Transition to Municipal Police Force

[brihard]

Surrey definitely has a massive southeast Asian community. Huge Sikh and Chinese populations. That’s common to the whole metro Vancouver area.

This is a lateral recruiting outreach though; they’re targeting serving police in the GTA. Not sure the extent to which diversity in the GTA services reflects diversity in the populations they serve.

 

[daftandbarmy]

That’s no homeless man. That’s my buddy Mike walking all the streets of Oak Bay!

Correction: there is one homeless man in Oak Bay. His name is Robert.

He sits near the Starbucks and, as a result, is well supplied

 

[mariomike]

Not sure the extent to which diversity in the GTA services reflects diversity in the populations they serve.

Emergency services in the GTA didn't much reflect the diversity of the populations they served when I hired on. That's a polite understatement.

Back then, there was a Residency Requirement. But, it was long before the Employment Equity Act.

Even so, you gained valuable experience in the upwards of 240 official and unofficial neighbourhoods in 416, and many more in the Regions of Halton, Peel, York and Durham.

I read this about the long forgotten Residency Requirement from the Supreme Court of Canada,

The court left open the possibility that it might make sense for police and emergency services to have a residency requirement.

Justice Gérard La Forest, writing for the majority, wrote that "in certain circumstances, a municipality (or, for that matter, another government actor) might well be justified in imposing a residence requirement on employees occupying certain essential positions."

Godbout v. Longueuil (City) - SCC Cases

This page contains a form to search the Supreme Court of Canada case information database. You can search by the SCC 5-digit case number, by name or word in the style of cause, or by file number from the appeal court.

scc-csc.lexum.com

The justice went on to specify that such a requirement on emergency services — such as police officers, firefighters and paramedics — would make sense so they are "readily available in times of urgent need."

I know members of the emergency services attend local high school career days, so that helps with local recruitment.

 

[lenaitch]

It’s totally normal for cities to target other cities forces. Edmonton and Calgary have gone east and west. Edmonton at one point sent some to the UK for experienced officers. A large city recruiter was also found meeting with recruits at or around their graduations to suggest they lateral.

Sometimes it’s linked to a school or a program and they are invited etc.

I believe the Uk experienced officer one has fallen out of favour.

The Facebook ads and experienced police are normal as well- they are also targeted ads based on what people are searching and talking about,

It may be more common out west but I can't say I've seen an overt poaching campaign targetting another service like this in Ontario in recent memory. Certainly, all police services exploit social media and do outreach to educational institutions, etc. to attract new members.

 

[Booter]

It may be more common out west but I can't say I've seen an overt poaching campaign targetting another service like this in Ontario in recent memory. Certainly, all police services exploit social media and do outreach to educational institutions, etc. to attract new members.

It may well be the way your pensions work like you’ve mentioned that keep it smaller than it is out west

I’d never considered that

It’s only recently I’ve started considering lateraling.

 

[brihard]

It may well be the way your pensions work like you’ve mentioned that keep it smaller than it is out west

I’d never considered that

It’s only recently I’ve started considering lateraling.

Pension considerations can be huge due to when you can 'vest' and actually draw an unreduced pension... Laterals are usually best either in your first decade of service, or after you've hit the number of years that let you take an immediate unreduced pension. In the latter case it actually makes a hell of a lot more financial sense to change to a different employer and double dip a new salary on top of a pension. (note that indexing may not be immediate even if an unreduced pension is)

 

[mariomike]

It may well be the way your pensions work like you’ve mentioned that keep it smaller than it is out west

Worth mentioning, in Ontario, provincial police are on a different pension system than municipal ( OMERS ).

Supplemental Plan

The OMERS Supplemental Plan for Police, Firefighters and Paramedics offers optional benefits for members of the police sector, firefighters and paramedics. As an OMERS employer, you may offer a benefit to a specific class or classes of employees.

www.omers.com

 

[dapaterson]

Pension considerations can be huge due to when you can 'vest' and actually draw an unreduced pension... Laterals are usually best either in your first decade of service, or after you've hit the number of years that let you take an immediate unreduced pension. In the latter case it actually makes a hell of a lot more financial sense to change to a different employer and double dip a new salary on top of a pension. (note that indexing may not be immediate even if an unreduced pension is)

Too many people forget that pensions are designed to handcuff you to an employer - not because your employer particularly cares about you.

