U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)

[Jarnhamar]

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/adults-raised-gay-couples-speak-out-against-gay-marriage-federal-court

 

[McG]

Ack.  That is a biased sample of four individuals out of an actual population of how many US adults that were raised by same sex parents?  Where are the statistically significant numbers that can be held up as actual evidence?  I assume that "ample evidence" means something more than four anecdotes assembled by a lawyer.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Just taking a quick look it seems split down the middle with articles for and against same-sex marriages as far as the repercussions on kids go. I've known a few people with same sex parents and they had a pretty crappy time of it, I'm sure there's others that had a totally fine childhood. No dog in this fight, I just remember reading a bit about this stuff including how kids who had same-sex parents (and negative opinions about it) felt forced to shut up about it.

Same sex parents definitely shouldn't push homosexuality on their kids.

 

[YZT580]

You are the ones who have jumped to conclusions.  I never singled out same sex parents in an exclusive manner.  I stated any family that is single parent, |LGBT, split marriage, the works all work to the detriment of the child.  I referenced the U.S. census regarding single parent families.

 

[McG]

Okay then, you have evidence to support half your claim and are making some broad brush statements without evidence for the other half of your claim.

 

[YZT580]

For the moment, true, but I when  I have a moment to review things I will re-join the discussion. 

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Just taking a quick look it seems split down the middle with articles for and against same-sex marriages as far as the repercussions on kids go. I've known a few people with same sex parents and they had a pretty crappy time of it, I'm sure there's others that had a totally fine childhood. No dog in this fight, I just remember reading a bit about this stuff including how kids who had same-sex parents (and negative opinions about it) felt forced to shut up about it.

Same sex parents definitely shouldn't push homosexuality on their kids.

According to the Columbia law school study of 79 independent scholarly studies, 75 shower that children raised by same sex couples fared no worse than those raised by traditional families. Of the 4 outlier studies, they all shared the same flaw in that they focused the majority of their findings and research on children raised originally by hetero couples but transitioned to being parented by same sex couples later in life. The resultant issues then we're found to be in line with other children of "broken homes". So, no, research isn't split. 95% show no issues.

As for pushing sexuality,  I don't believe, outside of introducing the concept, you can push sexuality as its an ingrained trait. Homosexuality can no more be pushed than can heterosexuality.

http://whatweknow.law.columbia.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-wellbeing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/

 

[Jarnhamar]

According to the Columbia law school study of 79 independent scholarly studies, 75 shower that children raised by same sex couples fared no worse than those raised by traditional families. Of the 4 outlier studies, they all shared the same flaw in that they focused the majority of their findings and research on children raised originally by hetero couples but transitioned to being parented by same sex couples later in life. The resultant issues then we're found to be in line with other children of "broken homes". So, no, research isn't split. 95% show no issues.

You'll notice I said articles and not research. Still, that's a lot of studies that seem to support the argument children from same sex marriages are no worse off than traditional marriages so maybe you're right.  I'll take a look an in depth look at the criteria What We Know used to pick the independent scholarly studies from when I have time.
[Though quickly, I thought I recalled an issue with peer reviews including among own universities for publishing papers and such? Sometimes a little you scratch my back I scratch yours] 

I suspect given time I can dig up 76 studies showing the opposite of what WWK found and it looks like the study from Colombia Law school isn't without it's critics.  (Again I want to point out I'm pro-gay marriage)

As for pushing sexuality,  I don't believe, outside of introducing the concept, you can push sexuality as its an ingrained trait. Homosexuality can no more be pushed than can heterosexuality.

Here I think you're very much wrong but maybe we're arguing different context. It's not as simple as a parent telling a child they're gay and the child deciding they are but parents pushing their beliefs and views on children and/or exposing them to certain environments (which obviously isn't a gay only issue).


There's a viral video on youtube of a young kid twerking, air humping and dancing provocatively at a pride parade. Can you tell me whatever sexuality isn't being pushed on to him? 

 

[Jed]

According to the Columbia law school study of 79 independent scholarly studies, 75 shower that children raised by same sex couples fared no worse than those raised by traditional families. Of the 4 outlier studies, they all shared the same flaw in that they focused the majority of their findings and research on children raised originally by hetero couples but transitioned to being parented by same sex couples later in life. The resultant issues then we're found to be in line with other children of "broken homes". So, no, research isn't split. 95% show no issues.

As for pushing sexuality,  I don't believe, outside of introducing the concept, you can push sexuality as its an ingrained trait. Homosexuality can no more be pushed than can heterosexuality.

http://whatweknow.law.columbia.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-wellbeing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/

I believe you are not correct in this assertion. Look how cultures change viewpoints on this. Even in western culture as generations pass, people develop very different attitudes as parents pass on their belief systems down through the generations.

