The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Rifleman62]

My .02 is that it is ALL political. This govt , the PM, doesn't give a shit what's good for its citizens, nor the CF. It's all about what's good for them, remain in power. If the aircraft is made /or assembled in Quebec, it will be a go to. History proves that.

Where is the $600 Billion in unaccounted spending?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

shouldn’t, or can’t…??

There’s a lot of taxpayer dollars going to them, and their ability to complete work according to timelines has a direct affect on national security and our ability to deploy aircraft.

I’m curious. As I’m sure others are too.

Most people aren’t privy to the status of fleets like the Aurora outside of what is released for public consumption. Current work has me visiting 6 Hgr YHZ on occasion and I’d prefer to NOT end up in the Sqn Boss’s office for bad reasons.

 

[Rifleman62]

A reminder:

Nimble, sleek, and almost useless in a real fight; the story of the Canadair CF-5 Freedom Fighter - May 8, 2021

 

[calculus]

Some good points made here: Didn’t Expect That! - Billie Flynn - My Blog

Understood the author is somewhat biased in favour of F35, but nevertheless, he makes some excellent points, especially with regards to the long-term economic impact of the two competing programs (F35 vs. Gripen).

 

[dapaterson]

and I’d prefer to NOT end up in the Sqn Boss’s office for bad reasons.

...again...

 

[kev994]

My .02 is that it is ALL political. This govt , the PM, doesn't give a shit what's good for its citizens, nor the CF. It's all about what's good for them, remain in power. If the aircraft is made /or assembled in Quebec, it will be a go to. History proves that.

Where is the $600 Billion in unaccounted spending?

Come on, he’s not all about himself. He funnels some cash over to his family friends too.

 

[suffolkowner]

It seems like there's a bit of wiggle room in the way this project is moving forward. I would have thought the process would be a lot more rigid.

"Over the coming weeks, Canada will finalize next steps for the process, which, based on further analysis of the 2 remaining bids, could involve proceeding to final negotiations with the top-ranked bidder or entering into a competitive dialogue, whereby the 2 remaining bidders would be provided with an opportunity to improve their proposals."

Government of Canada announces key milestone in process to replace Canada’s fighter jets - Canada.ca

As part of its defence policy, Strong, Secure, Engaged, the Government of Canada is acquiring 88 advanced fighter jets for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) through a competitive process that will ensure the requirements of the RCAF are met while ensuring best value for Canadians.

www.canada.ca

I am hoping that they proceed with the final negotiations for the F35 and move this thing along. I would still love to see how the two offers ended up being scored

 

[MilEME09]

If Saab wins, they will be built in nova Scotia. If the F35 wins we will build various components for decades. Only way I see the benefit for Saab, is if they make canada a manufacturing center for the company and generate additional orders to be built by us.

Also the question is with Saab, do we get the E/F model or will it be a Hybrid of the E/F and the maritime? (Reinforced landing gear, arrestor hook)

 

[Dale Denton]

Serious question. Would keeping the CDN Grippen plant open be a good idea long-term???

My assumptions for arguments sake:
On one hand, we get the ability to produce and maintain our own fighters, a key strategic capability that's new. If we go F-35 and WW3 kicks off we'd be sharing a production line with many other partners, similar to the vaccine situation? How many planes could the F-35 plant really shove out for every partner in wartime?

Downside is that every gov't would be forced into buying more CDN Grippens after every order is almost complete, to avoid being the ones to 'close the plant'. No gov't would want be have the comparison to the Avro Arrow cancellation (regardless of practicality or cost). I'm thinking of GDLS-C, would we ever not buy a LAV or whatever to keep that plant open?

So do we work with the Saab plant like the NSS/GDLS-C; work as efficient enough to keep paychecks coming for as long as possible? Build 88 planes in 10ish years, then in the 2030s be forced to buy into a new Saab project or build another couple blocks of Grippens? Is having a larger fleet of Grippens better than F-35s? But, do we really want to push away from the US in yet another way, or would they be ok with us having a larger 120+ fleet of Grippens and be happy that we have more for NORAD duties or stationing abroad?

----------------------------

Senior Executive Vice President and head of SAAB Aeronautics, Lennart Sindahl, talks to Georg Mader for Defence IQ about the company’s activities in the fighter domain and beyond…
Source (from 2015)

LS: One of the ideas, once we have that F-model – and I can say this without ‘disclosing’ anything – is that the future market will need a dedicated electronic-attack version...

DIQ: Ah, you mean a‘Growler Gripen’, with pods, and full of humps and blades.

LS (laughing): Yes, exactly.If you look into future combat scenarios, if you have a highend air force with a broad threat situation, such as the ‘GG’ as you called it, would make a real difference. That‘s what we’re looking into and that’s why it’s so good to have Brazil on board with the Fmodel.

 

[MilEME09]

Could Canada then gain an EW Gripen? Is that a capability the RCAF would want to add?

There is also the possibility we could enter into the R&D front with Saab

 

[suffolkowner]

The Weight of Evidence: Norwegian Defence Budget and F-35 Costings

This article examines the cost of the F35A from Norwegian budget in relation to the ongoing competition in Finland.

 

[KevinB]

The Weight of Evidence: Norwegian Defence Budget and F-35 Costings

This article examines the cost of the F35A from Norwegian budget in relation to the ongoing competition in Finland.

Everyone 'makes' Norway pay more for stuff as they have Oil money and tend not to negotiate aggressively.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Everyone 'makes' Norway pay more for stuff as they have Oil money and tend not to negotiate aggressively.

Canada just entered the chat…

 

[Quirky]

Only thing the Gripen will be good for is softening the battlefield by emptying the enemy of missile stocks. We would be better off converting them to UAVs.

I wonder where our CF-18s will be sold off to. AirUSA?

 

[MilEME09]

Only thing the Gripen will be good for is softening the battlefield by emptying the enemy of missile stocks. We would be better off converting them to UAVs.

I wonder where our CF-18s will be sold off to. AirUSA?

Given the Gripen E is bring pitched as a solution to A2AD networks. That statement is likely far from the truth.

Gripen E-series | Saab

Gripen E-series is a true swing-role fighter with outstanding capabilities. The fighter is developed to counter and defeat the most advanced threats in a modern battlespace and to continuously evolve in order to keep up with new challenges.

www.saab.com

 

[armrdsoul77]

Saab Considers Unmanned Gripen Development Plan

 

[Eye In The Sky]

But, do we really want to push away from the US in yet another way, or would they be ok with us having a larger 120+ fleet of Grippens and be happy that we have more for NORAD duties or stationing abroad?

They’d probably pause and think of our submarines (old and under-weaponed), MPAs (old and under-weaponed), inability to really sustain our rather small navy at sea ourselves and say “really surprised they bought anything new!”.

Then, they’d sit back and watch to see if the procurement went the way of the Cyclone. Someone might even start a betting pool…

Oh wait. That would be CAF members.

 

[MilEME09]

Oh wait. That would be CAF members.

$50 on Boeing lawsuit causes procurement reset

 

[kev994]

They’d probably pause and think of our submarines (old and under-weaponed), MPAs (old and under-weaponed), inability to really sustain our rather small navy at sea ourselves and say “really surprised they bought anything new!”.

Then, they’d sit back and watch to see if the procurement went the way of the Cyclone. Someone might even start a betting pool…

Oh wait. That would be CAF members.

Don’t forget the old hornets that we just bought and apparently don’t even have anyone to staff them.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Don’t forget the old hornets that we just bought and apparently don’t even have anyone to staff them.

It's all part of our new, secret AI program: 'Disloyal' wingman