US Election: 2016

[MilEME09]

My biggest question is will he follow through with everything he has said about NATO? which could go bad for the alliance

 

[mariomike]

They say the government you elect is the government you deserve,

‘Not my president’: Protests erupt after Trump victory
http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/protests-erupt-in-california-after-trump-victory/

 

[dapaterson]

As with any new job, he's in for a huge learning curve.  And will be confronted with "Events, dear boy, events!" which may well pull him away from the various and contradictory promises made on the campaign trail.  (Note: that's no different from anyone else campaigning - promises made may overlap, may contradict, and are frequently broad enough that they can mean many different things to many different people)

I hope that when people vote it's not for "He'll do what I want" but more for "I trust him to do the best when things happen".  In other words, campaign promises should be read as "This is the direction I intend to follow" more than "This is the slavish direction I will follow regardless of unconsidered consequences".

 

[Brad Sallows]

Most of what politicians and journalists refer to as "plans" are really aspirational statements.  Most of Trumps "promises" were just emotion-stoking rhetoric too ludicrous to be taken seriously (eg. build a wall and make Mexico pay for it), but his most unhinged critics hold them up as Things You Will Be Sorry For.  (Really?  How exactly does he bring them to fruition?  Do those people have the foggiest schmick about who controls what in the US system of government?)

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yup.
The US needs to sink a few million dollars into building more safe places and setting up hotlines for people who have been triggered by the election.
Don't want all those special snowflakes to melt eh?

 

[dimsum]

A friend put this up on FB, and it makes more sense to me than most of the "analysis" on the MSM:

A government of the people, for the people, by the people. The people spoke last night, and the message is clear, they want change, and they want it very very bad.

To Canadians, and perhaps much of the world this doesn't make any sense, but if you look closely and try to understand the American people, and their history it makes eminent sense.

----------

1) They are a country born of war, a war to over throw an oppressive government that refused to listen to their concerns.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

The current government while well meaning has not been good to the US people. American stature in the world is falling, unemployment is up, and government intervention is high, debt is too high, violence is high, etc etc. A great number of people feel they are under attack, and their government has not done anything to stop it, or in some cases is the attacker.

-------------

2) Their constitution has also built in checks and balances to try to attempt any one person from becoming too powerful.

The House and the Senate must both agree, the President must also agree, and the Supreme Court must also agree for a law to work.

A President can veto a law, The congress can over-turn a veto, and the Supreme Court can overturn anything. The states each hold significant powers to balance the federal government. The President appoints the supreme court, but the senate must confirm them, and the house of representatives can impeach the President. There are safety values, that even with Republicans holding all branches should still work. It has in the past, and I am sure will in the future.

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3) Their constitution has been amended to ensure they are able to throw off the shackles of a government that is seen to oppress them:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

These three things make the US person a different kind of person than a Canadian. We Canadians were born of a country from law, we did not have to throw off our shackles, and fight, we simply asked for permission through a series of laws to become self-governing, and eventually we matured to the point to do it on our own. We have no built in right to overthrow our government if they oppress us, we have what we have, and we like it.

-----------

What does it all come down to?

The US inherently do not trust their government to do what is in their best interest. Government is seen as a necessity that must be controlled rather than allow it to control you.

In Canada we are inherently trusting of our government, and that they will do what is in our best interest to protect us. We do not mind, and in fact desire more intervention from the government because it has worked for us in the past.

This is neither good nor bad in both cases. They are merely different means to a similar ends. A democratic society that grew up under differing circumstances, and thus make us ever so slightly different, and yet almost indistinguishable to the world as brothers and sisters.

-------------

So this bring me to last night:

A people who inherently mistrust their government were presented with two options.

1) a career politician with questionable trustworthiness, who can be proven to change her mind as fast as the polls change, who has had questionable ethical dealings, and is seen as a powerful political elite that stands above the average person, who took for granted they were the natural successor to the current executive. A policy of continuing policies that are losing jobs, costing money, and not seemingly making the American people any better off.

She was not one of the people, she was above the people. So to make her President would not be a government OF the people, for the people by the people!

2) a man who is largely recognized as reasonably successful in business (learn about what the pursuit of happiness means in the constitution). A man who while also a liar, was seen and known to be a liar, but not seen as above the law. Not seen as interfering with the natural justice. A man in stark contrast to the current administration. A man seen as just another guy who says shit that politicians don't say, but in reality, speaks plain as day like so many of the people.

Thus, in my estimation the American people have merely done what they have been taught to do, what their history demands they do, and what their very being asks them to do. Throw off the shackles of a failing system, and give something new a chance. They did not trust Clinton, nor Trump, but Trump represents chance, and not the established political power house. The current system is failing, so why not try something else.

And there lies the confusion in most Canadians. We cannot imagine throwing a government out simply to try something new, and while we may mistrust our politicians in some ways, we still inherently believe they are looking out for us. We like the steady course, we like the less confrontational choice, we like the status quo even if the status quo is hurting us (see Ontario and Alberta and Newfoundland these days).

--------------

So to my Canadian friends and family, yes it was an outcome of an election that shocked us, but when you consider the why and how, it makes perfect sense, and who are we to judge?

To my American Friends and family, I wish you luck over the coming four years. I hope you can heal the damage that this election cycle has likely caused, and come together to surge forward. Our countries are so entwined that our success is entirely dependent on your success.
To the US Congress, and Supreme Court, your duty is clear. Regardless of political party, the American Forefather charged you with the power to balance the President. Never in your history has this been more critical than now. The good of the people who elected you must guide your choices, and do not be afraid to invoke a super majority vote to overturn a presidential veto if need be.