 

[FJAG]

There's a viral video on youtube of this little kid twerking, air humping and dancing provocatively. Can you tell me whatever sexuality isn't being pushed on to him? 

There are always bad examples available regardless of the class of parent being discussed.

If you want to see kids "twerking, air humping and dancing provocatively" just google "beauty pageants" to see what tens of thousands of heterosexual parents are exposing their small--mostly female--children to.

Not that it matters one whit as far as statistics go, but I know several stable gay and lesbian couples of which just one has kids. They are the most loving and "normal" family I've ever come in contact with.

:cheers:

 

[Jarnhamar]

There are always bad examples available regardless of the class of parent being discussed.

Exactly.  Child beauty pageants are a great example too and in my opinion rank among the higher toxic environments to put children in.

 

[Blackadder1916]

There's a viral video on youtube of this little kid twerking, air humping and dancing provocatively. Can you tell me whatever sexuality isn't being pushed on to him? 

At what point does the posting of (in the original poster's opinion?) potentially sexually provocative images of a child become inappropriate on this forum.  While not one to stifle legitimate argument, at some point such images may violate the site's guidelines.

•You will not post any information that is offensive, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

Remember, this is a child.  Regardless of the circumstances that he was dressed in that manner and why he was at whatever event where he was photographed, he is still a child and common decency should demand that his image be not further exploited.  You should be ashamed.

Before posting this, I did a google image search to see where the image originated.  I was astonished by some of the links that brought up.  Suffice to say, I did not click on any of the links; would not want any of them to show up in my browsing history.

Let's give this child a break and remove that image from this site.  We are better than the low lives who likely originally disseminated that picture as an example of decadence and can find other ways to illustrate an argument.



Edited to add

Thanks to the members who removed the photo in question.

Not wanting to sidetrack the discussion but for benefit of members who may wish to have further understanding of the issue a couple of links:

https://www.crin.org/en/library/publications/use-images-children-media

https://cippic.ca/en/FAQ/Photography_Law#distribute

You generally need permission to distribute a photograph of a person, even for the purpose of personal photography.

For commercial activities, PIPEDA requires consent to distribute photographs depicting identifiable individuals, similar to its requirement for collecting personal information. Again, this requirement does not apply to distribution for journalistic, artistic, or literary purposes.  However, provincial and common law privacy protections still apply.

For all activities, whether commercial in nature or not, provincial and common law privacy protections limit the distribution of photographs. Any court may recognize a lawsuit based on a violation of privacy under the common law.  As well, British Columbia, Manitoba and Saskatchewan have privacy legislation that specifically gives individuals the right to sue for privacy breaches. In Quebec, privacy is protected by a person's “right to respect for his private life” under the Quebec Charter.  Distributing an identifiable image of a person without consent is likely to violate one or more of these privacy laws.

 

[FJAG]

Let's give this child a break and remove that image from this site.  We are better than the low lives who likely originally disseminated that picture as an example of decadence and can find other ways to illustrate an argument.

Absolutely correct. I've taken it out of the quote in my response to the original post.

:cheers:

 

[Jarnhamar]

I removed the image (Sorry I should have linked to the story instead) but I think it's a prime example of a parent/parents putting their child/children in stupid situations where it reasonably might effect their up bringing.  If anyone should be ashamed it's parents that put kids through that crap, whether it's over-sexualized parades or swimsuit clad beauty pageants.  Or bringing them to klan rallies and other protests of the like.

Edit- for clarity and reputation sake I want to point out the image posted did not contain any of the behavior I mentioned from the youtube video (which articles say is taken from a pride parade in Brazil).

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Can you tell me whatever sexuality isn't being pushed on to him?

Without referencing the nature of the photo which has been concluded IMHO, I would argue that what was pushed on him was social norms vice sexuality. As sexuality is a natural thing, one cannot "push" it in that one cannot just make their children gay, straight, bi, etc. For this, reference the many folks who believe that they can send their children to "pray away the gay" camps to rid their children of the horrors of loving someone different than what their parents want. Tbh, I think that the "pray away the gay" folks are worse than the parents of the child int he photo as many who have went through these camps state that it's akin to torture.

There are good gay parents and bad gay parents. Clearly, this young lad had bad ones. Is it worse than the pageant kid parents, the hockey parents who scream at their children in public for missing a pass, the football parents you can see on the "friday night tykes" show, or other parents who push their agenda's/dreams on their children?

As for Thucidydes original point, that gay marriage is a totalitarian leftist trap to push an agenda, I still adamantly disagree. I still think the opposite- the right states who deny their citizens basic rights such as the right to love another person are the ones who are really using government power to push an agenda.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Bird_Gunner45]
There are good gay parents and bad gay parents. Clearly, this young lad had bad ones. Is it worse than the pageant kid parents, the hockey parents who scream at their children in public for missing a pass, the football parents you can see on the "friday night tykes" show, or other parents who push their agenda's/dreams on their children?

