US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[OldSolduer]

Roxham Road started being a thing in 2017.


NYC is a huge city and still a highlight of the US. It’s not exactly suffering, in that respect.

It’s like folks claiming that Seattle or Minneapolis is a smoking hole in the ground because of the 2020 riots. Have you guys gone there? It would be rather hard to miss a city like Seattle in ruins.

I’m just waiting for the “migrant caravan” to show up…

I was in Minneapolis a year ago - nothing untoward that I saw.

 

[Halifax Tar]

In case anyone doubts the Taylor Swift effect…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1834354779549467087

Getting closer and closer to Idiocracy every day.

 

[KevinB]

When MTG is making sense, you have to wonder…

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[dimsum]

Getting closer and closer to Idiocracy every day.

I’m not sure how a hugely influential person getting people to vote is all that novel.

Celebrities using their status to make people aware of things has been around since there were celebrities.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Deleted

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’m not sure how a hugely influential person getting people to vote is all that novel.

Celebrities using their status to make people aware of things has been around since there were celebrities.

It's the drama behind who she would support and the sudden mass of people who move in the direction she dictates.

And it's not just her. She's just the example at hand.

 

[Remius]

I’m not sure how a hugely influential person getting people to vote is all that novel.

Celebrities using their status to make people aware of things has been around since there were celebrities.

Or any type of influence.

Wayne Gretzky is used in gambling adds for a reason. Tom Selleck shilling for reverse mortgages isn’t just because. Ice T selling auto insurance is no coincidence either.

Celebrity endorsements have always be sought and used.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Or any type of influence.

Wayne Gretzky is used in gambling adds for a reason. Tom Selleck shilling for reverse mortgages isn’t just because. Ice T selling auto insurance is no coincidence either.

Celebrity endorsements have always be sought and used.

I'm fine with celebrities' being used to sell products. I don't think much of them already, so further pimping themselves out for some product doesn't bother me.

But stay out of politics.

 

[Remius]

I'm fine with celebrities' being used to sell products. I don't think much of them already, so further pimping themselves out for some product doesn't bother me.

But stay out of politics.

But why? What is it that makes it so celebrities should not be able to express their political opinions as opposed to every other citizen that can enjoy that same right?

 

[Halifax Tar]

But why? What is it that makes it so celebrities should not be able to express their political opinions as opposed to every other citizen that can enjoy that same right?

I don't trust them to do what's right for country and the people. I also think our population is, generally, stupid and weak and easily led astray by celebrity. I think one of the great blights on our society is the worship of professional athlete and celebrity.

 

[Remius]

I don't trust them to do what's right for country and the people.

That’s an opinion that one can have. That doesn’t justify muting someone’s freedom of political opinion. Follow on question: how would something like that be enforced/measured about who can say what and when. Celebrities are private enterprises and brands, how does one extend a rule that prevents their opinions from being expressed? Like any business, they can express themselves but they suffer or reap the consequences of that expression. That seems to be the control factor currently in place.

I also think our population is, generally, stupid and weak and easily led astray by celebrity. I think one of the great blights on our society is the worship of professional athlete and celebrity.

That is something that goes back quite a while though. People with influence have always been « worshiped ».

Spartacus was a professional athlete who led a massive rebellion (debatable if that is really what it was but I digress). That was 2000 years ago.

Plenty of poets and writers and artists have had influence over all of history. Celebrity is generally worshipped and depending on the timeframe shifts from certain actions or professions to another.

 

[dimsum]

I don't trust them to do what's right for country and the people. I also think our population is, generally, stupid and weak and easily led astray by celebrity. I think one of the great blights on our society is the worship of professional athlete and celebrity.

While I agree in principle, this blight isn’t limited to North American or even modern society.

Gladiators in the Roman Empire were celebrities.

But, back to modern times, this is the full quote of her endorsement. Emphasis mine.

Like many of you, I watched the debate tonight. If you haven’t already, now is a great time to do your research on the issues at hand and the stances these candidates take on the topics that matter to you the most. As a voter, I make sure to watch and read everything I can about their proposed policies and plans for this country.

