Updated Army Service Dress project

[daftandbarmy]

The large crown was never a WO rank. Iy was an invention with unification. The army "Staff Sergeant" and the RCAF "flight sergeant" wore three stripes and a crown which no one could ever mistake for a major. Why someone at the time of unification thought that there was a need to turn a staff sergeant into a WO eludes me. I'm not certain, but the only WO rank at the time was in the air force where it was the equivalent of the army's CWO. Everyone else was some form of the sergeant rank.

There's a simple solution if we have so many confused people - go back to the "staff sergeant" rank and badge.

Confusingly

 

[Eaglelord17]

Although I agree that changes made in the last few years was unnecessary and made to please a few, still don't get the S1-S3 system , I am curious what law you refer to when stating legal ranks?

As Seakingtacco said. Listed here are the legal ranks of the Canadian Forces. Some sources online even reflect the need to update the QR&Os to make S3-S1 legal ranks but even though we are aware of the issue, refuse to do it. Basically ordering people to use S3-S1 is a unlawful order and defying the rule of parliament over the military.

QR&O: Volume I - Chapter 3 Rank, Seniority, Command and Precedence - Canada.ca

Queen's Regulations and Orders - QR&O - Chapter 3 - Rank, Seniority, Command and Precedence

www.canada.ca

 

[FSTO]

Was 2013 the year the pips and crowns came back? If that is true, we have officers and NCM's who have known nothing but pips and crowns, Executive Curls and Pearl Gray RCAF stripes.

 

[MJP]

Was 2013 the year the pips and crowns came back? If that is true, we have officers and NCM's who have known nothing but pips and crowns, Executive Curls and Pearl Gray RCAF stripes.

Indeed, which is why like @markppcli I giggle when someone tries to tell me I got my honour back when we roll back to some 1960s dress thing despite generations of serving folks wearing post unification uniforms.

Nothing screams unserious military more (IMHO) than focusing endlessly on a dress uniform they wear occasionally.

 

[FSTO]

Indeed, which is why like @markppcli I giggle when someone tries to tell me I got my honour back when we roll back to some 1960s dress thing despite generations of serving folks wearing post unification uniforms.

Nothing screams unserious military more (IMHO) than focusing endlessly on a dress uniform they wear occasionally.

I wear 3B 3 days a week, NECU on Wed, and then there is civy Friday.
Fashionista is I!

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Don't rank badges go on every order of uniform anyway?

 

[MJP]

Don't rank badges go on every order of uniform anyway?

They do, I am merely commenting on the subject of dress overall.

 

[dapaterson]

As Seakingtacco said. Listed here are the legal ranks of the Canadian Forces. Some sources online even reflect the need to update the QR&Os to make S3-S1 legal ranks but even though we are aware of the issue, refuse to do it. Basically ordering people to use S3-S1 is a unlawful order and defying the rule of parliament over the military.

QR&O: Volume I - Chapter 3 Rank, Seniority, Command and Precedence - Canada.ca

Queen's Regulations and Orders - QR&O - Chapter 3 - Rank, Seniority, Command and Precedence

www.canada.ca

The Army tended to do its rank improprieties on the down low, not making huge public announcements to signal virtue on the part of CRCN, then never bother to follow through on the implementation.

Flout the law quietly in private, not loudly in public.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The Army tended to do its rank improprieties on the down low, not making huge public announcements to signal virtue on the part of CRCN, then never bother to follow through on the implementation.

Flout the law quietly in private, not loudly in public.

Don’t get me wrong, I disagreed with the Army doing it as well. They mostly were just keeping things going from pre-unification (much like the Navy calling their sailors seamen and POs when legally they were privates, corporals and sgts). Either way it is wrong and should be condemned.

The law is what gives the CAF the authority to exist. Undermining that puts the whole chain of command from CDS down in a weak ethical position. The fact it has gone on as long as it has (3+ years at this point) and they are completely aware of it shows how weak and ineffective the militaries ‘leadership’ is.

 

[Blackadder1916]

The large crown was never a WO rank. Iy was an invention with unification. The army "Staff Sergeant" and the RCAF "flight sergeant" wore three stripes and a crown which no one could ever mistake for a major. Why someone at the time of unification thought that there was a need to turn a staff sergeant into a WO eludes me. I'm not certain, but the only WO rank at the time was in the air force where it was the equivalent of the army's CWO. Everyone else was some form of the sergeant rank.

There's a simple solution if we have so many confused people - go back to the "staff sergeant" rank and badge.

I disagree. There was a time (prior to '39 and thru the war, not sure when it was discontinued*) when there was an army rank of Warrant Officer Class III (W.O. III); it's rank badge was "a Crown". The other non-commissioned warrants (Canadian Army and RCAF - the warrants in the RCN, officers like US military were another story up to the early 1960s) were W.O. l , Coat of Arms badge (what became CWO) and W.O. II, Crown and laurel badge (became MWO). WO III filled appointments of "troop, section or platoon sergeant-major". Prior to WW2, the (austerity?) manning of infantry battalions called for W.O. IIIs to fill the pl comd positions of the AA, mortar and pioneer platoons in the HQ Coy and eight of the twelve rifle platoons in the rifle coys. The org chart in my reference (dated 1940) specifically notes that in future all platoons will be commanded by officers. There were W.O. IIIs in each of the gun troops of field regts, in addition to the officers.



* Reference is "Corporal To Field Officer", 4th Edition Amended Up To Date by Lieut-Colonel R.J.S. Langford, Late Commanding Officer The Royal Canadian Regiment and Late Commandant R.S.I. and M.G. Eastern Canada

 

[dapaterson]

Don’t get me wrong, I disagreed with the Army doing it as well. They mostly were just keeping things going from pre-unification (much like the Navy calling their sailors seamen and POs when legally they were privates, corporals and sgts). Either way it is wrong and should be condemned.

The law is what gives the CAF the authority to exist. Undermining that puts the whole chain of command from CDS down in a weak ethical position. The fact it has gone on as long as it has (3+ years at this point) and they are completely aware of it shows how weak and ineffective the militaries ‘leadership’ is.

Five years. And is it weak leadership, or contempt for the rule of law?

 

[lenaitch]

There's a simple solution if we have so many confused people - go back to the "staff sergeant" rank and badge.

Well, unless you are the RCMP:

 

[RangerRay]

Well, unless you are the RCMP:

View attachment 96273

There are a few other agencies, including WPS that use this for S/Sgt. Meanwhile some agencies refer to 3 hooks and a crown as just a Sergeant. It’s a mixed bag across the country.