U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)

[mariomike]

No corner of He&% hot enough for anyone who would torch a beautiful car like that.

Chant your a$$ off. But, respect the rights and property of others.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Jarnhamar - That is a great example of the problem of relying on visual images. 

Ahh maybe! Just seen a few pictures where the crowd looked much larger than in that picture.  :subbies:

 

[Kirkhill]

Also I'd imagine parking was a concern this year.

One limo - Vancouver and Montreal do a better job of rioting for hockey games.  And France... New Year's Eve?

Almost 1,000 cars torched around France on New Year's Eve but government insists it 'went particularly well'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/02/almost-1000-cars-torched-around-france-new-years-eve-government/

 

[mariomike]

With the millions of women at the Women's March in D.C., and around the world, now is probably your best chance to go shopping and get in and out of the mall. 

Aerial photos show the contrast between crowds at Trump’s inauguration and the Women's March
http://www.businessinsider.com/womens-march-versus-trump-inauguration-attendance-2017-1

Women band together for what could be the largest political demonstration the US capital has ever seen
http://www.businessinsider.com/womens-march-on-washington-message-of-unity-2017-1

 

[ModlrMike]

Chant your a$$ off. But, respect the rights and property of others.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[sailorprivateer]

No government experience? No problem! 

"For a Republican Party that was desperate to woo nonwhite voters before Donald Trump tossed his toupee in the ring, and will be even harder-pressed to woo them once our present mess is over, Johnson could be the sort of person the GOP tries to renovate into a viable candidate."

Interesting.

Wow kind of coincidence, I got the current issue of GQ and they are even suggesting he should take a shot at the nomination. :facepalm:

 

[vonGarvin]

I was at this inauguration.  There were hundreds of thousands of people.  We were prevented from going to the mall because it was filled,  at least near 4th.
There is an active agenda to make it seem that it was poorly attended. A participant of the Women's March even posted a photo on twitter of a completely empty metro station.  Not my experience.  I got on at almost the first station.  The cars were already half full. And thry were running at rush hour capacity.  The five minute walk out of the station took over 20, it was so packed.
The streets were filled with people: pro Trump, anti Trump and those in between.

It was very well attended.

 

[kkwd]

This was displayed on the closed captioning of my TV. Seems there is to be free beer. This just keeps getting better. This capture is from Fox but I also watch MSNBC, just for the laugh factor. I will be watching Al Sharpton later this morning, he is the best unintentional funny guy on that network.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Jarnhamar - That is a great example of the problem of relying on visual images.  The photographer's point of view (literally where they are standing), the way they compose the picture (to fill the screen or to minimize the crowd) and the editor's ability to crop the image all result in a subjective impression rather than an objective report.

Or relying on any one single picture - as you so aptly put it in another thread with something similar to the first attachment.  Along the same lines, though ...

I was at this inauguration.  There were hundreds of thousands of people.  We were prevented from going to the mall because it was filled,  at least near 4th.

I trust your individual observations and judgement, but to play the Devil's Advocate, did you see any vandalism personally?  Any cars being torched or businesses being broken into/damaged?  If you didn't (and I don't know if you did or not), you could also say, "I didn't see any vandalism"*.  Does that make all the other pix of such crime shenanigans, "fake news"?  No, but this is exactly why we need an aggregate of views.  At least you're fair enough to say this ...

The streets were filled with people: pro Trump, anti Trump and those in between.

It was very well attended.

BTW, well done taking in a bit of history when you had the chance.  ;D

Both pictures (the mall image of 2017 and the podium image that you posted, probably were of the same crowd).

Based on where the Capitol seems to be in both pix, they're both the same stretch, in the same direction, but at different points.  So it's more an example of the second attachment, then - both true, but not the entire truth.

I have the same problem with TV at any public gathering.  The cameraman always fills the screen regardless if the crowd is 5 or 500,000.

:nod:

All images are factual.

I'd refine that a bit by saying, "Any image that isn't adulterated is a data point."  Just like media stories.

* - And I won't open the can of worms of, "I didn't see any vandalism" vs. "there was no vandalism," with the different spin each statement entails, which could be the subject of a whooooooole other discussion.