Recently I was made aware that AI of ‘me’ falsely endorsing Donald Trump’s presidential run was posted to his site. It really conjured up my fears around AI, and the dangers of spreading misinformation. It brought me to the conclusion that I need to be very transparent about my actual plans for this election as a voter. The simplest way to combat misinformation is with the truth.

I will be casting my vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz in the 2024 Presidential Election. I’m voting for @kamalaharris because she fights for the rights and causes I believe need a warrior to champion them. I think she is a steady-handed, gifted leader and I believe we can accomplish so much more in this country if we are led by calm and not chaos. I was so heartened and impressed by her selection of running mate @timwalz, who has been standing up for LGBTQ+ rights, IVF, and a woman’s right to her own body for decades.

I’ve done my research, and I’ve made my choice. Your research is all yours to do, and the choice is yours to make. I also want to say, especially to first time voters: Remember that in order to vote, you have to be registered! I also find it’s much easier to vote early. I’ll link where to register and find early voting dates and info in my story.

With love and hope,

Taylor Swift
Childless Cat Lady

The highlighted bits are the important part to me. Reading past the “Swift endorses Harris” headlines (because we all do that here, right?), she specifically says to do your own research and make your own choice. The link she provides is for voter registration in general, not for any specific party.

The AI part is interesting too because it is the catalyst for her doing so. If that part didn’t happen, she may have endorsed Harris anyway but now there is a concrete reason for Taylor Swift to pick one candidate over another.

I’m guessing most Swifties, based on their demographics, would be Dem supporters. But, she specifically says that she is voting for Harris, and she doesn’t say one way or another (or even suggest it) to her supporters. That is a big difference than a celeb saying “X is good and you should vote for them”.

 

[brihard]

I'm fine with celebrities' being used to sell products. I don't think much of them already, so further pimping themselves out for some product doesn't bother me.

But stay out of politics.

Thing is, they have the same rights to free expression as anyone else. Unless you repress their free speech rights and democratic rights, what you’re saying cannot be forced.

Simply being “a celebrity” just means you have an existing audience, maybe relatively modest, maybe immense. It doesn’t mean there is any greater or any lesser quality to your own political thoughts, it just means more people are listening to them. But that’s a quintessential requirement of a candidate anyway. If you cannot drum up an audience you won’t drum up votes. So of course candidates will seek endorsements from people who already have those audiences. Sometimes people with those audiences will throw their hat in the ring too.

Ronald Reagan was a Hollywood actor and president of the Screen Actors Guild before being elected governor of California and then President of the United States. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Ventura parlayed celebrity status into governorships. Donald Trump was, of course, a celebrity candidate for President with no prior political experience, and his celebrity status was essential to getting elected.

It is what it is. Everyone gets the same vote. Everyone is free to vote for the smartest or dumbest reasons imaginable.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Thing is, they have the same rights to free expression as anyone else. Unless you repress their free speech rights and democratic rights, what you’re saying cannot be forced.

Simply being “a celebrity” just means you have an existing audience, maybe relatively modest, maybe immense. It doesn’t mean there is any greater or any lesser quality to your own political thoughts, it just means more people are listening to them. But that’s a quintessential requirement of a candidate anyway. If you cannot drum up an audience you won’t drum up votes. So of course candidates will seek endorsements from people who already have those audiences. Sometimes people with those audiences will throw their hat in the ring too.

Ronald Reagan was a Hollywood actor and president of the Screen Actors Guild before being elected governor of California and then President of the United States. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Ventura parlayed celebrity status into governorships. Donald Trump was, of course, a celebrity candidate for President with no prior political experience, and his celebrity status was essential to getting elected.

It is what it is. Everyone gets the same vote. Everyone is free to vote for the smartest or dumbest reasons imaginable.

They can vote how ever they want. What I dont want is them telling others how to vote.

That’s an opinion that one can have. That doesn’t justify muting someone’s freedom of political opinion. Follow on question: how would something like that be enforced/measured about who can say what and when. Celebrities are private enterprises and brands, how does one extend a rule that prevents their opinions from being expressed? Like any business, they can express themselves but they suffer or reap the consequences of that expression. That seems to be the control factor currently in place.

