The Politics of Yellow Ribbons - MERGED

[Sarge CD]

Sent an e-mail to the Mayor as well as my councillor.  ,    Support our Troops

 

[formerarmybrat23]

I have also just sent a letter to the mayor. I am not much for words ( i find it hard to organize all my thoughts) but my point was made.  I ended with "i hope you recieve 1000's more letters just like mine" thats all we can do I guess. I get so tired of a loud mouth few, that somehow manage to control and wreck things for the rest of us.  argh

 

[Greymatters]

Bloody shameful!  Its city employees supporting federal employees and with a very limited political flavour...

 

[mzona]

Yea, except that the politicians don't have to be impartial. That being said, I don't see how these ribbons display any partiality whatsoever.  What about religious signs? Would a Christian policeman who wears a cross be more impartial towards a Muslim suspect then those who don't wear corsses? If he was to be impartial towards a Muslim, it's purely because of his personal convictions, and definitely not because of the cross he wears. Now, I'm talking a bit out of my butt [i.e. I don't know if police officers are allowed to wear crosses], in case the policemen arenT' allowed to wear them, I bet the Sikhs can still wear kirpans [they can't prohibit that] anyways, so take whichever example you please.

Obviously as a human, you can't be 100% impartial, but let's see what the sign stands for. Supporting Canadian troops in Afghanistan means above all adhering to Canadian values such as equitable judicial system and public officer impartiality certainly isn't one of them. It's thus an impartial display of support. THEREFORE THIS SIGN IS NOT INCOMPATIBLE WITH POLICE IMPARTIALITY.

Now you, Toronto people, are so offended, but imagine police cars had ribbons that said "I love the Canadian Forces". Now THAT would show favoritism and impartiality, because instead of a sign of support of an international mission that demonstrates true Canadian values, it would show an unjust sympathy towards a federal institution and it would be totally incompatible with the notion of impartiality.

I think it's fine the way it is.

 

[observor 69]

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/227299

Troop decal spat hits city hall
TheStar.com - News - Troop decal spat hits city hall

Councillors divided about political nature of decals on fire trucks and ambulances

June 20, 2007
Donovan Vincent
City hall bureau

It started with good intentions.

But the ribbon-shaped decals on fire and ambulance vehicles showing support for Canadian troops created a firestorm of controversy at city hall yesterday.

"Leave things the way they are. Leave the ribbons," Councillor Frances Nunziata told reporters yesterday after making a motion that council extend the one-year use of the decals, which is supposed to end in September.

Nunziata said she's received calls from concerned veterans. Her motion is to be dealt with today.

But Mayor David Miller, whose uncle served in the Royal Navy during World War II, said the issue is not as simple as Nunziata suggests; for many the ribbon is a symbol of a "very controversial" military operation going on in Afghanistan that has no place on city vehicles.

"There are calls from people saying, `Why are you expressing support for war in Afghanistan?''' he said, adding he wasn't made aware ahead of time that the decals would appear on city vehicles.

Many think the ribbons should stay on as long as troops remain in Afghanistan.

Fire Chief Bill Stewart and Emergency Medical Service (EMS) Chief Bruce Farr say the ribbons – some yellow, some red and white – that began appearing on ambulances last fall and fire trucks shortly after, were intended to support Canadian forces everywhere. Plans were to phase them out gradually beginning Sept. 4.

EMS paid for them from taxpayer funds, about $3,000 for roughly 170 vehicles. The fire department used roughly the same amount in union funds. Proceeds go to a fund for Canadian soldiers and their families.

"I think it's important to give gestures of support for our troops, but it's also appropriate to say we're doing something for a year," Miller said, adding he doesn't believe there was a breach of protocol.

Some councillors, such as David Shiner and Karen Stintz, wondered why a "political campaign" like Miller's push for one cent of the GST– including lapel pins, posters and ads on TTC property – is allowed to go ahead, while the ribbon campaign is ending.

Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone said the One Cent Now campaign has a direct link to transit funding, which will benefit the city.

When the issue bubbled up yesterday, city manager Shirley Hoy held an impromptu meeting with Farr and Stewart to deal with the fallout. The chiefs said they alone made the decision to allow the decals – and the decision to limit them to one year. Both say they've heard mixed views on the issue.

"Some say leave (the decals) on forever, others say get them off, (because) they have no place on a municipally owned and operated vehicle," Farr said.

Some councillors complained to Hoy soon after the ribbons first appeared. In response to her queries, she received a memo in May explaining the decals would be phased out as vehicles come in for maintenance, she said.

Councillor Janet Davis said she was among those who had voiced opposition to the decals.

