Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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I think he was referring to the base information. Someone had paid for high resolution data for the area. Likely the mining company or the local government for the cleanup of the site.
The Arctic Military Base Thread [merged]
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Looking at the map in that BBC link I don't hold much hope that Canada will have a hope at claiming more than our 200 mile limit, however, that area includes very critical shipping routes through the islands that I hope we will establish as our own territory.
One thing that really is a noodle scratcher is that they are saying that 25% of all the oil /gas in the world lies in this area around the north pole. From what I have read about oil deposits, they are the result of accumulation of organic material over the eons that is buried, compressed and "cooked" at a fairly narrow temperature to create oil and gas. It certainly makes you wonder what our planet must have looked like to have had huge forests around the north pole at one time in our past. Certainly puts global warming in perspective.
One thing that really is a noodle scratcher is that they are saying that 25% of all the oil /gas in the world lies in this area around the north pole. From what I have read about oil deposits, they are the result of accumulation of organic material over the eons that is buried, compressed and "cooked" at a fairly narrow temperature to create oil and gas. It certainly makes you wonder what our planet must have looked like to have had huge forests around the north pole at one time in our past. Certainly puts global warming in perspective.
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WarmAndVertical said:
We'll leave aside the discussion of the organic vs inorganic origin of oil - a hotly contested issue when oil is being discovered in granite that solidified long before the first bugs showed up to capture carbon organically, although you might want to take a look at this from the UNB.
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/Earthscience/Geology/OilandGas/FormationHydrocarbon/OriginsofOil/OriginsofOil.htm
It is true that oil is currently extracted from sedimentary zones where bugs and animals in water captured carbon and laid it down amongst the mud where it was concentrated over time.
Here's an interesting article on the petrified forests of Ellesmere Island which are dated to 55 million years ago. Their existence demands the question how did they grow in the dark? Did they make up for lost time in the summer? Or was the earth rotating around a different North Pole at that time? Similar forests have been found on Axel Heiberg.
450 million years ago there were forests on Greenland.
"A 50-Million-Year-Old Fossil Forest from Strathcona Fiord, Ellesmere Island, Arctic Canada: Evidence for a Warm Polar Climate"
http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic41-4-314.pdf
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Thanks, Kirkhall, interesting stuff. I had read about the fossilized trees in Greenland.
I remember reading about the potential of a large undersea oil deposit near the Falklands, too, which one theory had it, was the reason that the UK defended it at such great cost. Very expensive to get at but, hell, 10 years ago they said that the Alberta tarsands were too expensive to be economic.
I remember reading about the potential of a large undersea oil deposit near the Falklands, too, which one theory had it, was the reason that the UK defended it at such great cost. Very expensive to get at but, hell, 10 years ago they said that the Alberta tarsands were too expensive to be economic.
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http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/08/25/6570331-cp.html
Feds militarizing Arctic at expense of northerners: NDP
By Bob Weber, THE CANADIAN PRESS
INUVIK, N.W.T. - As Prime Minister Stephen Harper prepares to head North again with more spending announcements in his pocket, the federal New Democrats are saying he should stay home unless the Tories are ready to spend money on the needs of people who actually live in the North.
"The focus on military measures is distracting the government from the crucial initiatives that are needed elsewhere," said Michael Byers, an academic and Arctic expert who was recently nominated as an NDP candidate from Vancouver.
In recent years the federal Tories have racked up billions of dollars in promised military investment in the North. Those promises include a deepwater port on the north coast of Baffin Island, a winter warfare school in Nunavut and a series of Arctic patrol vessels for the navy.
Observers anticipate that Arctic sovereignty will be a major plank in the Conservative election platform if there is a fall election.
But Byers, along with leader Jack Layton and Western Arctic MP Dennis Bevington, said Monday that the needs of northerners have been ignored.
None of Nunavut's 25 coastal communities has docking facilities. The location of the planned deepwater port will have very little civilian benefit. Airstrips are decaying and affordable housing is scarce. The Nunavut government is taking Ottawa to court over its failure to implement the Nunavut Land Claim, an accusation that was backed up by a conciliator's report by retired justice Tom Berger.