Exactly how much influence do you think I have ? Its just my opinion. You're free to ignore it.

That is something that goes back quite a while though. People with influence have always been « worshiped ».

Spartacus was a professional athlete who led a massive rebellion (debatable if that is really what it was but I digress). That was 2000 years ago.

Plenty of poets and writers and artists have had influence over all of history. Celebrity is generally worshipped and depending on the timeframe shifts from certain actions or professions to another.

I would argue modern celebrity combined with todays modern and social media have made it a different, further reaching, more impactful beast.

While I agree in principle, this blight isn’t limited to North American or even modern society.

Gladiators in the Roman Empire were celebrities.

But, back to modern times, this is the full quote of her endorsement. Emphasis mine.


The highlighted bits are the important part to me. Reading past the “Swift endorses Harris” headlines (because we all do that here, right?), she specifically says to do your own research and make your own choice. The link she provides is for voter registration in general, not for any specific party.

The AI part is interesting too because it is the catalyst for her doing so. If that part didn’t happen, she may have endorsed Harris anyway but now there is a concrete reason for Taylor Swift to pick one candidate over another.

I’m guessing most Swifties, based on their demographics, would be Dem supporters. But, she specifically says that she is voting for Harris, and she doesn’t say one way or another (or even suggest it) to her supporters. That is a big difference than a celeb saying “X is good and you should vote for them”.

She is free to say what she wants, and I am free to wish she would stick to crappy break up songs and stay out of politics.

 

[dimsum]

She is free to say what she wants, and I am free to wish she would stick to crappy break up songs and stay out of politics.

absolutely. But as you said, she is free to say what she wants. And she’s exercising that right.

 

[Halifax Tar]

absolutely. But as you said, she is free to say what she wants. And she’s exercising that right.

Is there an echo in here ?

 

[brihard]

They can vote how ever they want. What I dont want is them telling others how to vote.

Too bad, I guess?

Although as Dimsum pointed out, Swift didn’t actually do that. She endorsed her choice and encouraged everyone to do their own research and make their own.

 

[Remius]

They can vote how ever they want. What I dont want is them telling others how to vote.

Would that be limited to just them or everyone? Like you I’m not a fan of people telling people how they should vote. Worse for me me is vilifying those that vote certain ways. But I’m fine with people trying to convince people to vote a certain way. That’s the nature of the democratic process.

Exactly how much influence do you think I have ? Its just my opinion. You're free to ignore it.

I didn’t think it was anything but your opinion. You have as much influence as I do I would suspect. I am also free to engage with your opinion. My question still stands in regard to your world view. How would something like muting celebrity influence be enforced or even be in the spirit of freedom of expression? As I mentioned, consequence is normally the control factor in their case.

I would argue modern celebrity combined with todays modern and social media have made it a different, further reaching, more impactful beast.

That is true. But those same factors are also things that can counter their influence. Something that didn’t happen before to the same effect. Celebrities can rise fast but they can fall just as fast.

She is free to say what she wants, and I am free to wish she would stick to crappy break up songs and stay out of politics.

Good sum up of your position.

 

[KevinB]

I don't trust them to do what's right for country and the people. I also think our population is, generally, stupid and weak and easily led astray by celebrity. I think one of the great blights on our society is the worship of professional athlete and celebrity.

Generally I loathe celebrities, and ever since the various professional athlete strikes while I was in Afghanistan and Iraq, I have a heavy disdain for them.
Heck I love hockey but boycotted NHL games for a decade and a half (admittedly the Caps win brought me back to going to occasional games with my family).

But the real issue isn’t with ‘stars’ themselves it is with our society that puts them on a pedestal. That is a failing of our society and how far removed it is from its roots.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Generally I loathe celebrities, and ever since the various professional athlete strikes while I was in Afghanistan and Iraq, I have a heavy disdain for them.
Heck I love hockey but boycotted NHL games for a decade and a half (admittedly the Caps win brought me back to going to occasional games with my family).

But the real issue isn’t with ‘stars’ themselves it is with our society that puts them on a pedestal. That is a failing of our society and how far removed it is from its roots.

I cant argue with that.