TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

[GR66]

22 subs eh?

I see how that makes sense. Japan has a 20ish sub navy. We have a much larger marine area, especially if we have diesel submarines.

Do they all have to be crewed?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Do they all have to be crewed?

No. At any given time, four or five of them would be in deep maintenance/refit in the hands of a yard.

 

[Eaglelord17]

as in maybe a standing budgeted order for 1 every year or every 18 months with no defined limit?

Two a year with two being mothballed at the 12-15 year mark. Keep them until the 24-30 mark and sell off the half used ships to friendly nations.

In event of war we can have a 48-60 ship fleet of fairly modern well taken care of ships available plus facilities capable of making them at a moments notice.

In peace we have spares and options as well as stable jobs and realistically cost effective manufacturing due to constant known demand/supply.

 

[YZT580]

Two a year with two being mothballed at the 12-15 year mark. Keep them until the 24-30 mark and sell off the half used ships to friendly nations.

In event of war we can have a 48-60 ship fleet of fairly modern well taken care of ships available plus facilities capable of making them at a moments notice.

In peace we have spares and options as well as stable jobs and realistically cost effective manufacturing due to constant known demand/supply.

and you can use the mothballed fleet for loads of training opportunities; win, win

 

[GR66]

No. At any given time, four or five of them would be in deep maintenance/refit in the hands of a yard.

Lack of clarity on my part. Do we need 22 x 212CD's or could it be a mix of 212CD's and XLUUV's for example?

I guess it really depends on the concept of operations.

 

[Eaglelord17]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-germany-submarines-defence-industry-economy-9.7407952

The cynic in me seems to be rewarded. Part of the reason I think they went with Germany is because they want to cut the order down once the panic from the States is over.

If they went with South Korea I suspect they wouldn’t have the time frame to cancel some as they would likely get them done quicker.

 

[Halifax Tar]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-germany-submarines-defence-industry-economy-9.7407952

The cynic in me seems to be rewarded. Part of the reason I think they went with Germany is because they want to cut the order down once the panic from the States is over.

If they went with South Korea I suspect they wouldn’t have the time frame to cancel some as they would likely get them done quicker.

I think the post trump effect will reduce more than submarine numbers, sadly.

 

[Underway]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-germany-submarines-defence-industry-economy-9.7407952

The cynic in me seems to be rewarded. Part of the reason I think they went with Germany is because they want to cut the order down once the panic from the States is over.

If they went with South Korea I suspect they wouldn’t have the time frame to cancel some as they would likely get them done quicker.

This was always going to be the way. I thought it was going to be 4 + 4 +4. You don't order 12 ships. You order in batches.

It's cost control and allows to restructure the contract in between as well as evolve the ships design between batches.

It never was 12. It was up to 12 (min 8 was subtext).

 

[Czech_pivo]

This was always going to be the way. I thought it was going to be 4 + 4 +4. You don't order 12 ships. You order in batches.

It's cost control and allows to restructure the contract in between as well as evolve the ships design between batches.

It never was 12. It was up to 12 (min 8 was subtext).

I guess that whoever in the RCN who wrote the report saying we needed 22 subs really should have fudged the numbers to say 30-34 and then maybe we would be getting 12 subs.

Oh well, lesson learned. File it away and dust it off in 35yrs when we'll be doing this all over again.

Still can't shake the feeling that we'll never see 15 Rivers.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-germany-submarines-defence-industry-economy-9.7407952

The cynic in me seems to be rewarded. Part of the reason I think they went with Germany is because they want to cut the order down once the panic from the States is over.

If they went with South Korea I suspect they wouldn’t have the time frame to cancel some as they would likely get them done quicker.

Speaking of South Korea, they just launched there second KS-III Batch 2 submarine.

South Korea Launches Second KSS-III Batch-II Submarine, ROKS Seo Hui - Naval News

The Republic of Korea Navy held a launching ceremony for Seo Hui, the second Jang Bogo(KSS)-III Batch-II submarine, at Hanwha Ocean’s shipyard in Geoje on November 3.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Gordon Dundas/]

Once Trump's gone I wouldn't be surprised if the Defence budget gets gutted. If we're serious about dealing with Europe. We'll do it quietly and hope they either don't notice or don't care.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Once Trump's gone I wouldn't be surprised if the Defence budget gets gutted. If we're serious about dealing with Europe. We'll do it quietly and hope they either don't notice or don't care.

So Canadian it hurts ...