As well, cancelled national programs such as the $17-million adult literacy programs have a disproportionate effect in the North.
Byers accused Harper and Defence Minister David Emerson of trying to win electoral support by suggesting a crisis in Arctic sovereignty where none exists.
"It is true that governments in different countries, when in elections, tend to push the Arctic sovereignty button," he said. I'm worried that Mr. Emerson and Mr. Harper are doing the same thing right now - ramping up the rhetoric, trying to get people concerned."
At the same time, Byers said Canada has dropped the diplomatic ball on the Arctic.
The Tories have failed to appoint an ambassador to the Arctic Council, a body that brings together all eight Arctic nations. Nor did Canada send its minister of foreign affairs to a recent Arctic summit in Greenland - a meeting that should have been in Canada in the first place, Byers said.
"In Canada, Arctic diplomacy seems to be largely absent."
Harper arrives Tuesday for a three-day visit that will take him from the heart of the Arctic's ever-hopeful energy industry to Tuktoyaktuk on the tip of the Mackenzie Delta to the historic gold rush town of Dawson in the Yukon.
A senior government official said when the visit was announced that it demonstrates the significance Harper places on the North, especially the growing "geopolitical importance" of the melting Northwest Passage. There have been indications from officials that announcements will include one on infrastructure and another that would put "boots on the ground."
N.W.T. Premier Floyd Roland has said he hopes Harper is coming with a promise to build a highway down the Mackenzie Valley corridor.
Others will be looking for an announcement on the proposed $16-billion natural gas pipeline that would carry abundant supplies from the Mackenzie Delta to southern markets and open the entire basin to exploration and development. A possible role for Ottawa in refinancing the project's ballooning budget has been a subject of speculation for months.
Others are hoping for money for a network of Arctic research centres to beef up the one that already exists in Inuvik.
Feds militarizing Arctic at expense of northerners: NDP
By Bob Weber, THE CANADIAN PRESS
INUVIK, N.W.T. - As Prime Minister Stephen Harper prepares to head North again with more spending announcements in his pocket, the federal New Democrats are saying he should stay home unless the Tories are ready to spend money on the needs of people who actually live in the North.
"The focus on military measures is distracting the government from the crucial initiatives that are needed elsewhere," said Michael Byers, an academic and Arctic expert who was recently nominated as an NDP candidate from Vancouver.
In recent years the federal Tories have racked up billions of dollars in promised military investment in the North. Those promises include a deepwater port on the north coast of Baffin Island, a winter warfare school in Nunavut and a series of Arctic patrol vessels for the navy.
Observers anticipate that Arctic sovereignty will be a major plank in the Conservative election platform if there is a fall election.
But Byers, along with leader Jack Layton and Western Arctic MP Dennis Bevington, said Monday that the needs of northerners have been ignored.
None of Nunavut's 25 coastal communities has docking facilities. The location of the planned deepwater port will have very little civilian benefit. Airstrips are decaying and affordable housing is scarce. The Nunavut government is taking Ottawa to court over its failure to implement the Nunavut Land Claim, an accusation that was backed up by a conciliator's report by retired justice Tom Berger.
As well, cancelled national programs such as the $17-million adult literacy programs have a disproportionate effect in the North.
Byers accused Harper and Defence Minister David Emerson of trying to win electoral support by suggesting a crisis in Arctic sovereignty where none exists.
"It is true that governments in different countries, when in elections, tend to push the Arctic sovereignty button," he said. I'm worried that Mr. Emerson and Mr. Harper are doing the same thing right now - ramping up the rhetoric, trying to get people concerned."
At the same time, Byers said Canada has dropped the diplomatic ball on the Arctic.
The Tories have failed to appoint an ambassador to the Arctic Council, a body that brings together all eight Arctic nations. Nor did Canada send its minister of foreign affairs to a recent Arctic summit in Greenland - a meeting that should have been in Canada in the first place, Byers said.
"In Canada, Arctic diplomacy seems to be largely absent."
Harper arrives Tuesday for a three-day visit that will take him from the heart of the Arctic's ever-hopeful energy industry to Tuktoyaktuk on the tip of the Mackenzie Delta to the historic gold rush town of Dawson in the Yukon.
