The US Presidency 2018

[Remius]

Don't panic yet, it is still early.

How about now?

Looks like Trump got played.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/07/what-now-pompeo-exits-north-korea-emptyhanded-leaving-us-with-three-options-all-them-bad.html

 

[tomahawk6]

Every President that dealt with the North got played.As for Trump he never gave in on sanctions and the recent tariffs on China I think are to force them to lean on North Korea. Pressure is the only thing the North understands.

 

[Remius]

Every President that dealt with the North got played.As for Trump he never gave in on sanctions and the recent tariffs on China I think are to force them to lean on North Korea. Pressure is the only thing the North understands.

Except this one actually agreed to meet with him.  No other president gave NK that legitimacy they wanted. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Except this one actually agreed to meet with him.  No other president gave NK that legitimacy they wanted.

Not meeting with NK wasn't working. The Democrats demanded diplomacy when Trump used some pretty harsh rhetoric and threats, but now diplomacy wasn't the right way?

 

[Remius]

Not meeting with NK wasn't working. The Democrats demanded diplomacy when Trump used some pretty harsh rhetoric and threats, but now diplomacy wasn't the right way?

I think they wanted actual diplomacy.  Not a photo op that legitimises the NK leader.  Kim obviously read the art of the deal and knew that flattery would work. 

Hard to do I guess when the President gutted his state department and still doesn’t have an ambassador to South Korea.

Democrats and republicans alike were warning this was going to happen.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Except this one actually agreed to meet with him.  No other president gave NK that legitimacy they wanted.

Honest question how is meeting with Trump giving him legitimacy?  Was he not considered the president before because no one wanted to meet with him?

Does it make him more powerful to his own people? It seems like he has an iron grip on them already.


Diplomacy doesn't work so take out their ability to make WMDs.

 

[FJAG]

Just a thought from the world of cartoons

:cheers:

 

[Remius]

Honest question how is meeting with Trump giving him legitimacy?  Was he not considered the president before because no one wanted to meet with him?

Does it make him more powerful to his own people? It seems like he has an iron grip on them already.


Diplomacy doesn't work so take out their ability to make WMDs.

This article from CNN explains it quite well.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/asia/kim-family-trump-summit-intl/index.html


Basically he wants to solidify his regime, buy time and show world that his regime is legitimate.

Trump fell for it. 

 

[SeaKingTacco]

This article from CNN explains it quite well.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/asia/kim-family-trump-summit-intl/index.html


Basically he wants to solidify his regime, buy time and show world that his regime is legitimate.

Trump fell for it.

But his regime is legitimate, in the sense that he has a solid grip on power in North Korea.

He may be an odious, tryannical  beast of a human being, but I don't think too many people question who is in charge up there.

 

[Remius]

But his regime is legitimate, in the sense that he has a solid grip on power in North Korea.

He may be an odious, tryannical  beast of a human being, but I don't think too many people question who is in charge up there.

Being in charge does not equate to legitimacy.  On the international stage NK is isolated with limited trade and diplomatic relations. 

Meeting with the Trump gave them a perception of more legitimacy. It's what they wanted and what they got.  He got the US to stop their exercise, got them to pull more troops from Seoul and a beautiful photo op and Trump saying wonderful things about Kim and bought more time.  The US got nothing in return. 

What was touted as one of his signature accomplishments will likely go down as a blunder. 

Remember that the DKPR thinks it is the legitimate government of all of the Koreas.

Sorry guys, you can't sugar coat this or brush it off as nothing. 

 

[PPCLI Guy]

But his regime is legitimate, in the sense that he has a solid grip on power in North Korea.

He may be an odious, tryannical  beast of a human being, but I don't think too many people question who is in charge up there.

The same was true of the Taliban.....and ISIS in its caliphate

 

[Remius]

The same was true of the Taliban.....and ISIS in its caliphate

Or Castro, or Mugabe etc etc

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Being in charge does not equate to legitimacy.  On the international stage NK is isolated with limited trade and diplomatic relations. 

Meeting with the Trump gave them a perception of more legitimacy. It's what they wanted and what they got.  He got the US to stop their exercise, got them to pull more troops from Seoul and a beautiful photo op and Trump saying wonderful things about Kim and bought more time.  The US got nothing in return. 

What was touted as one of his signature accomplishments will likely go down as a blunder. 

Remember that the DKPR thinks it is the legitimate government of all of the Koreas.

Sorry guys, you can't sugar coat this or brush it off as nothing.

Who said I was sugar coating anything? Re-read what I wrote.

If one intends on negotiating with North Korea, I am simply positing that one has no choice but to negotiate with Kim.

I make no comment on how effective this round on negotiations has been.

 

[kkwd]

According to rumours President Trump is not a legitimate president in the view of much of the world. Then how can he giving legitimacy to a regime if he is not legitimate himself?

 

[Jarnhamar]

According to rumours President Trump is not a legitimate president in the view of much of the world. Then how can he giving legitimacy to a regime if he is not legitimate himself?

:rofl:

 

[Remius]

The problem is that NK wants to also be treated as a legitimate nuclear power.  Buying time and and having Trump play up to this helped their cause.

It could be that now the only option is one of force.  And that will be a bloody mess.

Oh and good luck getting any support given the way he’s dropping allies. 

Trump said he would know in the first five minutes how to read Kim. How did that work out?

Kim is in a much stronger position now and the US has egg on its face. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Sorry guys, you can't sugar coat this or brush it off as nothing.

Nor can you just pull out a magic eight ball and make definitive statements without being involved or know what the future will bring. Speculation doesn't  mean right, it's simply your individual thoughts

I'm just spitballin' here, but I don't think Trump's team puts much credence in your points.

People just can't stand the fact that he might be doing something right. You are entitled to your thoughts, but I think I'll wait for the results before trying to decide whether his initiative was worth it or not. Or who did what. On the diplomatic front, you can't make a judgement from one meeting of the leaders. Sometimes these things take years.

At least he's trying to move things forward as opposed to the likes of Obama paying blackmail money to Kim and doing nothing.

 

[Remius]

I'm just spitballin' here, but I don't think Trump's team puts much credence in your points.

People just can't stand the fact that he might be doing something right. You are entitled to your thoughts, but I think I'll wait for the results before trying to decide whether his initiative was worth it or not. Or who did what. On the diplomatic front, you can't make a judgement from one meeting of the leaders. Sometimes these things take years.

At least he's trying to move things forward as opposed to the likes of Obama paying blackmail money to Kim and doing nothing.

You mean Trump doesn't come here and read my opinions or thoughts?  Wow, I'm hurt.  :

Blackmail money?  I'm curious what that would be.  No argument here that previous guys have not really done much.  I just think that Trump has accelerated things in the wrong direction.

Actually I was a supporter of his get tougher approach to NK.  I'm even in favour of him taking a diplomatic approach.  But this was Diplomacy by Trump.  Personality driven with little to show for.  Photo ops and propaganda for Kim.

There is a reason Presidents don't start negotiations themselves.  But now for better or for ill he is the face of this.

And yes it can take years.  Kim is banking on that...

 

[PPCLI Guy]

People just can't stand the fact that he might be doing something right. You are entitled to your thoughts, but I think I'll wait for the results before trying to decide whether his initiative was worth it or not. Or who did what. On the diplomatic front, you can't make a judgement from one meeting of the leaders. Sometimes these things take years.

That sounds entirely reasonable.

How about we apply this new approach to discussions in threads about Canadian politics....

 

[Altair]

That sounds entirely reasonable.

How about we apply this new approach to discussions in threads about Canadian politics....

:rofl:

Wouldn't that be something.