"I don't think we should be using city facilities or vehicles for promoting political messages about matters that fall outside the city's jurisdiction, particularly if they're contentious," she said. She added that personally she supports Canada's troops. Scott Marks, president of the Toronto Professional Fire Fighters' Association, said his union sees the decals as a "non-political gesture'' and hopes Nunziata's motion is approved.

 

[MarkOttawa]

This link has audio of an interview this morning by Steve Madely of CFRA, Ottawa, with Toronto city councilor Frances Nunziata, who opposes the mayor's move.
http://www.cfra.com/chum_audio/Frances_Nunziata_June20.mp3

This link gives the e-mail addresses of the mayor and the councillor should you wish to express your views to them.
http://www.cfra.com/interviews/index.asp

Mr Madely is suggesting to his listeners that they should refrain from visiting the Big Smoke if the mayor succeeds in having the decals removed from city vehicles.

And a CFRA poll at this link:
http://www.cfra.com/headlines/index.asp

"Despite complaints it's an insult to Cdn soldiers,Toronto's mayor supports plans to remove "Support Our Troops" decals from fire trucks & ambulances,saying it can be seen as an endorsement of the war in Afghanistan. Ottawa fire trucks still have the decals. Should decals stay on Ottawa fire trucks & be allowed on police cars & ambulances?"

Listen live to Lowell Green on CFRA from 0900 1200 Eastern--he's sure to deal with this:
http://www.cfra.com/listen/index.asp

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Two good pieces (Lowell Green is doing this issue, huge listener response--CD of show will be sent to Mayor Miller):

Toronto Mayor treads recklessly
John Ivison, National Post
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/canada/story.html?id=61367361-4ed0-4058-881d-65560e6cc704

As Toronto councillors discussed yesterday whether to overturn a decision to remove the Support Our Troops bumper stickers from city fire trucks and ambulances, 50 kilometres eastward along Highway 401 mourners prepared for the funeral of Trooper Darryl Caswell in Bowmanville today.

Perhaps Mayor David Miller should take time out to explain to the family of Trooper Caswell, who was killed in Afghanistan last week, why he supports not only the removal of the decals but the early withdrawal of Canadian Forces from Afghanistan [emphasis added].

On reflection, judging by the reaction of one soldier I spoke to yesterday, Mayor Miller would be well advised to steer clear of any military gatherings for some time to come. "We're simply appalled that the leadership of the city regards these things as political," said one soldier, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor also called on Mayor Miller to reconsider his position: "The 'Support Our Troops' campaign is a fantastic way for Canadians to show their appreciation for the brave men and women of the Canadian Forces. We hope the Mayor and the City of Toronto will extend this valuable and highly visible program," he said yesterday.

There was a lot of blather in Toronto that the decision to remove the decals had come from the fire and EMS chiefs and that the program was always intended to end this fall. But a chat with Fire Chief Bill Stewart, a former reservist, makes clear that this is a political decision and that firefighters across Toronto will be as appalled as the soldiers.

Mayor Miller has made this a political debate by publicly backing the removal of the bumper stickers, while calling for the withdrawal of troops as soon as possible. "The yellow ribbon ... means support for our troops. To some people it's a symbol of support for the war in Afghanistan," he said yesterday.

These are strange days, indeed. Mayor Miller raised the Rainbow flag to kick off Gay Pride week in Toronto on Monday. It used to be that politicians would back the fight against men who behead teachers and keep their distance from a celebration themed "Men Enjoying Nudity." No longer it seems.

The worry is that the decal controversy is not an isolated incident. Anti-war protesters have launched a letter-writing campaign in Quebec aimed at discouraging soldiers from the Royal 22 Regiment, the Van Doos, from deploying to Afghanistan.

"Your deployment in Afghanistan means complicity with the civilian deaths and other activities -- like the transfer of prisoners to potential torture and death -- that are tantamount to war crimes," says the letter, which was sent to 3,000 people living near the Valcartier base by a group called the Quebec Coalition for Peace...

Councillors, let's not kid the troops
Lorrie Goldstein, Toronto Sun
http://www.torontosun.com/Comment/Commentary/2007/06/20/4275031.html

So apparently everyone on Toronto City Council from Mayor David Miller on down supports our troops serving in Afghanistan. Terrific.

But when the issue comes before council today, the majority is expected to vote to remove the "Support our Troops" decals now on city emergency vehicles, starting in September.

That, amid all the political posturing going on yesterday after the Sun's Joe Warmington accurately reported the decals were coming off in September, and it likely had something to do with the left-wing groupthink that dominates at City Hall, is all you need to know.