A senior government official said when the visit was announced that it demonstrates the significance Harper places on the North, especially the growing "geopolitical importance" of the melting Northwest Passage. There have been indications from officials that announcements will include one on infrastructure and another that would put "boots on the ground."
N.W.T. Premier Floyd Roland has said he hopes Harper is coming with a promise to build a highway down the Mackenzie Valley corridor.
Others will be looking for an announcement on the proposed $16-billion natural gas pipeline that would carry abundant supplies from the Mackenzie Delta to southern markets and open the entire basin to exploration and development. A possible role for Ottawa in refinancing the project's ballooning budget has been a subject of speculation for months.
Others are hoping for money for a network of Arctic research centres to beef up the one that already exists in Inuvik.
A
aesop081
Guest
Bruce Monkhouse said:
The Danes and Russians plant flags on (our) arctic soil so i would say that Arctic diplomacy is largely absent in those countries too. We say its ours, lets prove it and prove it big.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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a quick google search of Michael Byers, Arctic, north only turns up articles no earlier than 2007, it seems that it only became a real issue for him when he realized it might be a stick to hit Harper with. The man never loses an opportunity to complain.
CDN Aviator said:
We're actually on good terms with the Danes. It's mostly just good natured one-upmanship, and - unless something has gone badly off the rails in the last 16 months I've been gone - was all quietly and diplomatically resolved two years ago. For both of us Hans Island is a very small rock that just signifies larger issues. For us it's all about not setting a precedent of territorial concessions when we have unresolved disputes with the Americans and Russians, and for them its about Copenhagen not appearing to be selling out Greenlanders for convenience.
But it was fun while it lasted. Like recovering the Danish flag from Hans Island, and then mailing it back to their embassy with the note "Is this yours? We found it on Canadian property."
Ahhhh, the memories. I sorta miss the north.
A
aesop081
Guest
T.I.M. said:
I'm well aware of that, having spent a few hours with a Dane MPA crew at an Airshow in Holland. We had a good chat about Hans island.
T.I.M. said:
I dont but the government's new focus on the north means alot more time up there for me.
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Hans Island aside, none of our land in the north is under any dispute. The government's emphasis on a physical military presence on the land really is in many ways indeed grandstanding to a large extent. The real dispute (sea-bed aside) is over the status of the Northwest Passage--and I believe the Canadian Coast Guard, not the Navy, is best placed to assert our claim that it is a sovereign internal waterway (a claim that may be dubious under international law).
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=1c73cfd5-d71b-4b28-8670-43f374e8dc88
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/08/icebreakers-we-should-build.html
Mark
Ottawa
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=1c73cfd5-d71b-4b28-8670-43f374e8dc88
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/08/icebreakers-we-should-build.html
Mark
Ottawa
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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I can imagine that both DND and DFO will be fighting (possibly each other) for additional resources to carry out these plans.
PRIME MINISTER HARPER ANNOUNCES PLAN TO IDENTIFY AND DEFEND NORTHERN RESOURCES
Prime Minister kicks off northern tour by expanding geo-mapping program
August 26, 2008
Ottawa, Ontario
The Canadian Government will use the full tools of modern geological science to encourage economic development and defend Canadian sovereignty throughout the North, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced today.
As Ive said before, use it or lose it is the first principle of sovereignty in the Arctic, said the Prime Minister. To develop the North we must know the North. To protect the North, we must control the North. And to accomplish all our goals for the North, we must be in the North.
The geo-mapping program will combine field research and advanced scientific analysis to provide Canadians with a fuller assessment on the extent of mineral and energy resources in the Canadian North. This information will help generate additional investment and economic development in Canadas Northern communities.
We know from over a century of northern resource exploration that there is gas in the Beaufort, oil in the Eastern Arctic, and gold in the Yukon. There are diamonds in Nunavut and the Northwest Territories, and countless other precious resources buried under the ice, sea and tundra, said the Prime Minister. But what weve found so far is merely the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Managed properly, Canadas share of this incredible endowment will fuel the prosperity of our country for generations. And geo-mapping will pave the way for the resource development of the future.
