Updated Army Service Dress project

[Navy_Pete]

I think "prototype" is an oopsie on my part. Sample is the right term.

Gotcha. Seems an awfully long time though, looked into getting some ballcaps made up for the team, and the turnaround was about two weeks for a lot of 20. If you do a big order, would be a lead time for the caps, but that's a big enough one that someone would happily do a run for you of the ballcaps.

 

[lenaitch]

If they don't word the RFQ properly, somebody's gonna argue their product is compliant

 

[ueo]

Or retask them to the fighting gear and flight suits department.

OMG feds covering and protecting variouis asses!

 

[dimsum]

OMG feds covering and protecting variouis asses!

I mean, the CAF issues underwear...

 

[TacticalTea]

Yeah, logO or MSEO makes sense, as it's the same as commanding a shore unit at that point. I believe it was still a gas station so having a logO is good.

For ships in DWPs having an NWO XO is good as it makes sure someone else can run the random personnel issues.

Agreed. Typically the officer of a non-operational ship will be titled OIC.

It's a great XO posting for an NWO as you still pretty much get all the experience of an XO, minus having to be away from your family. And, having a LogO/MSEO take up OIC ensures an NWO's command isn't ''wasted'' alongside.

 

[Kilted]

I think "prototype" is an oopsie on my part. Sample is the right term.

Wait the Air Force wants to wear ball caps with CadPat? Why don't they just finally go out get their own operational uniform. When I am CAFCWO, there will be no shortage of CadPat/whatever we call it then, because the Air Force and Navy won't be allowed to wear it.

Also, this is about the new Army DEU, why are we talking about ball caps and whatever it is that the boat people wear?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Wait the Air Force wants to wear ball caps with CadPat? Why don't they just finally go out get their own operational uniform.

You mean like flying clothing?

When I am CAFCWO, there will be no shortage of CadPat/whatever we call it then, because the Air Force and Navy won't be allowed to wear it.

I think that decision is above the CWO level…

But I bet lots of blue DEU folks would love to have a modern workdress for hangers and flight lines; a comfortable coverall and a 2 piece option - a warm and cold weather version of each.

The CADPAT the techs can get issued is different from Army CADPAT so I’m guessing the Army doesn’t pay a cent for that.

Also, this is about the new Army DEU, why are we talking about ball caps and whatever it is that the boat people wear?

Tradition?

 

[dimsum]

Wait the Air Force wants to can wear ball caps with CadPat?

Once they're out, yes.

Why don't they just finally go out get their own operational uniform. When I am CAFCWO, there will be no shortage of CadPat/whatever we call it then, because the Air Force and Navy won't be allowed to wear it.

Uh, ok? The RCN hardly wears it at all, and the RCAF paid into the CADPAT order so the amounts covered both services. So if the RCAF breaks off and has RCAFPAT, the CA will have the same issues getting kit because the order will be smaller.

Also, this is about the new Army DEU, why are we talking about ball caps and whatever it is that the boat people wear?

Because this is a discussion forum and discussions drift.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Also, this is about the new Army DEU, why are we talking about ball caps and whatever it is that the boat people wear?

For three reasons:

First, the RCAF always thinks that everything is about them, thus their involvement;

Second, the RCN thinks it's the end all be all when it comes to fashion (Hey! We introduced single earrings for people who identify as male centuries before it became fashionable), hence their involvement; and,

Third, the Army couldn't keep a thread going for 18 pages discussing a uniform they hardly ever wear.



P.S. Kilted: Air Forces and Navies all around the world, which are not "unified" like Canada's, wear their respective Army's combat clothing when the situation warrants. This is not just a Canadian situation.

 

[dimsum]

First, the RCAF always thinks knows that everything is about them, thus their involvement;

P.S. Kilted: Air Forces and Navies all around the world, which are not "unified" like Canada's, wear their respective Army's combat clothing when the situation warrants. This is not just a Canadian situation.

Good point.

 

[markppcli]

1968 was 55 years ago. An 18 year old issued khakis in 1967 and required to switch to greens in 1968 is now 73 years old. Don't know there are many 73 year olds still serving.

You can blame us boomers for a lot but I suspect this is all Millenial.

Probably Gen X

Infairness the mint green shirt is a sin against man, and what ever gods anyone ever worshipped. And that my friend is firmly on your generation.


All I want is a follow up policy banning the sale of mandatory uniform accoutrements for DEUs. “Welcome to the regiment, that’ll be 130 for your pins and buttons” shouldn’t be a thing.

 

[markppcli]

Not sure how that rumour started, but I have on pretty good authority that the prototype was fine.

The issue was, and remains, the company (CANEX doesn't make the stuff they sell) not being able to make the amounts required at the time.

