The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[KevinB]

You obviously haven't met the United States Military Industrial Complex.

Well to be fair small items like infantry rifles etc are left to a bunch of Col’s to roll the chicken bones to determine a winner.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Devil's Advocate:

Sweden has announced earlier this week that it intends to purchase new frigates, 4 of them. They plan to make a decision by early next year and intend to stress 'anti-air warfare capabilities'. They 'hope' to have 2 by 2030 and the last 2 by 2035 - pipe dreams to have 2 ships delivered by 2030 when you're 'hoping' to make a decision by early 2026.

Now hear me out. What are the chances of us cutting a deal with the Swedes similar to what the Brits just cut with the Norwegians with the Type 26, where the Norwegians 'take' one of the Brits timeslots for the initial delivery and then the rest are staggered into the production run? The key to all of this would be the ability of Irving (or Davie takes on this production) to ramp up their delivery timelines much much quicker in order to make our and the Swedes needs.

The Swedes might very well purchase the CMS330 capabilities and not use Aegis at all in their version of the River Class.

All of these just might be part of the grand strategy between Canada and Sweden that is under discussion.

The article only mentions French and Spanish possible options for the Swedes. The River's might be too large for them but its an unknown.

Swedish Navy To Acquire Frigates, Its Biggest Surface Combatants In Nearly 50 Years

Swedish Navy To Acquire Frigates, Its Biggest Surface Combatants In Nearly 50 Years​

 

[Good2Golf]

Rafale would have to turn over lots of IP to meet NORAD compatibility.

I don’t believe that. Rafale M is the only non-US fighter to integrate and operate from a Nimitz-class CVN, George H.W. Bush (CVN-77) to be precise…

We need to stay in the F35 deal to maintain the related contracts we have.

Alan Williams, ADM(Mat) back when he signed Canada in to the JSF Program, he was clear that Canada would participate in manufacture, whether it actually bought airframes or not.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Now hear me out. What are the chances of us cutting a deal with the Swedes similar to what the Brits just cut with the Norwegians with the Type 26, where the Norwegians 'take' one of the Brits timeslots for the initial delivery and then the rest are staggered into the production run? The key to all of this would be the ability of Irving (or Davie takes on this production) to ramp up their delivery timelines much much quicker in order to make our and the Swedes needs.

Never going to happen, the RCN is beyond desperate to get the River class in service and will accept no delays in order to make that happen. Nobody besides Irving is going to take on production.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Never going to happen, the RCN is beyond desperate to get the River class in service and will accept no delays in order to make that happen. Nobody besides Irving is going to take on production.

If the RCN is beyond desperate to get the River class in service why are they not flogging Irving like a rented mule to get off their butts and deliver the ships much quicker than the current timeline? Hard to take their 'desperation' as being serious if the timelines to deliver aren't being moved up.

 

[Rainbow1910]

If the RCN is beyond desperate to get the River class in service why are they not flogging Irving like a rented mule to get off their butts and deliver the ships much quicker than the current timeline? Hard to take their 'desperation' as being serious if the timelines to deliver aren't being moved up.

Because there isn't realistically anything that the RCN or Govt can to do Irving right now to actually speed up delivery timelines. Irving is still actively finishing up the final two CCG AOPS and actively working on the first River class, the yard has to clear out before work on the frigates can increase. Trying to set up another shipyard to take Irvings work at this point is going to take years and is legally dubious, given how Irving is the sole contracted combatant shipyard under the NSS and places like Davie are not capable of such work/prepping for their own Govt ship contracts in the near future.

They have been pushing in various aspects, chiefly being the removal of a bunch of non-US hardware from the design and being replaced with US counterparts to avoid integration concerns with AEGIS. Any way they can attempt to further meddle in the construction system right now is just going to slow everything down. You can't just say "make this faster" and expect them to do so, that isn't realistic.

 

[Kirkhill]

It's an interesting idea that people are proposing to give Saab 100x the control and influence on our procurement that Bombardier (who everybody loves to hate) ever had.

To be honest I would like to see elements of our arms industry nationalized.

Innovation comes from the private sector generally but some aspects of defence are required even when they don't make commercial sense.

At a certain point, if a company's income is derived from the government then that company should probably be severed from its share holders and made an arm of government.

I am a capitalist, but I have limits.

 

[Kirkhill]

You obviously haven't met the United States Military Industrial Complex.

Which do you think the German Army would prefer?

Rheinmetall's Leopard 2A8
Hanwha's K2

...

And shall we consider France and Germany's dust up with Airbus and the FCAS programme ... the latest episode in a long running saga?

...

Politics built the Vasa and the Mary Rose.