The geo-mapping announcement is the latest example of the Governments commitment to protecting Canadas North. In the past week, Minister of Defence Peter MacKay has participated in Operation NANOOK, a major Canadian Forces Arctic Defence exercise, and Minister of the Environment John Baird has announced three new National Wildlife Areas on or around Baffin Island. Also this week, Secretary of State for Small Business Diane Ablonczy will also be announcing a major expansion of broadband services throughout the North.
Prime Minister Harper Announces Government of Canada Will Extend Jurisdiction over Arctic Waters
Canadian Environment and Shipping Jurisdiction to be Enforced an Additional 100 Nautical Miles Offshore
August 27, 2008
Tuktoyaktuk, NT
The Government of Canada will extend its jurisdiction in the Arctic by doubling the range at which Canadian environmental laws and shipping regulations will be enforced, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced today.
Whether it is the thawing of the Northwest Passage or the suspected resource riches under the Arctic seabed, more and more countries are taking an interest in the waterways of the Canadian Arctic, said the Prime Minister. We will be sending a clear message to the world that our environmental standards and sovereignty are not up for debate -- if you are in Canadas Arctic you will be playing by Canadas rules.
The Prime Minister announced that his government will be introducing changes to the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act as part of its fall legislative agenda. Currently the Act allows the Canadian Government to regulate all shipping in zones up to 100 nautical miles from the nearest Canadian land in order to guard against pollution of the regions marine and coastal environments. Under the proposed new law, this jurisdiction will be extended to 200 nautical miles.
In addition the Prime Minister announced that his government will establish new regulations under the Canada Shipping Act, 2001 that will require mandatory reporting from all ships destined for Arctic waters within the same 200 nautical mile limit.
As an environmental matter, as a security matter and as an economic matter we are making it perfectly clear that not only do we claim jurisdiction over the Canadian Arctic, we are also going to put the full resources of the Government of Canada behind enforcing that jurisdiction, said the Prime Minister. We are acting today to protect our environment, improve the security of our waterways and ensure that all Northern residents and, in particular, the Inuit have a strong say in the future of our Arctic for generations to come.
PRIME MINISTER HARPER ANNOUNCES PLAN TO IDENTIFY AND DEFEND NORTHERN RESOURCES
Prime Minister kicks off northern tour by expanding geo-mapping program
August 26, 2008
Ottawa, Ontario
The Canadian Government will use the full tools of modern geological science to encourage economic development and defend Canadian sovereignty throughout the North, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced today.
As Ive said before, use it or lose it is the first principle of sovereignty in the Arctic, said the Prime Minister. To develop the North we must know the North. To protect the North, we must control the North. And to accomplish all our goals for the North, we must be in the North.
The geo-mapping program will combine field research and advanced scientific analysis to provide Canadians with a fuller assessment on the extent of mineral and energy resources in the Canadian North. This information will help generate additional investment and economic development in Canadas Northern communities.
We know from over a century of northern resource exploration that there is gas in the Beaufort, oil in the Eastern Arctic, and gold in the Yukon. There are diamonds in Nunavut and the Northwest Territories, and countless other precious resources buried under the ice, sea and tundra, said the Prime Minister. But what weve found so far is merely the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Managed properly, Canadas share of this incredible endowment will fuel the prosperity of our country for generations. And geo-mapping will pave the way for the resource development of the future.
The geo-mapping announcement is the latest example of the Governments commitment to protecting Canadas North. In the past week, Minister of Defence Peter MacKay has participated in Operation NANOOK, a major Canadian Forces Arctic Defence exercise, and Minister of the Environment John Baird has announced three new National Wildlife Areas on or around Baffin Island. Also this week, Secretary of State for Small Business Diane Ablonczy will also be announcing a major expansion of broadband services throughout the North.
Prime Minister Harper Announces Government of Canada Will Extend Jurisdiction over Arctic Waters
Canadian Environment and Shipping Jurisdiction to be Enforced an Additional 100 Nautical Miles Offshore
August 27, 2008
Tuktoyaktuk, NT
The Government of Canada will extend its jurisdiction in the Arctic by doubling the range at which Canadian environmental laws and shipping regulations will be enforced, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced today.
