheduled to visit the community of Resolute, which some say will become the site of a new winter warfare school.

Like Nanisivik, Resolute already boasts some federal infrastructure - the Polar Shelf research facility, owned by Natural Resources Canada.

Estimates suggest using that facility during the winter, when it's empty of the researchers that occupy it in the summer, would cost about $500,000 a year. Building from scratch could cost up to $20 million.

Although Harper's trip has been planned for months, the recent visit to the sea floor under the North Pole by a Russian submarine has given his announcements greater prominence.

The military is also in the middle of Arctic maneouvres in the waters off Baffin Island's southern coast.
 
Just for background,  This is from last August:

http://arcticnet-ulaval.ca/index.php?fa=News.showNews&home=4&menu=55&sub=1&id=225

Deep-sea port location is big question as Harper heads to Arctic

(August 10, 2006)  Maclean's (Jennifer Ditchburn)

OTTAWA (CP) - Nunavut is abuzz over the Conservative campaign promise of a deep-sea port for the territory as Prime Minister Stephen Harper makes his first official visit to the Arctic this weekend.

The port is the subject of furious lobbying and politicking in Nunavut, and people will be listening closely for any hints about where it might be located. The facility could bring in big bucks for its host community and provide better access to supplies for a number of areas. The increasing number of cruise ships in the Arctic could also find a new place to dock.

From a military perspective, a port could serve as a base for new navy vessels promised by Harper to patrol the northern seas and guard Canada's sovereignty.

And from a political view, Harper hopes the promise of the facility and its economic benefits will attract votes.

The prime minister will be in Iqaluit as the city celebrates the Canadian military with a parade and various exercises. It's his latest stop in a cross-country summer tour, and he's expected to reinforce his commitment to defending sovereignty.

Harper is also likely to hear about climate change in the Arctic, the impacts of which are said to be signals of what's in store for the southern part of Canada in decades to come.

Melting glaciers and rising sea levels are threatening communities and wildlife in the region. Areas that depend on ice bridges for transportation of goods in the winter months are finding the season for those frozen roads is getting shorter and shorter.

Iqaluit Mayor Elisapee Sheutiapik has met with Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor and officials looking at the possible locations for the new port. Her city was originally touted by the Conservatives as the location for the facility.

"The infrastructure is key," she said. "We have a huge airport facility here, we have one of the longest airstrips in Canada. If they were to overload here, they could easily fly off to communities. For resupply, we have the services here that could provide that.

"With cruise ships that would definitely increase our tourism . . . our artistic talent is just being discovered."

But Sheutiapik and other city officials are not getting the favour of Premier Paul Okalik, who has said he'll support any location in the territory.

One of his cabinet ministers is supporting an area on the south end of Baffin Island called Kimmirut, which could be connected to Iqaluit with a new highway.

And recently Northwest Territories Premier Joe Handley threw Tuktoyaktuk into the mix as a possibility.

Retired Col. Pierre Leblanc, former commander of the Canadian Forces in the North, said the place that makes the most sense from a defence perspective is Resolute, a potential gateway to the ever widening Northwest passage.

"If you were to combine everybody - customs, immigration, RCMP, Canadian Forces and Coast Guard - they could all use effectively a facility in Resolute Bay that wouldn't have to be open all year round," said Leblanc, now a consultant for the diamond industry.

"Because it's sitting on the Northwest passage, it could also have sub-surface surveillance systems to spot any nuclear submarines that are transiting the Arctic. And all these activities would reinforce our claims to sovereignty in the Arctic archipelago."
 
if links work,

site of dock:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Arctic+Bay,+Nunavut,+Nunavut,+Canada&sll=45.42144,-75.69189&sspn=0.309409,0.63858&ie=UTF8&cd=1&ll=73.068158,-84.548507&spn=0.008024,0.039911&t=h&z=15&om=1

site of runway:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Arctic+Bay,+Nunavut,+Nunavut,+Canada&sll=45.42144,-75.69189&sspn=0.309409,0.63858&ie=UTF8&cd=1&ll=72.982396,-84.613395&spn=0.016127,0.079823&t=h&z=14&om=1

Artic Bay NU:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Arctic+Bay,+Nunavut,+Nunavut,+Canada&sll=45.42144,-75.69189&sspn=0.309409,0.63858&ie=UTF8&cd=1&ll=73.034242,-85.156059&spn=0.016079,0.079823&t=h&z=14&om=1

 
St. Micheals Medical Team said:
Reading deeper etc, for the port, the area in question on the northern tip of Baffin Island was a site of a large mine which was closed in 2002, and the port facility is still being used part time by the Canadian Coast Guard (we have those?  ;) ). When the mine was in operation, large cargo ships would dock there from May to Oct. With ice breaking capability it would could be a yr round port.

The mine site area just east of Artic Bay also has a hardened dirt runway which could be built up to accept aircraft as large as commercial 737s.

The only stumbling block would be populating such a remote area.

Inuit populate Arctic Bay already....

When I travelled the north between 77 & 85, Nordair flew 737s into Iqualuit, Arctic Bay & Resolute Bay some 3 or 4 times a week.  The Arctic Bay airstrip is well capable of handling heavy loads, cause of the mining equipment that was being shipped in for the mine.
 
Hey, as long as I can get a permit for sustenance hunting -- I'M IN!
 
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