 

[Jarnhamar]

With the millions of women at the Women's March in D.C.,

Hard to say if it's another fake story but I read one of the women ORGANIZERS,  is pro sharia law with family connections in HAMAS and recently met up with an ex Hamas operative.


Also Trump got more overweight women walking in one day than Michelle Obama did in 8 years.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Or relying on any one single picture - as you so aptly put it in another thread with something similar to the first attachment.  Along the same lines, though.

Right.  In this day an age where people make careers out of lying and fake news we need more sources that singular pictures.  The amount of people that believe sometbing,  a picture or story,  posted on Facebook is incredible.

When it comes to news I'd trust you 100 times more than cnn etc..    You seem quite unbiased,  you should start your own snoops style website. (seriously)

 

[The Bread Guy]

Right.  In this day an age where people make careers out of lying and fake news we need more sources that singular pictures.  The amount of people that believe sometbing,  a picture or story,  posted on Facebook is incredible.

Without insulting anybody's intelligence, people find it easier when they see something simple.  Something simple usually doesn't reflect the entire reality, but it's easy to "get".  I'm guilty, too, of sometimes sharing memes that I could have fact checked because I go, "yeah, what THAT says".  #CaveatLector

When it comes to news I'd trust you 100 times more than cnn etc..    You seem quite unbiased,  you should start your own snoops style website. (seriously)

Thanks for the kind words, Jarnhamar.  When it comes to bias, I like to tell people I'm more liberal than some of my conservative friends, and more conservative than some of my liberal friends, sometimes surprising both  ;D

Or is my seeming lack of bias a lack of faith in any party of any colour some days? 

 

[mariomike]

Regarding estimating crowd sizes from an "I was there" point of view.

I was sent into some major events in the course of my duties ( A little shy of 37 years in this city. Only NYC and LA are bigger. ),

The 2003 Rolling Stones concert in Toronto. The largest rock concert in Canadian history, and one of the largest in North American history.
Caribana - North America's largest street festival.
Pride - apparently the world's second largest gay pride festival.
World Youth Day 2002
CNE

etc...

My employer sent me into many other large crowds in this city. Some were friendly, others not so much.

As a non-expert, speaking only for myself, when it comes to estimating crowd sizes, all I can say is that when they send you into the middle of these things, on the ground, it is impossible.

I was used to working in large crowds. But, estimating their size is best left to the experts, in my opinion.

For anyone interested, crowd size in yesterday's Women's protests in America, Canada and around the world,

"Sister marches were organized in all 50 states and Puerto Rico, as well as in 55 global cities, including Tokyo, Sydney, Nairobi, Paris, and Bogotá. On the morning of the march, people marched in Paris, London, Berlin, Amsterdam, Mexico City, Bangkok, Delhi, Cape Town, and other cities."

Including Canada,

"More than thirty events were organized across Canada with at least twenty organized in the Province of British Columbia alone. An estimated 60,000 people attended a rally at Toronto's Queen's Park in solidarity with the March on Washington. In Vancouver, an estimated 15,000 people assembled in Jack Poole Plaza before parading through the downtown area. Other cities included: Balfour, Bowen Island, Calgary, Castlegar, Charlottetown, Courtenay, Edmonton, Fredericton, Gabriola Island, Grand Forks, Halifax, Hamilton, Kamloops, Kelowna, Kimberly, Kingston, Kootenay Bay, Lethbridge, London, Montréal, Nanaimo, North West River, Orangedale, Ottawa, Port Dover, Prince George, Revelstoke, Roberts Creek, St. Catharines, Saint John, Salmon Arm, Salt Spring Island, Saskatoon, St. John's, Sutton, Sydney, Tofino, Victoria, Winnipeg, and Yellowknife.

Hundreds of Canadians are estimated to have travelled to Washington, D.C. to attend the rally. A number of Canadians heading to the United States to attend other protests and rallies were turned away at the Canada–United States border."

United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Women%27s_March#United_States

Worldwide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Women%27s_March#Worldwide



References,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Women%27s_March#References



 

 

[The Bread Guy]

As a non-expert, speaking only for myself, when it comes to estimating crowd sizes, all I can say is that when they send you into the middle of these things, on the ground, it is impossible.

