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The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

brihard

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Agreed. But I think if the CPC wins convincingly it may also spell the end of the more extreme SoCon element of the CPC. The big tent may be getting smaller as the CPC move to appeal to centrists.
Yup. There will always be a fringe, some of it of a lunatic bent. Right now a few disparate fringe elements have gravitated to the PPC because… I don’t know, a combination of realizing mainstream politics doesn’t want or need them, and Bernier’s fading but lingering name recognition? Anyway, CPC have gotten the pressure release valve that they’ve needed to shed some baggage and to become an electorally viable contender again, and O’Toole as a leader is capable of guiding transition and pulling votes from the centre instead of the extremes- better than I had anticipated, frankly. I was on team MacKay but I’m happy with how O’Toole is doing things. It’s healthy for the CPC and it’s healthy for Canada.

For gun owners, it’s the best electoral option that could actually bear real fruit.it will not represent an ideal outcome, but there is no ideal outcome that would actually be a thing.
 

Haggis

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For gun owners, it’s the best electoral option that could actually bear real fruit.it will not represent an ideal outcome, but there is no ideal outcome that would actually be a thing.
Brihard, while I will admit to an initial flash of panic at O'Toole's announcement today, on reflection I see it as a masterstroke. He has taken the wind out of the LPC's sails. He can now say he shares a common goal with Trudeau, public safety. Then the paths diverge towards the LPC's focus on the low hanging fruit of legal guns and licensed owners and the CPC's focus on the harder long game of illegal guns and criminals. Despite his statement that the OIC will remain in force (for now), he has given himself the soft landing of instituting a simplified classification system which will then nullify some if not all of the OIC.

All of that takes time, particularly if he wants to do it right. Anyone who thought a CPC win would have ARs back on the range by Sept 21st is delusional.
 
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RangerRay

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Unfortunately, there’s two maxims in politics that apply here: 1) Symbols matter and 2) If you’re explaining, you’re losing. If O’Toole has to explain the intricacies of the OIC and the original assault weapons ban, he is going to lose people he needs to win (I.e. suburban women) who view guns as an existential threat to their family’s well being. I don’t like it, but them’s the breaks. 🤷‍♂️
 

Fishbone Jones

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O'Toole is playing the long game. He's nullified trudeau's attack. He left himself an out. He has parried, every stroke, poke and slash from the socialists. Trudeau on the other hand, is dehydrating his message(s) spitballing at any and every thing he thinks he can use as a wedge. Everytime trudeau thinks he has a gotcha, before he can repeat it O'Toole has already out maneuvered him. Singh has been steering clear. Nobody cares about the Bloc and Greens. However, watch for the PPC to go full apeshit on this. They are almost giving trudeau a pass, their real enemy is the CPC. They are playing just as dirty, or worse, than the grits.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Unfortunately, there’s two maxims in politics that apply here: 1) Symbols matter and 2) If you’re explaining, you’re losing. If O’Toole has to explain the intricacies of the OIC and the original assault weapons ban, he is going to lose people he needs to win (I.e. suburban women) who view guns as an existential threat to their family’s well being. I don’t like it, but them’s the breaks. 🤷‍♂️
But he's not really explaining anything. He's correcting trudeau. I'll paraphrase what he said today. "I'll uphold the assault gun ban of 1977, I'll uphold the OIC instituted by this government. We'll strike a committee to look at the classification system." The difference between the two is the over the top emotion, misinformation and theatrical rhetoric of the grits and the plain language, knowledgeable, business like tone of reason of the CPC.

" The facts ma'am, just the facts."
Sgt Joe Friday, Detective
LAPD
 

ballz

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The good news is that even if the CPC gets a minority government, they do not have to go to Parliament to reverse the recent legislation by the Liberals.
To reverse the OIC, no. (Unless the federal court beats them to it, leaving nothing to reverse.🤞) Reversing C-71 will be a whole other story and a bigger fight. I wouldn't be surprised if the opposition turned that into a confidence vote.

They would have to go to Parliament.

The executive government always had the authority to re-classify firearms. It happened under PM Martin in 2014 when they turned a bunch of owners of the CZ858 and Swiss Arms Classic Green models into prohibited. Sure it was the RCMP that did it but anything the RCMP can do can be done by OIC. SWISS ARMS AND CZ RECLASSIFIED - Calibremag.ca

Then PM Harper reversed it, and the Liberals took note. Bill C-71 gives the executive government the authority to reclassify firearms in one direction... from Non-restricted ---> Restricted ---> Prohibited. It took away their authority to go in the other direction, Prohibited ---> Restricted ---> Non-restricted.