 

[Booter]

I’m

Pension considerations can be huge due to when you can 'vest' and actually draw an unreduced pension... Laterals are usually best either in your first decade of service, or after you've hit the number of years that let you take an immediate unreduced pension. In the latter case it actually makes a hell of a lot more financial sense to change to a different employer and double dip a new salary on top of a pension. (note that indexing may not be immediate even if an unreduced pension is)

unfortunately I’m having to make choices outside pension considerations and will have to take it on the chin. So I definitely see the issue

 

[RangerRay]

Correction: there is one homeless man in Oak Bay. His name is Robert.

He sits near the Starbucks and, as a result, is well supplied

Oak Bay PD doesn’t bundle him up and drop him off at Fort and Douglas anymore? Oak Bay is getting quite tolerant…

 

[brihard]

I’m

unfortunately I’m having to make choices outside pension considerations and will have to take it on the chin. So I definitely see the issue

That sucks man. Good luck, and I hope it works out.

 

[CBH99]

I think busy urban policing isn’t very different between different jurisdictions. The faces and names are different but the behaviours, problems, and emergencies are pretty much the same.

Anecdotally from a buddy working in Peel, Mississauga is a mess, and policing there can suck. That said I’m doubtful many will pull the pin and hop over when it’s unclear if SPS will continue to exist. Maybe they’re hiring out of province in part because of that, and hoping prospective lateral recruits may not realize just how up in the air it is?

Would SPS have to provide members compensation if they convince someone to move there from outside the province, then end up ‘disbanded’?

 

[mariomike]

Would SPS have to provide members compensation if they convince someone to move there from outside the province, then end up ‘disbanded’?

My uneducated guess is that the agency taking over would take the members. It has happened in Toronto. Police in 1957, ambulance in 1967, and fire in 1998.

Nobody lost their job over it.

I suppose there is no guarantee, but that seems to be the custom.

 

[RedFive]

My uneducated guess is that the agency taking over would take the members. It has happened in Toronto. Police in 1957, ambulance in 1967, and fire in 1998.

Nobody lost their job over it.

I suppose there is no guarantee, but that seems to be the custom.

Given the way this whole thing has gone down, I fully expect the RCMP to refuse to take a bunch of these people either "back" as remounts, or in the door in the first place as experienced officers.

Given my own experience, I hope if SPS is disbanded we are very selective about who we allow to join. I have spent way too much time explaining basic concepts and Police work to members who are paid significantly more than me, who have more service than me, and who were touted by a certain former Mayor and a good portion of the media as better officers than the RCMP could ever produce.

This has dragged on too long, and I'm starting to get bitter about it.

 

[Booter]

There has been more than a few duds on their field training pulled into SPS out of K. Like to where the commanders are like “really…that guy?”

Given the way this whole thing has gone down, I fully expect the RCMP to refuse to take a bunch of these people either "back" as remounts, or in the door in the first place as experienced officers.

Given my own experience, I hope if SPS is disbanded we are very selective about who we allow to join. I have spent way too much time explaining basic concepts and Police work to members who are paid significantly more than me, who have more service than me, and who were touted by a certain former Mayor and a good portion of the media as better officers than the RCMP could ever produce.

This has dragged on too long, and I'm starting to get bitter about it.

h

 

[brihard]

There has been more than a few duds on their field training pulled into SPS out of K. Like to where the commanders are like “really…that guy?”

h

Recruits who signed on the “I’ll go anywhere” line and didn’t really believe the prairies could happen to them?

 

[Booter]

Recruits who signed on the “I’ll go anywhere” line and didn’t really believe the prairies could happen to them?

Lol. Lots of expecting to be posted to Surrey but found themselves in Alberta and Sask.

 

[RedFive]

More than a couple of those around. SPS got a handful of good members like that, the rest are... suspect. At best.

 

[RedFive]

There has been more than a few duds on their field training pulled into SPS out of K. Like to where the commanders are like “really…that guy?”

h

I think one of the biggest liabilities I work with might be a guy you're referring to, cause he came from K and I'm blown away at how useless yet arrogant he is. Can't get a word in edgewise with him, always "yeah I know". No, you don't know. If you did know, you wouldn't have been doing it that wrong way and I wouldn't be telling you how to do it properly.

I should stop whining its almost over one way or another and there's worse places I could be working.

 

[brihard]

I think one of the biggest liabilities I work with might be a guy you're referring to, cause he came from K and I'm blown away at how useless yet arrogant he is. Can't get a word in edgewise with him, always "yeah I know". No, you don't know. If you did know, you wouldn't have been doing it that wrong way and I wouldn't be telling you how to do it properly.

I should stop whining its almost over one way or another and there's worse places I could be working.

How much longer does Surrey own you?