I was used to working in large crowds. But, estimating their size is best left to the experts, in my opinion.

Good point -- for anyone interested, in theory, anyone who's done estimating distances w/the military will understand one way used by journalists & others to estimate crowd sizes ...

The method goes back to the late 1960s and a University of California at Berkeley journalism professor named Herbert Jacobs, whose office was in a tower that overlooked the plaza where students frequently gathered to protest the Vietnam War. The plaza was marked with regular grid lines, which allowed Jacobs to see how many grid squares were filled with students and how many students on average packed into each grid.

After gathering data on numerous demonstrations, Jacobs came up with some rules of thumb that still are used today by those serious about crowd estimation. A loose crowd, one where each person is an arm's length from the body of his or her nearest neighbors, needs 10 square feet per person. A more tightly packed crowd fills 4.5 square feet per person. A truly scary mob of mosh-pit density would get about 2.5 square feet per person.

The trick, then, is to accurately measure the square feet in the total area occupied by the crowd and divide it by the appropriate figure, depending on assessment of crowd density. Thanks to aerial photos or mapping applications like Google Earth, even outdoor areas can be readily measured these days.

When I used to be a journalist in the middle of such things, I'd try to get an overview look and estimate, or I'd ask cops who were controlling things. 

You can always ask the organizers, but bet on inflation.  You can ask counter-protesters if there are any, but bet on exaggeration.  Or you can take an average of the last two for a very crude average.

I've heard that some people practice this by throwing a handful of beans on a table, guesstimating the number, then counting them up - may be useful for smaller groups, but I wouldn't want to clean up 1/2 a million beans to practice  ;D

 

[George Wallace]

Hard to say if it's another fake story but I read one of the women ORGANIZERS,  is pro sharia law with family connections in HAMAS and recently met up with an ex Hamas operative.


Also Trump got more overweight women walking in one day than Michelle Obama did in 8 years.

Linda Sarsour

 

[Jarnhamar]

Also,  mass protests aimed at preventing attendance ,  threats of property damage and physical assault (include being kidnapped and  tortured)  really negate the whole crowd size dick comparing  too.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Also,  mass protests aimed at preventing attendance ,  threats of property damage and physical assault (include being kidnapped and  tortured)  really negate the whole crowd size dick comparing  too.

I think there's value in reframing these kinds events to emphasize their value to improving the overall health of our people, and maintaining a resolve to continue with our fitness based New Year's resolutions  :nod:

 

[FJAG]

It seems that the lies coming out of the White House are "alternative facts" according to Kellyanne Conway.

Conway then tried to pivot to policy points. But later in the interview, Todd pressed Conway again on why the White House sent Spicer out to make false claims about crowd size, asking: "What was the motive to have this ridiculous litigation of crowd size?"

"Your job is not to call things ridiculous that are said by our press secretary and our president. That's not your job," Conway said.

Todd followed up: "Can you please answer the question? Why did he do this? You have not answered it -- it's only one question."

Conway said: "I'll answer it this way: Think about what you just said to your viewers. That's why we feel compelled to go out and clear the air and put alternative facts out there."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/22/politics/kellyanne-conway-alternative-facts/index.html

While there are undoubtedly a large number of hard core Trumpists who will continue to believe anything he, or his people, say, one has to wonder just how long the mass of the people (and not just the so-called snowflakes) will put up with this?

:cheers:

 

[The Bread Guy]

It seems that the lies coming out of the White House are "alternative facts" according to Kellyanne Conway.

If a says, "x was more than y", and b (which counts x & y) says, "just the opposite," how would that play if PMJT was "a"?  Would people trust a or b more?  Yeah, I'm suuuuuuuuure everyone would buy that as an "alternative fact" without "a" getting aaaaaaaaaaaany flack at all ...

Interesting how #POTUS45's picking this as the first substantive thing to deal with. 

We'll see how #POTUS45DayOne goes tomorrow - remember the Day One list, and, for the record, the first 100 day list (no later than 30 April 2017) - also attached in case link doesn't work for you.

 

[daftandbarmy]

"After 1968 the history of the Left can be told as a story of sour grapes." David Chandler

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14781158.2013.831822