Because if this council truly supported our troops, here's what it would do today. It would vote unanimously to keep those decals on all city emergency vehicles until the last Canadian soldier serving in Afghanistan comes home. That would be showing unqualified support for our troops.

Council Speaker Sandra Bussin, reading a statement from top city staff labelling Warmington's scoop "erroneous," insisted yesterday no one "ordered" the decals removed.

Rather, we're told, however the decals got onto the vehicles in the first place -- and yesterday Fire Chief Bill Stewart and ambulance Chief Bruce Farr, looking, as one councillor observed, "extremely uncomfortable," said they sanctioned the yellow ribbon campaign -- the program was always "time-limited."

Of course, if that's the case, then this plan to support our troops made absolutely no sense from its inception. How do you put a "time limit" on a campaign to support our troops serving abroad, especially in Afghanistan, from the moment you start it?

What kind of "support" is that? Is it, like: "Hey folks, we support the great work you're doing, but strictly on a time-limited basis until next September, when our trucks start coming in for routine maintenance?" C'mon.

The reason this council will not stand up today and unanimously declare its unqualified support for our soldiers in Afghanistan by instructing that the "Support Our Troops" decals remain on city emergency vehicles until their mission is completed, is that it would be totally out of character for the left-leaning, painfully politically correct majority who control it. End of story. End of discussion.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Mike Baker]

There is now one of those petitions online about this, here is the link.

 

[Old Sweat]

I sent an email to the mayor informing him that if the decision to remove the decals was not overturned, I would both boycott Toronto and advise anyone that asked not to travel to the city. As I was not in a very good mood, I added that this was not a difficult decision to make, as Toronto was becoming a less and less desirable destination, because of the crime, panhandling and filth.

The email was also sent to the tourism and convention bureau.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I posted a link to the petition on Canadiangunnutz, that should help.

 

[Greymatters]

I dont think the signatures will be of any value unless you are a resident of Toronto?

 

[Mike Baker]

I dont think the signatures will be of any value unless you are a resident of Toronto?

Still, it dosn't matter.

 

[Munxcub]

I don't think online petitions do anything anyway, no real signatures. Basically just shows support for something, sort of like a poll I guess.

 

[ArmyRick]

I think the very thought that people are protesting the use of a sticker that represents a nation standing behind the troops is sickening.

This is a bunch of loser idiots just looking to make a name for themselves. SUPPORT THE TROOPS!

60 Canadian Souls should be enough of a one sided argument to LET all Canadians put up the stickers. 

Enough of this impartiality BS!

 

[mzona]

why are you people so pissed? As I said, these ribbons don't affect impartiality whatsoever, they promote Canadian values. Is it so crazy to place a sign that our government supports canadian involvement in Afghanistan, made as an expression of Canadian values? Now for the vets, they're not forgotten, we honor them on the Remembrance day, but it doesn't mean that we can't support the soldiers that are currently fighting. I don't see anything wrong with it. So I join ArmyRick in disapproval.

 

[Teflon]

I don't think online petitions do anything anyway, no real signatures. Basically just shows support for something, sort of like a poll I guess.

Kind of like the stickers / magnets - It's all about the support

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I see WOW is putting up stickers on telephone poles telling people to resist the war, as a good citizen I removed the sticker defacing city property.

 

[medaid]

Colin where'd you see that? I think I should join you on a sticker hunt! Maybe that can be an activity at the Vancouver M&G? The most stickers collected wins something I don't know... something cool Like the Team Canada hat Farmboy's got made up  ;D

 

[Munxcub]

Kind of like the stickers / magnets - It's all about the support

No doubt, I was just saying that people shouldn't expect an online petition to achieve anything. (Other then the show of support, etc...) I've got my magnet on my car and have been flipped off at least once that I've seen for having it. (jerk wouldn't let me merge in either... what a jerk...)

I can see where they are coming from in having these removed, vocal minority/squeeky wheel BS... I still think it's weak as hell though...

 

[ArmyRick]

This si the email i sent to Mayor Miller
"Sir, 60 Canadians have been killed in Afghanistan serving our country. I urge you to allow any Canadian serving in your staff or your services to put up the stickers. What is so impartial about supporting those who support the soldiers, who lives have been and will continue to be in harms way. Those who protest in any way the use of these stickers on government vehicles are actually hiding their true agenda, to smear the Harper government in any way they can. This is not one issue to use as a political football match.



Also, if you need more convincing, I ask you or any of your staff to attend a military funeral of a soldier who has been killed in the line of duty in Afghanistan. Maybe then this whole debate will end, its pretty straight forward. May our nation bless all those who serve our country.



Thank you for reading this, ....."