Whether it is the thawing of the Northwest Passage or the suspected resource riches under the Arctic seabed, more and more countries are taking an interest in the waterways of the Canadian Arctic, said the Prime Minister. We will be sending a clear message to the world that our environmental standards and sovereignty are not up for debate -- if you are in Canadas Arctic you will be playing by Canadas rules.
The Prime Minister announced that his government will be introducing changes to the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act as part of its fall legislative agenda. Currently the Act allows the Canadian Government to regulate all shipping in zones up to 100 nautical miles from the nearest Canadian land in order to guard against pollution of the regions marine and coastal environments. Under the proposed new law, this jurisdiction will be extended to 200 nautical miles.
In addition the Prime Minister announced that his government will establish new regulations under the Canada Shipping Act, 2001 that will require mandatory reporting from all ships destined for Arctic waters within the same 200 nautical mile limit.
As an environmental matter, as a security matter and as an economic matter we are making it perfectly clear that not only do we claim jurisdiction over the Canadian Arctic, we are also going to put the full resources of the Government of Canada behind enforcing that jurisdiction, said the Prime Minister. We are acting today to protect our environment, improve the security of our waterways and ensure that all Northern residents and, in particular, the Inuit have a strong say in the future of our Arctic for generations to come.
- Reaction score
- 146
- Points
- 710
The government is turning to the Canadian Coast Guard, in the NORDREG case at least. More on why the CCG should have the lead role in trying to assert our maritime Arctic sovereignty at these Torch posts:
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/07/right-approach-to-arctic-sovereignty.html
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/07/job-for-coast-guard.html
Mark
Ottawa
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/07/right-approach-to-arctic-sovereignty.html
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/07/job-for-coast-guard.html
Mark
Ottawa
For the origin of the oil and gas in the Arctic, something to remember is that 55 million years ago the North Pole was not where it currently is. For various reasons the axis of rotation can suddenly move----in the 1870's or 1880's it moved about 25m. I am not sure how often it does this but over millions of years it can add up to a lot of movement. Since 1935, the "true mean" axis has moved nearly .4 arcseconds=about 40 feet.
http://www.michaelmandeville.com/earthmonitor/polarmotion/plots/polarwander20.htm
Before the Atlantic Ocean opened up about 150 million years ago, Nova Scotia was adjacent to Morocco.
http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es0802/es0802page04.cfm
From
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/13364
"The concept of pole wander and drift was the subject of a scientific research paper in the September-October edition of the Geological Society of America Bulletin.
A geological team led by Princeton University´s Adam Maloof and Galen Halverson of Paul Sabatier University in Toulouse, France, claims that our planet did experience a significant pole rebalancing approximately 800 million years ago.
Part of their research involved testing magnetic minerals within ancient rocks located in the sediment in Norway.
Maloof and Halverson claim that the North Pole has shifted more than 50 degrees (approximately about the distance between the equator and Alaska) in less than 20 million years."
Bearpaw
http://www.michaelmandeville.com/earthmonitor/polarmotion/plots/polarwander20.htm
Before the Atlantic Ocean opened up about 150 million years ago, Nova Scotia was adjacent to Morocco.
http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es0802/es0802page04.cfm
From
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/13364
"The concept of pole wander and drift was the subject of a scientific research paper in the September-October edition of the Geological Society of America Bulletin.
A geological team led by Princeton University´s Adam Maloof and Galen Halverson of Paul Sabatier University in Toulouse, France, claims that our planet did experience a significant pole rebalancing approximately 800 million years ago.
Part of their research involved testing magnetic minerals within ancient rocks located in the sediment in Norway.
Maloof and Halverson claim that the North Pole has shifted more than 50 degrees (approximately about the distance between the equator and Alaska) in less than 20 million years."
Bearpaw
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Bearpaw said:
Don't you remember any of your lessons on Map and Compass? How do you figure out how to set your Magnetic Declination on your compass? You look at your map and find out what year it was printed, what the annual change in Magnetic Declination is, what date it is today and use those figures to calculate what your Magnetic Declination will be to set on your compass. It never clued into you, any of you, that the Poles are moving? How much would they have moved since the Dinosaurs (Not your Instructors) ?
