The Cost Of Treating Troops As Free Labor Providers

[misratah500]

This thread reminds me of the changes in the west coast navy. They took sliders away from us and then switched from modified daily routine 1500 secure to 1545 secure in 2012. It was all optics bullshit that if FMF has to be there till 1600 why aren't we. The rumor was the Public Service complained.

The look on the admirals face at the town hall was priceless when I broke down the extra work time they would get out of us.

Modified Daily Routine 750-1500 with 10 minute stand easy at 1000 and lunch from 1200-1230 which we did for years by the way.

Normal Daily Routine 750-1545 with 10 minute stand easy at 1000, lunch from 1200-1300 and stand easy at 1430 which means an extra 5 minutes of work leaving me on board ship for 45 more minutes and worse traffic going home with the FMF workers and means my son sits in freaking after school care that much longer.

He was stunned and looked at his staff chief and said they would look into this. Of course nothing came of it.

Then they took the blue boat away and short leave at xmas etc etc etc and they wonder why their is a fucking retention problem in the Navy.

How can people in such high positions of power be so ignorant to daily routines on ship.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Well, you're not paying for parking like Hfx and other locales, so it's not all doom and gloom.

 

[PuckChaser]

Then they took the blue boat away and short leave at xmas etc etc etc and they wonder why their is a ******* retention problem in the Navy.

Wait wait wait wait.... you guys don't get 2x short for December and 2x short for January over Christmas?!?! Is that just one ship, west coast Navy, or the whole thing? That's an absolute travesty.

 

[misratah500]

The paid parking I'm sure they're looking at as hard as they can, but their is no precendence in the neighbourhood cause there is no paid parking in Esquimalt besides I think 2 private lots. And it was 2 short for either NY or XMAS and MARPAC hasn't had those in like 3 years. 

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

What's the blue boat?  And what's its relevance?

 

[daftandbarmy]

I think the CAF really should start looking at how we manage people's time more carefully, sure we are paid an annual salary but that's a poor excuse to waste people's time. The infamous 15 minutes early for the 15 minute early timing is a great example. As mentioned earlier it's not necessarily the time wasted at work that is the issue, but the planning to make it happen outside usual hours that is. Or the idea that all members must be in their work place all day whether or not there is actually anything for them to do, on the off chance that someone will call at 1545 with a manual labour job requiring 100+ pers to deal with.

I'm not advocating for short work days all the time, but if we are routinely expecting our people to be at work early, or later than is normal we should also be routinely be sending them home when there is nothing requiring them at work. Sure some guys will spend less hours in the office than others, but that's already happening anyway. Some jobs require a 24/7 presence at work even when nothing happening, but not every sailor needs to be on a ship until 1545 Monday-Friday. Just as I'm sure not every infantry/artillery/armoured soldier needs to be in the hangar or break room until 1600 every day. Maybe more frequent and official early days for most would help compensate for the hours/days/weeks/months spent at sea and in the field away from family better than just $311 a month before taxes and a day off at end ex.

Or just reallocate a few of those sick days so you can pay for all those Bde level exercises...

Public servants ‘gaming the system’ — take twice as many sick days as private sector workers: report

OTTAWA — Canada’s public servants take up to twice the number of sick days a year as private sector workers do, because of different motivations, work cultures and rules that encourage “gaming the system,” says a new report by the Macdonald-Laurier Institute.

Phillip Cross, Statistics Canada’s former chief economic analyst, concludes in the report that the existing sick-leave regime in the federal government should be overhauled because attitudes and cultural practices “rather than biology and medicine” are at the root of the problem.

Cross, who made his name as a straight-shooting analyst, said a “sickness in the system” accounts for why public servants claim 10.5 days a year for illness while private sector employees average 6.4 days. The overall public sector – including education and health care workers – is close to the federal average at 10.6 days a year.

He said differences between the sectors are so significant that working in the public sector itself is a determinant of sick-leave use, rather than exposure to illness or injury.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/public-servants-gaming-the-system-take-twice-as-many-sick-days-as-private-sector-workers-report

 

[Furniture]

What's the blue boat?  And what's its relevance?

It was a shuttle ferry that crossed from the fueling jetty near the PMQs in Colwood to Esquimalt dockyard, it was eliminated because it was against TB rules regarding free transport to and from work. It's closing forced people to drive around the harbour adding 20-60min to the commute to and from work depending on time of year and construction. It ceased at about the time sliders (Friday afternoons off for non essential pers) ended.

It's relevant because parking on base is insufficent for the number of pers and vehicles, so members are forced to be at work extra early just for parking, and to beat traffic which was less of an issue in the days of the blue boat.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It was to good of an idea and someone should have had the balls to tell TB to pound sand.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It was to good of an idea and someone should have had the balls to tell TB to pound sand.

You could apply that statment to alot of things that have be instituted over the last 5-10 years.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

It was a shuttle ferry that crossed from the fueling jetty near the PMQs in Colwood to Esquimalt dockyard, it was eliminated because it was against TB rules regarding free transport to and from work. It's closing forced people to drive around the harbour adding 20-60min to the commute to and from work depending on time of year and construction. It ceased at about the time sliders (Friday afternoons off for non essential pers) ended.

It's relevant because parking on base is insufficent for the number of pers and vehicles, so members are forced to be at work extra early just for parking, and to beat traffic which was less of an issue in the days of the blue boat.

Thank you.