It was drafted this way on purpose to ensure the next government didn't just reverse it.

The only way to reclassify an AR back to restricted or (God willing) non-restricted is to amend the legislation, (or repeal it), or in other words, go to Parliament.
 

Remius

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Essentially we need a cpc majority for that as I doubt the ndp or BQ would back them up
That’s a good point. I can’t see them get a majority at this point but it could happen. But they might propose it early enough for the other parties to avoid another election on that issue. Those parties could be absent for that vote.
 

Colin Parkinson

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They would have to go to Parliament.

The executive government always had the authority to re-classify firearms. It happened under PM Martin in 2014 when they turned a bunch of owners of the CZ858 and Swiss Arms Classic Green models into prohibited. Sure it was the RCMP that did it but anything the RCMP can do can be done by OIC. SWISS ARMS AND CZ RECLASSIFIED - Calibremag.ca

Then PM Harper reversed it, and the Liberals took note. Bill C-71 gives the executive government the authority to reclassify firearms in one direction... from Non-restricted ---> Restricted ---> Prohibited. It took away their authority to go in the other direction, Prohibited ---> Restricted ---> Non-restricted.

It was drafted this way on purpose to ensure the next government didn't just reverse it.

The only way to reclassify an AR back to restricted or (God willing) non-restricted is to amend the legislation, (or repeal it), or in other words, go to Parliament.
The current OIC can be rescinded, but the Act can't be changed without going to Parliament.
 

brihard

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Remember, the OIC is also the subject of ongoing federal court challenges. It may be overturned no matter who forms the next government.
Unlikely. There was nothing legally exceptional in what they did last year. They merry exercised - albeit quite broadly - powers explicitly provided for in legislation for years now, and which have been used plenty of times before. The OIC was not legally improper; Parliament chose to set that mechanism up that way, and courts will generally show considerable deference to the will of Parliament.
 

Remius

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Brihard, while I will admit to an initial flash of panic at O'Toole's announcement today, on reflection I see it as a masterstroke. He has taken the wind out of the LPC's sails. He can now say he shares a common goal with Trudeau, public safety. Then the paths diverge towards the LPC's focus on the low hanging fruit of legal guns and licensed owners and the CPC's focus on the harder long game of illegal guns and criminals. Despite his statement that the OIC will remain in force (for now), he has given himself the soft landing of instituting a simplified classification system which will then nullify some if not all of the OIC.

All of that takes time, particularly if he wants to do it right. Anyone who thought a CPC win would have ARs back on the range by Sept 21st is delusional.
I thought I agreed to an extent. But more and more this may be the first misstep of his otherwise solid campaign. He wasn’t clear during the debate, then made an attempt to clear it up but then completely contradicted his own platform document. This may be the thing some will pounce on. I think he’s on damage control mode but has ample time for Thursday’s debate to prepare as it will inevitably come up.
 

Haggis

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I think he’s on damage control mode but has ample time for Thursday’s debate to prepare as it will inevitably come up.
I don't think the damage is that severe. If he sticks consistently to his position and highlights the differences between his approach of targeting criminals versus the LPC targeting lawful owners, he can recover.
 

Remius

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I don't think the damage is that severe. If he sticks consistently to his position and highlights the differences between his approach of targeting criminals versus the LPC targeting lawful owners, he can recover.
Agreed. It’s not. Just that it was his first misstep I think. I’m certain that the “hidden agenda” attack will appear and this will be used as an example. The key is to stay on topic with his message and not get pulled in.
 

Haggis

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In a very bold move yesterday in the home of anti-gun activism in Canada, the Québec government has allotted $90M to combat illegal guns, gangs and smuggling through the creation of a multijurisdictional task force of municipal and provincial police to work with the RCMP, CBSA and US DHS. Not a single mention of further restrictions on lawful gun ownership or licensed owners in that province.

Until the "usual suspects" start their letter writing campaigns and the focus is re-directed - with federal money - to fulfil the Trudeau Liberal's campaign promises of no legal guns in Canada.
 
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