US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[Lumber]

Anne Applebaum on the language of fascism.

On vermin

Some closing thoughts

anneapplebaum.substack.com

This article pretty much sums up my views as perfectly as can be done. I have to share a few of my favourite parts:

These are intelligent, well-read Trump supporters; they also hear the echoes from history, but they don’t want to draw conclusions from what they are hearing. They belittle, undermine, excuse and ignore his language, his scorn for the rule of law, his allusions to violence and his constant predictions of chaos because if they were to take this language seriously, then they would also have to draw uncomfortable conclusions about themselves.

At an event with Tucker Carlson on Thursday, he called for violence against Liz Cheney: "Let's put her with a rifle standing there with 9 barrels shooting at her. Let's see how she feels about it. You know, when the guns are trained on her face."

You are meant to accept this language and behavior, to consider this kind of rhetoric ‘baked in’ to any Trump campaign. You are supposed to just get used to the idea that Trump wishes he had ‘Hitler’s generals’ or that he uses the Stalinist phrase ‘enemies of the people’ to describe his opponents. Because once you think that’s normal, then you’ll accept the next step. Even when that next step is an assault on democracy and the rule of law.’”

And if Trump wins? He and the people around him have already told us what they will do. They will seek to transform the federal government into a loyalty machine that serves the interests of himself and his cronies. This was the essence of the Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025, and it will become reality.

 

[QV]

This article pretty much sums up my views as perfectly as can be done. I have to share a few of my favourite parts:

And every one of your favorite parts is misconstrued or taken out of context.

 

[Lumber]

And every one of your favorite parts is misconstrued or taken out of context.

Why are you Trump fans always gas lighting? What part was taken out of context?

Any of these?

“Very fine people on both sides”
“Grab ‘em by the Pussy.”
“I like people who weren’t captured”
“Stand back and stand by”
“Shithole countries”
“They’re savage animals”
"A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”
“They’re poisoning the blood of our country."
"Well, I’m going to do it, whether the women like it or not."
“I think the bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people. Radical left lunatics. I think it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military, because they can’t let that happen.”... “I think the bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people. Radical left lunatics. I think it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military, because they can’t let that happen.”
"I said I want to be a dictator for one day. "
“(Kim Jong Un is) the head of a country, and I mean he is the strong head. Don’t let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same.”

 

[QV]

Why are you Trump fans always gas lighting? What part was taken out of context?

Any of these?

“Very fine people on both sides”
“Grab ‘em by the Pussy.”
“I like people who weren’t captured”
“Stand back and stand by”
“Shithole countries”
“They’re savage animals”
"A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”
“They’re poisoning the blood of our country."
"Well, I’m going to do it, whether the women like it or not."
“I think the bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people. Radical left lunatics. I think it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military, because they can’t let that happen.”... “I think the bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people. Radical left lunatics. I think it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military, because they can’t let that happen.”
"I said I want to be a dictator for one day. "
“(Kim Jong Un is) the head of a country, and I mean he is the strong head. Don’t let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same.”

Yes, all of those and far more. The first one for example where the DNC/establishment stated Trump praised neo-nazis has been widely debunked and you can watch his full statement yourself. But nobody is going to systemically go through your list point by point today - it's been done over and over these last several years. If you still believe Trump praised neo-nazis despite the available evidence, that's your cognitive issue. Same goes for all the rest and the spin/splice/twist. Nobody cares.

 

[Jarnhamar]

... glitches or anomalies ever only impact Trump...

Just seen a couple interesting videos. One had Trump's name on the ballot spelled wrong, which begs the question will all those votes for Truimp" be void?

And in the second video it shows someone hitting the box to select Trump 4 or 5 times. They try it again, clearly hitting Trumps box, and it auto-selects Harris.

I haven't seen any impacting Harris, though I'm not looking for it either.

Logically it stands to reason both sides are desperate to win and going to cheat where they can.

 

[Brad Sallows]

People who appeal to the "echoes of history" to gin up fear should know that back when fascism was novel and the economic and social conditions in many developed countries were more unsettled, fascism didn't thrive in many places. Germany and Italy stand out as exceptions. In particular, despite prominent people in the US - including FDR - expressing degrees of attraction to parts of fascism, the US didn't fall to it. Neither did Britain. If a person really pays attention to the "echoes of history", the prospect of fascism now is much less than the prospect of fascism then.

Jan 6th wasn't a Beer Hall Putsch. Trump didn't march at the head of a gang of formally organized (armed and uniformed in part) supporters, to take a bunch of politicians prisoner with hopes of initiating violent revolution.

Events of the past cannot always be contorted to even approximately fit events of the present. Any conclusions or speculations drawn are garbage. The panicked Chicken Little alarmism ought to stop, at least among people with brains larger than a chicken's.

Stop relying on incomplete definitions of fascism. If you want to understand fascism, study Mussolini's Italy. Even Nazism wasn't a complete program of fascism. If a latter day definition doesn't match the original, it isn't fascism.

 

[Brad Sallows]

And in the second video it shows someone hitting the box to select Trump 4 or 5 times. They try it again, clearly hitting Trumps box, and it auto-selects Harris.

If such a thing could be shown to exist, it wouldn't make any sense. There is no "default" appropriate to a ballot selection. It wouldn't be deliberately designed unless maliciously, and it would be absurdly easy to test. It sounds contrived.

The first question to ask when viewing "evidence" on the web is, "Could this be sh!t someone made up?"
The second question is "Would this person have a motivation for making sh!t up?"

 

[Jarnhamar]

The first question to ask when viewing "evidence" on the web is, "Could this be sh!t someone made up?"
The second question is "Would this person have a motivation for making sh!t up?"

I've certainly been fooled before. I'll send you a DM with the link to take a look.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Why are you Trump fans always gas lighting? What part was taken out of context?

Any of these?

Yes, some of them. You've been fooled.

 

[Lumber]

Yes, some of them. You've been fooled.

Care to be more specific?

 

[QV]

I went ahead and did just that, and you know what? You're right, I absolutely could relate to him. I have kids of similar ages to him, and the stories they told and the excitement/love in their faces as they told stories about their kids reminded me of how I feel about my own children.

It did not, however, change my opinion of his suitability to be POTUS.

Maybe we can be friends after all. Though we would wildly disagree on a range of political topics.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Care to be more specific?

"Very fine people". See Snopes.

"Well, I’m going to do it, whether the women like it or not." He was talking about criminal migrants. Harris - not one of her minions - spun it as if it had something to do with abortion. If women want to object to the paternalistic tone of being protected from crime and violence, fine; but, the entire abortion angle is false. My web searches overwhelmingly come up with media articles which mention the short phrase and the abortion frame.

"I think it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military". He was talking about civil disorder. Yet again, online articles are awash with efforts to link that to something he might do to political and other ideological opponents. In particular, they try to frame it using the "enemies within" phrase he spoke later in the interview. Use of the NG in what we call "aide to the civil power" is uncontroversial. There is also authority (emergency powers) to use regular armed forces, "if necessary".

How the f*ck can media be taken seriously when they are exhibiting conduct that is dishonest to the bone - either accepting and promulgating a manifestly incorrect framing from a politician, or creating their own?