 

[Jed]

As with any new job, he's in for a huge learning curve.  And will be confronted with "Events, dear boy, events!" which may well pull him away from the various and contradictory promises made on the campaign trail.  (Note: that's no different from anyone else campaigning - promises made may overlap, may contradict, and are frequently broad enough that they can mean many different things to many different people)

I hope that when people vote it's not for "He'll do what I want" but more for "I trust him to do the best when things happen".  In other words, campaign promises should be read as "This is the direction I intend to follow" more than "This is the slavish direction I will follow regardless of unconsidered consequences".

Oh you mean, totally unlike the approach now taken by JT's government ?

 

[mariomike]

Who voted for Donald Trump?
http://globalnews.ca/news/3057298/who-voted-for-donald-trump/

 

[Kirkhill]

Who voted for Donald Trump?
http://globalnews.ca/news/3057298/who-voted-for-donald-trump/

Crap!

http://army.ca/forums/threads/108210/post-1463065.html#msg1463065

This was not about groups.  It was about individuals making choices.

 

[mariomike]

Crap!

Not arguing politics with you, Chris. I just know what I read in the papers. 

 

[ModlrMike]

On the subject of civil unrest, I'm much more concerned about violence and rioting in the face of a Clinton defeat than I am about a Trump defeat.

Sometimes it's easy being right: http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/flag-burned-as-protests-breakout-across-the-us

 

[QV]

Not arguing politics with you, Chris. I just know what I read in the papers. 

So long as a key take away from this election cycle is just because it's printed doesn't make it true.

 

[Kirkhill]

Not arguing politics with you, Chris. I just know what I read in the papers. 

Seen Mike.

Just arguing with what I saw in the papers.  ;D

Interesting map from the New York Times.

Results by County.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

Curiosity.  Apparently 93% of DC voted Democrat.

 

[mariomike]

So long as a key take away from this election cycle is just because it's printed doesn't make it true.

I treat opinions I read on anonymous internet forums with respect, but also with a grain of salt and a sense of humour. 

 

[QV]

Seen Mike.

Just arguing with what I saw in the papers.  ;D

Interesting map from the New York Times.

Results by County.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

Curiosity.  Apparently 93% of the swamp voted Democrat.

FTFY

 

[mariomike]

Idiots marching & screaming in Union Square and Columbus Circle too stupid to realise the election is over.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Donald-Trump-New-York-City-Reaction-Protests-Union-Square-Columbus-Circle-NYC-400546271.html

 

[Chispa]

Chispa, here is what I see happening and it isn't WW3.  At least from a Canadian perspective.

1.  Keystone gets approved.  Yay us.  Alberta needs this and the Liberals will claim a victory the Conservatives couldn't achieve.
2. NAFTA will remain in place.  To many internal issue sin the US for him to scrap it.
3. However TPP will be dead or severely diminished. 
4. We might actually see the dismantling of NATO.  Depends on how NATO partners react to having to pay up. What might rise from the ashes is another issue.
5. Expect civil unrest as various groups protest the repealing of certain social rights, gay marriage, Roe v. Wade etc.
6. Expect environmentalists to go more bat crazy
7. Expect applications for immigration to Canada. Not in huge waves but I fully expect some leftist trying to claim political asylum.
8. Expect the US to withdraw from some theatres and reduce its military presence world wide. We might actually have to really buy things this to make up for this.
9. Expect the Conservative leadership race to have some candidates try and emulate Trump.
10.  expect the DNC to look hard for their next hero.

That's my short list. It's not all bad, it's not all good.  But it is what it is.  Canada will have to decide how it wants to work within this new reality.

Think it's 60 votes for the senate, revoking or getting out of NAFTA is plausible, however will take time and legal maneuvering, etc....

No. 4, 5, I'm good with and as FR 6 U GT THT right, while No.8 that's what Trump wants, like LBJ “We are not about to send American boys
nine or ten thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves.”


Did U know LBJ was a pervert, exhibitionist, when possible, willing to showoff his best friend "Jumbo," & that's what he called it [lol:


C.U.

 

[Chispa]

Tomahawk6 gave moi an idea: To the Mods, Etc., A thread posted on Trump in Office, styled as fallows….

``El Presidente`` Donald J. Trump`s First 100 Days in Office.

Well…. Small protests on the streets reported today, a score of world leaders contacted Trump congratulating on his victory, while some asking too see him during the transition period.

Meeting with Mexican president P Nieto confirmed, while Chine as other Asian states called emergency meetings alarmed by Trumps victory.

EU foreign ministers will hold a special meeting to assess the fallout from the U.S. presidential election victory of Donald Trump, according to a diplomatic source.

http://www.politico.eu/article/eu-foreign-ministers-to-hold-special-meeting-after-donald-trump-victory-frank-walter-steinmeier/

China Responds to U.S. Election With Heavy Censorship, Light Schadenfreude.
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7572627/china-reaction-donald-trump-election

Russia's autocratic leader Vladimir Putin offered warm congratulations and seized on the opportunity to urge Trump to help him get "U.S.-Russia relations out of their critical condition."

But EU leaders Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker invited him to an EU-U.S. summit at his "earliest convenience" to seek reassurances about trans-Atlantic ties.

And NATO head Jens Stoltenberg warned Trump, who spoke during the campaign of making U.S. allies take a bigger share of the Western security burden, that "U.S. leadership is more important than ever."

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asia/japan/2016/11/10/483513/Nikkei-battered.htm


.

 

[Kirkhill]

Trump should tell Juncker, Tusk and Schulz that he would be happy to meet with him should they have they opportunity to visit Washington.

Home turf.

 

[cupper]

Trump should tell Juncker, Tusk and Schulz that he would be happy to meet with him should they have they opportunity to visit Washington. Trump Tower, New Youk City

Home turf.

FTFY  [