Troops carrying pistols outside the gate

[BLUE GRUNT]

Just thought I would clarify my point.....I was not suggesting that the officer core in general doesn't have any ability what so ever, my meaning was that since the NCM's do not as a practice carry the pistol they are less familiar with it than the officier. i know there are enough NCM's who do not have a clue as illustrated when our unit went to the range a few weeks ago, one of the Sgt's asked me to show him how to put the thing together,. This again goes back to the basic skill set people in general have, those that use it frequently will be more adapt than those that do not.

As for Nd's I know of some that recently took place at a range, they were door gunning, nothing done about that, no person or A/C were injured, typical it would seem for our place that no charges or other was brought up

I am not officer bashing, infact I know of many good ones who handle their weapon well, the  same can be said for NCM's, conversely I see just as many that should not even get near a weapon. A perfect example is someone I know from the CP140 community, he had not one clue concerning weapons, he has no exposure to them in his job, the same can be said of other trades who do not handle weapons on a regular basis, staff types who go out to play because there is no one left.

Love how people read to much into what is said in here, very excitable group , does stimulate the conversations though.

Woo Aha

 

[Franko]

Just thought I would clarify my point.....I was not suggesting that the officer core in general doesn't have any ability what so ever, my meaning was that since the NCM's do not as a practice carry the pistol they are less familiar with it than the officier. i know there are enough NCM's who do not have a clue as illustrated when our unit went to the range a few weeks ago, one of the Sgt's asked me to show him how to put the thing together,.

Perhaps in your unit that is the norm.

It is not, however, common in any combat arms unit that I've ever heard of.

Training, at all rank levels, with it properly alleviates the stigma of "elitism" and some sort of weird status symbol that some people think the bloody thing is.

It's a weapon...nothing more. Not some sort of FOBbit jewelery so someone can put their C7 away and carry it as a fashion statement.

Regards

 

[KevinB]

It's a weapon...nothing more. Not some sort of FOBbit jewelery so someone can put their C7 away and carry it as a fashion statement.

OH SO TRUE

 

[OldSolduer]

Ain't that the truth Infidel 6....seen farrr too much of FOBbit jewellery.

 

[TCBF]

It's a weapon...nothing more. Not some sort of FOBbit jewelery so someone can put their C7 away and carry it as a fashion statement.

- As the cliche goes, the pistol is used to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have put down.

- As for the fashion statement, perhaps those afraid of rifles should be given pistols - less energy going downrange when the inevitable ND occurs. 

- I never could figure out why people who hate and fear guns join the Canadian ARMED Forces.

 

[Jarnhamar]

...as illustrated when our unit went to the range a few weeks ago, one of the Sgt's asked me to show him how to put the thing together,.

Funny but I'd respect the fact that this SGT realized he didn't know what he was doing and asked for help instead of just acting like he knew.
I've seen someone get a stoppage with the browning, eject the round then somehow load the round in the chamber backwards attempt to fire it then ask for a C7 cleaning rod so he can insert it into the barrel and attempt to pop out the round.

EVERYONE needs more time with the pistols but it's hard because they are so scarce. They are so scarce because people who don't need them, have them.

Too bad troops weren't allowed to bring their own 9mms or .45s

 

[TCBF]

- The other reason they are so scarce might be because we keep thousands in 'war stocks' while not replacing the ones BLR'd/BER'd over the years. 

 

[zipperhead_cop]

- As the cliche goes, the pistol is used to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have put down.

See, I think this pervasive idea is part of the problem.  I have also hear repeatedly "If I have to use this POS, things have gotten really f**ked up".  I don't get where that comes from.  Lack of interest and lack of confidence is what I have been seeing, not a Gucci attitude. 
The pistol is a tool, like everything else.  Probably because I am so comfortable with it, I would rather use it in a CQB situation than a rifle (no, this is not an invitation for all the sexy gunfighters to argue CQB).  Hell, I'd like someone to teach me how to use my bayonet again.  I would also like to have an M203 on my personal rifle, which I would like to be a C-9, but sometimes I have cheese dreams. 
My point is that there seems to be a culture in the Army that using the pistol is somehow a bad thing.  Getting past this idea IMO would go a long way to sorting out some of these training issues.  Currently, it feels like many people think of the BHP as a "nice-to-have". 

 

[Jarnhamar]

My 2ICs G-Wagon was hit by an IED and it sucked the door open and actually sucked his rifle right out. When he dismounted all he had for a few minutes was his pistol.

 

[Big Red]

My 2ICs G-Wagon was hit by an IED and it sucked the door open and actually sucked his rifle right out. When he dismounted all he had for a few minutes was his pistol.

Good reason to have the rifle attached to your body.

 

[geo]

- The other reason they are so scarce might be because we keep thousands in 'war stocks' while not replacing the ones BLR'd/BER'd over the years. 

THAT may be the fault of the unit personnel who, seeing how often the pistols actualy got used, didn't put much importance in the darned thing and returned the pistols to the vault - defects and all ...... THAT's how come we had so many defective mags... that's why those thousands of BHP stayed in war stock.

That having been said, over the past couple of years and going forward, that problem is, at long last, being addressed.  We get rid of what is broken and demand kit that works.

 

[geo]

Years and years ago, we said the pistol came with a lanyard so that the young officer would not lose his "personal weapon"..... we also suggested that the lanyard could be used to bring back the weapon to same said young officer after he had thrown it at his foe... a salute to his shooting prowess

 

[Redeye]

Didn't they change the manual of arms on that - 12 rounds for the enemy, 1 for you if it gets that bad?

Years and years ago, we said the pistol came with a lanyard so that the young officer would not lose his "personal weapon"..... we also suggested that the lanyard could be used to bring back the weapon to same said young officer after he had thrown it at his foe... a salute to his shooting prowess

 

[geo]

.... to save time, only issue the last one >

 

[daftandbarmy]

Years and years ago, we said the pistol came with a lanyard so that the young officer would not lose his "personal weapon"..... we also suggested that the lanyard could be used to bring back the weapon to same said young officer after he had thrown it at his foe... a salute to his shooting prowess

That would be me.... give me a rifle over a pistol anytime (or a sharpened shovel...)

 

[OldSolduer]

The use of pistols in combat....has anyone seriously studied that?
The US Army used to arm the tunnel rats with Colt 45's. Confined areas are conducive to pistols as well, but I'm preaching to the choir now.
:blotto:

 

[Panzer Grenadier]

The use of pistols in combat....has anyone seriously studied that?
The US Army used to arm the tunnel rats with Colt 45's. Confined areas are conducive to pistols as well, but I'm preaching to the choir now.
:blotto:

Choir, can I get an AMEN.

 

[medaid]

Im no a big fan of the pistol. Rifle or carbine any day.

 

[MedTechStudent]

Although I have no experience...just my simple imput.

The system in place now for the arms distribution is most likely there for a reason, what ever that may be.  Depending on your situation, ANYONE could find themselves needing a sidearm.  So even if somehow, a specific group of militants were deemed needing of pistols, every other group would just think of reasons or situations in which they too would need them.  Bad analogy time, BUT, its sort of like back in grade school where if you gave that one kid a piece of gum everyone else felt entitled to one as well 

I went through a lot of gum in school ;D

Anyways, just the way I see the situation!

Cheers everyone!

 

[KevinB]

Please dont post.  Your stealing my oxygen as it is -- your not required to needlessly kill my brain cells in these posts too.