[/quote]

I don't have anything concrete to base my opinion on but personally I would guess that a fair to large amount of people whom may say they were impacted negatively by having gay parents would be due to society and how others outside their home treat them, rather than by their parents. I remember a friend in high school had gay parents and people teased him mercilessly because of it but he seemed like he had a good home life. I don't know if it's more difficult for gay parents to adopt/conceive (whatever way) children but I'd again guess that it may be like legal immigrants who have to fight tooth and nail to become citizens.  If gay parents have to fight hard to become parents logically to me they may appreciate it considerably.

In Canada we probably overlook how religious the US is (or maybe better said how outgoing they are about it) and the heavily religion is involved in a lot of things down there. If the church and state were separated more there would probably be much less concern about who marries who.

 

[kkwd]

Trump can get some deals done with "the other side". Here is a doozy that will go down in history.  ;D

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/in-stunning-new-deal-with-democrats-trump-agrees-to-be-impeached/amp

 

[jollyjacktar]

'We are all John Kelly': Twitter has a field day after White House Chief of Staff's body language betrays him during Trump's bombastic speech to the UN  ;D

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4901618/Internet-goes-crazy-John-Kelly-Trump-speech.html#ixzz4tDWTg2o4
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[dimsum]

Mike Pence warns U.S. heading for Canada-style health care if Graham-Cassidy bill fails

WASHINGTON – The vice-president of the United States has some less-than-complimentary words for Canada’s health-care system, which he accuses of certain “failings.”

Mike Pence made the remarks in an interview last week with Alaska radio station KFQD.

He was being asked about the Republican health legislation struggling to get through Congress.

READ MORE: Republican’s last-gasp effort to demolish Obamacare has likely failed

Republicans appear to be wrestling to get a bill that would repeal Obamacare through the legislature before a procedural deadline later this month – and the effort is in deep trouble.

Pence warned that if the legislative effort collapses, the U.S. will be on a course for something similar to Canada.

That’s because the Democratic party is starting to rally to an unprecedented degree around the idea of single-payer health care as a long-term solution to the U.S.’s endless health debates.

“We have a clear choice here,” Pence said.

“You know, somewhere in between where I’m sitting in Washington, D.C., and (you) Alaska, is a place called Canada. I probably don’t need to tell the people Alaska about the failings of national socialized health care because it’s right in our neighbour and you see the results every day.

“Look, we’ve got a choice: It’s between big government, Washington, D.C., solutions that ultimately, I believe, will collapse into single-payer health care – or whether or not we’re going to repeal the (Obamacare) individual mandate.”

READ MORE: Protesters in wheelchairs removed from U.S. Senate health-care hearing

Canada’s health system is known to suffer from long wait times, especially for elective procedures. On the other hand, Canadians not only have longer life expectancies, but also spend far less on health care than Americans according to World Bank data.

The Trump administration has just received a fresh round of bad news about its health-reform effort: After John McCain, Susan Collins became the latest senator Monday to say she opposes the Obamacare repeal bill, almost certainly dooming it.

The congressional budget office attempted to assess the bill, and released a preliminary report Monday. It said the legislation would end health coverage for millions, but reduce federal spending by more than US$133 billion over a decade.

But the non-partisan watchdog said it needed more time to properly analyze the bill – time it doesn’t have, because of the Republican rush to get a bill passed.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3769085/

Reddit naturally had a field day:  https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/72o0eg/mike_pence_warns_us_heading_for_canadastyle/?utm_content=comments&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=frontpage

 

[mariomike]

Mike Pence warns U.S. heading for Canada-style health care if Graham-Cassidy bill fails

https://globalnews.ca/news/3769085/

Reddit naturally had a field day:  https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/72o0eg/mike_pence_warns_us_heading_for_canadastyle/?utm_content=comments&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=frontpage

For example,

Ontario residents pay $45.00 for paramedic ambulance service.
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/publications/ohip/amb.aspx

"What does it cost to be transported via Gloucester ( Massachusetts ) Fire Department ambulance? Here are the city’s current base rates and added charges when applicable. All transports are provided only as emergency services; all rates are per trip:"

Basic life support: $1,513.84
Advanced life support: $1,797.44
Advanced life support, Level 2: $2,601.58
Mileage rate (applies to all): $46.08/mile
Supplies (oxygen, IV fluid etc.): $425
Extra EMT aboard: $600

Source: Gloucester ( Massachusetts ) Fire Department/EMS
https://www.ems1.com/ems-management/articles/115927048-Mass-city-owed-375K-in-fees-for-ambulance-services/

YMMV depending on US municipality.