Are stuck with TACTIX the company owned by a former senior officer who gets to make all our badges? I’m sure the new wave of authorized patches hasn’t been a boon to their personal finances at all

 

[Kirkhill]

Probably Gen X

Infairness the mint green shirt is a sin against man, and what ever gods anyone ever worshipped. And that my friend is firmly on your generation.


All I want is a follow up policy banning the sale of mandatory uniform accoutrements for DEUs. “Welcome to the regiment, that’ll be 130 for your pins and buttons” shouldn’t be a thing.

I liked my mint green shirts.

They stood out nicely against the burnt orange of the era - We knew our colours....

 

[dapaterson]

The CADPAT the techs can get issued is different from Army CADPAT so I’m guessing the Army doesn’t pay a cent for that.

The Army doesn't pay a cent for any of its uniforms - nor does any other organization.

ADM Mat manages that through the national procurement budget; clothing is from the NP Common account.

Growing more types of uniforms means you'll need more folks in procurement, managing more styles / more contracts. The CADPAT convergence for CA/RCAF means less staff required to sustain. You want to divorce the two? Fine. You'll need more procurement folks for clothing.

 

[dimsum]

Are stuck with TACTIX the company owned by a former senior officer who gets to make all our badges? I’m sure the new wave of authorized patches hasn’t been a boon to their personal finances at all

DB Embroidery enters the chat

But, are all those mandatory? Folks can buy authorized patches, but the mandatory ones (nametag, Canada flag, rank, wings for aircrew) are given by the supply system. If folks don't want the Tactix or DBES patches, they don't have to get them.

The Regt (or whatever) can use the the "highly encouraged" route but we all know how well that turned out for the RCCS*

*apologies to folks who had to go through that dumbassery

 

[Halifax Tar]

For three reasons:

First, the RCAF always thinks that everything is about them, thus their involvement;

Second, the RCN thinks it's the end all be all when it comes to fashion (Hey! We introduced single earrings for people who identify as male centuries before it became fashionable), hence their involvement; and,

Third, the Army couldn't keep a thread going for 18 pages discussing a uniform they hardly ever wear.



P.S. Kilted: Air Forces and Navies all around the world, which are not "unified" like Canada's, wear their respective Army's combat clothing when the situation warrants. This is not just a Canadian situation.

The RCN has used Army uniform when since at least WW2. The RCN used Battle Dress for its Naval Commandos, there was a similar black dyed uniform; and for its field portion of its only recruit training. Also I'm an RCN member and I wear CADPAT every day to my job with the Army.

WW2 Canadian Navy RCN Battle Dress Jacket Dyed from Army BD 1

WW2 Canadian Navy RCN Battle Dress Jacket Dyed from Army BD 1. PLEASE NOTE THAT SOME DISHONEST PERSON HAS TAKEN A ARMY BATTLEDRESS AND DYED IT BLACK TO TRY AND PASS IT OFF AS NAVY. IT IS NOT NAVY

militaryantiquestoronto.com

*this is a fraudulent example of what was a real uniform.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Also I'm an RCN member and I wear CADPAT every day to my job with the Army.

Which, if I recall correctly is against a CANFORGEN that was issued about four years ago that required personnel issued with the Naval DEU to wear the NCD when working in an Army/RCAF setting where combat is the dress order of the day, unless there is an operational requirement to wear the CADPAT. Looking like all the other people wearing CADPAT for uniformity sake was not considered an operational requirement.

Unless that CANFORGEN has been recinded since?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Which, if I recall correctly is against a CANFORGEN that was issued about four years ago that required personnel issued with the Naval DEU to wear the NCD when working in an Army/RCAF setting where combat is the dress order of the day, unless there is an operational requirement to wear the CADPAT. Looking like all the other people wearing CADPAT for uniformity sake was not considered an operational requirement.

Unless that CANFORGEN has been recinded since?

I knew it would be you who called me out lol

 

[Furniture]

Which, if I recall correctly is against a CANFORGEN that was issued about four years ago that required personnel issued with the Naval DEU to wear the NCD when working in an Army/RCAF setting where combat is the dress order of the day, unless there is an operational requirement to wear the CADPAT. Looking like all the other people wearing CADPAT for uniformity sake was not considered an operational requirement.

Unless that CANFORGEN has been recinded since?

It's CANFORGEN 198/09, and it hasn't been rescinded.

I had this discussion a few times over the last year, as my occupation had a couple units forcing Jr sailors to wear CADPAT.

 

[markppcli]

DB Embroidery enters the chat

But, are all those mandatory? Folks can buy authorized patches, but the mandatory ones (nametag, Canada flag, rank, wings for aircrew) are given by the supply system. If folks don't want the Tactix or DBES patches, they don't have to get them.

The Regt (or whatever) can use the the "highly encouraged" route but we all know how well that turned out for the RCCS*

*apologies to folks who had to go through that dumbassery

Forcing people to buy pins and buttons and pt is alive and well.