 

[Pusser]

It was a shuttle ferry that crossed from the fueling jetty near the PMQs in Colwood to Esquimalt dockyard, it was eliminated because it was against TB rules regarding free transport to and from work. It's closing forced people to drive around the harbour adding 20-60min to the commute to and from work depending on time of year and construction. It ceased at about the time sliders (Friday afternoons off for non essential pers) ended.

It's relevant because parking on base is insufficent for the number of pers and vehicles, so members are forced to be at work extra early just for parking, and to beat traffic which was less of an issue in the days of the blue boat.

To put things a little bit more into perspective, the blue boats on both coasts were put into place when the majority of married sailors lived either in Shannon Park (East Coast) or Belmont Park (West Coast).  Very few of these sailors owned cars and the two married quarters areas were isolated by the standards of the day (we're talking about the 1950s).  There was also little to no public transportation available then.  The blue boats were a necessary item then.  Fast forward 50 years and sailors are much better paid and the majority no longer live in married quarters.  Notwithstanding that the blue boats had long since outlived their purpose when they were retired, one of the main reasons they were stopped is that the boats themselves were old and beyond their life expectancy.  The Navy actually looked into replacing them, but the cost of doing so was prohibitive, especially when considered with the other factors.

As an aside, TB policy still entitles members posted to certain locations (generally isolated with no access to public transportation) to Commuting Assistance to/from the nearest suitable residential community.  This can take the form of either a mileage allowance or the provision of transportation.  The blue boats met this requirement in 1950 for members living in Shannon/Belmont Park - not so much in 2015.  If anything, the blue boats lasted a lot longer than they should have. 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

There was also blue boat service in Halifax, between the PMQ's at Shannon Park, the Annex and the QHM jetty in the Dockyard. Same reason for existing, and I guess for terminating (if it has been terminated, which I don't know but suspect if based on the same TB rules).

For those who wonder, they were referred to as "blue" boats because they wore the CFAV's darker grey paint scheme, which had a strangely bluish tint (just like our ship side grey has a greenish tint which is perfect daytime camouflage in the fog banks found most of the year on our coasts). 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Short leave is at the CO's prerogative is it not?  Is there a MARPACORD that says "no CO shall grant short leave"?

 

[medicineman]

Last I looked there wasn't...however my guess is that this ensures everyone takes their leave allotments and nobody has leftovers that have to be explained away to higher HQ and paid out.  Also, as has been noted elsewhere, many folks feel that their short and special days are entitlements vice earned rewads at CO's discretion.  I FEEL it's done to prove a point...just MHO though.

MM

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

The CO can give 2 short per month. That's why on a Xmas leave pass you'll often see 2 short in Dec and 2 short in Jan

 

[medicineman]

The CO can give 2 short per month. That's why on a Xmas leave pass you'll often see 2 short in Dec and 2 short in Jan

Operative word is "can"...doesn't mean they have to. 

MM

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Last I looked there wasn't...however my guess is that this ensures everyone takes their leave allotments and nobody has leftovers that have to be explained away to higher HQ and paid out.  MM

I have a bit of an issue with this though; coming from a unit that has a pretty steady op tempo, sometimes mbr's haven't burned much leave because they've been away, or tasked, or critical to ops and of no fault of their own.  Then, when Xmas leave rolls around, they are not given the Shorts that everyone who has min Ann leave days left to burn 'so no one has to sign off on the Accum days".  So in essence the people who are working the most, and NOT able to use their vacation days, get screwed of out Short days - but IAW my understanding of the intent of Short days, they are the people the CO should see as most deserving.  rly:

 

[daftandbarmy]

I have a bit of an issue with this though; coming from a unit that has a pretty steady op tempo, sometimes mbr's haven't burned much leave because they've been away, or tasked, or critical to ops and of no fault of their own.  Then, when Xmas leave rolls around, they are not given the Shorts that everyone who has min Ann leave days left to burn 'so no one has to sign off on the Accum days".  So in essence the people who are working the most, and NOT able to use their vacation days, get screwed of out Short days - but IAW my understanding of the intent of Short days, they are the people the CO should see as most deserving.  rly:

Is there a role there for a diligent Adjt/CWO/MWO network that tracks and advocates for these kinds of things?

As I recall, my CSMs and CCs were pretty good at telling me what leave passes to sign and when etc in the best 'Radar O'Reilly' fashion...

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I have a bit of an issue with this though; coming from a unit that has a pretty steady op tempo, sometimes mbr's haven't burned much leave because they've been away, or tasked, or critical to ops and of no fault of their own.  Then, when Xmas leave rolls around, they are not given the Shorts that everyone who has min Ann leave days left to burn 'so no one has to sign off on the Accum days".  So in essence the people who are working the most, and NOT able to use their vacation days, get screwed of out Short days - but IAW my understanding of the intent of Short days, they are the people the CO should see as most deserving.  rly:

I've seen that for March break where some guys have enough annual to cover it while others that are short 2 days get the 2 day short to make up the shortfall.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Is there a role there for a diligent Adjt/CWO/MWO network that tracks and advocates for these kinds of things?

As I recall, my CSMs and CCs were pretty good at telling me what leave passes to sign and when etc in the best 'Radar O'Reilly' fashion...

There is 'system; it runs similar to but different from an Army unit though;  I don't know the details about 'who' said "no short if over XX days Ann left", but I know its happening. 

Sqn's are different beats with their pro's, and with their con's.  This is one of the con's.