US VS G7

[PuckChaser]

China and the EU are 1 and 2 in terms of GDP, with the EU only barely ahead. The EU's importance will drop substantially when BREXIT kicks in, which is why the EU is fighting so hard against it. Regardless of how you view the current US leadership, isolating the world's third largest, and largest nominal GDP will just destroy any semblance of credibility. It's also laughable that China is going to recommend technology trade policies when they literally just steal whatever technology they want.

China's also not going to strike back all that hard against the US, 18% of their export economy is to the US. Not many country's can handle that big of a blow, and any major trade action like that would likely cause a global collapse.

 

[Remius]

It's also laughable that China is going to recommend technology trade policies when they literally just steal whatever technology they want.

Yeah, except the country that could be a foil to that just packed up its toys and went home. Voids get filled.  China is all too happy to fill it.

Thank you U.S.



 

 

[Altair]

China and the EU are 1 and 2 in terms of GDP, with the EU only barely ahead. The EU's importance will drop substantially when BREXIT kicks in, which is why the EU is fighting so hard against it. Regardless of how you view the current US leadership, isolating the world's third largest, and largest nominal GDP will just destroy any semblance of credibility. It's also laughable that China is going to recommend technology trade policies when they literally just steal whatever technology they want.

China's also not going to strike back all that hard against the US, 18% of their export economy is to the US. Not many country's can handle that big of a blow, and any major trade action like that would likely cause a global collapse.

If we take China at its word, it's going to strike back dollar for dollar at US tariffs. Another sector it may hit the US is oil, as the USA is currently exporting quite a bit of oil to China.

It just so happens that there is a country that has recently been black listed by the USA that has quite a bit of oil that it will wants to export.

As for isolating the US and their economy, it must be noted, America is doing this to itself. And when it comes right down to it, the EU and China together have more sway economically than the USA alone, where it finds itself.

 

[Altair]

Yeah, except the country that could be a foil to that just packed up its toys and went home. Voids get filled.  China is all too happy to fill it.

Thank you U.S.

Americas withdrawal is opening space for China to advance their interests and agenda.

It would be humorous if it wasn't so serious.

 

[Journeyman]

Peter Navarro, The Policy Game: How Special Interests and Ideologues are Stealing America.  The book is out of print.

It can be had on Amazon.CA…. for $4.93

Trump as "ideologue"?  His financial 1%'er cronies as "special interests"?  Maybe quite prescient, but not worth my $4.93 to find out.

 

[Altair]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-25/harley-davidson-to-shift-motorbike-production-to-counter-tariffs

Harley-Davidson Inc. plans to shift some production of its motorcycles out of the U.S. in response to European Union tariffs, as President Donald Trump’s trade war undermines an iconic American manufacturer.

Each motorcycle will cost about $2,200 more after the European Union raised its levies on imported U.S. bikes to 31 percent from 6 percent on June 22, the Milwaukee-based manufacturer said Monday in a regulatory filing. This will cost Harley about $90 million to $100 million annually, as the company will absorb rather than pass extra costs on to customers.

The EU tariffs are only the latest blowback Harley has faced from Trump’s trade policies. The company has warned that Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum will drive up raw materials costs. Chief Executive Officer Matt Levatich also was a supporter of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which could have lowered barriers in some of the largest markets for motorcycles in the world. Trump withdrew from the long-planned trade pact in January 2017.A week after pulling the U.S. out of the TPP, the president hosted Levatich and other Harley executives and union leaders for a White House listening session and held the motorcycle maker out as an “American success story since 1901.”

A U.S. motorcycle sales slump has deepened since then, spurring Harley’s decision in January to close a plant in Kansas City, Missouri, eliminating about 260 jobs.

The European trade tariffs already starting to sting American companies. And this is before Canadian and Chinese tariffs are set to come into effect.

MAGA.

 

[Altair]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/24/business/trump-trade-war-cheese-exports.html

For domestic cheesemakers like Sartori, Mr. Trump’s approach has further tilted the global playing field against American manufacturers, giving them an even steeper climb in an increasingly competitive global economy.

The dairy industry now faces substantial tariffs on products it exports as Mexico, Canada and other countries retaliate against Mr. Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs. American exporters also fear that they could lose access to Canada and Mexico if the president goes ahead with his threat to withdraw from the North American Free Trade Agreement. And they are finding themselves at an increasing disadvantage as other countries move ahead with trade agreements that grant each other freer access to their markets while Mr. Trump further isolates the United States.

The Sartori company, which employs roughly 500 workers in the state, earns just one-tenth of its revenue from exports to 49 countries of cheese like Parmesan, Cheddar, asiago, Gorgonzola, Romano and fontina. But its exports to foreign markets are the company’s fastest growing segment and the one where it sees the most opportunity.

That equation changes dramatically when tariffs are factored in. Sartori, which sells its cheeses to retail stores and fast casual restaurant chains in Mexico, now faces a 15 percent tariff on its exports, which will rise to 25 percent on July 5, in retaliation for Mr. Trump’s levies on global metal. The price increase is enough that the company’s customers, including restaurant chains, are looking at signing contracts with Sartori’s European competitors.

Targeted tariffs at specific industries harming American business.

Only, in these articles, the americans effected by this trade war don't seem to be blaming Canada and Mexico.

MAGA.

 

[Altair]

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/01/mexico-pork-tariff-trade-war-threats-iowa-producer-losses-trump-steel-canada-china-exports-ham/663212002/

Iowa pork producers already dealing with a 25 percent tariff on U.S. pork exports to China could face another trade hit, with Mexico considering a 20 percent tariff on hams and pork shoulders.

Growing trade worries have cut pork prices in recent weeks, costing Iowa producers about $560 million, said Dermot Hayes, an Iowa State University economist.

Mexico is the largest export market for U.S. pork, based on volume.

Mexico bought $1.5 billion of U.S. pork last year, followed by China-Hong Kong at nearly $1.1 billion.

The tariffs are "potentially devastating news for Iowa’s pig farmers and the rural Iowa economy," said Gregg Hora, president of the Iowa Pork Producers Association.

A few more markets who are going to need to suffer in order to Make America Great Again.

 

[Altair]

https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/wires/business/minnesotas-soybean-sales-could-take-big-hit-if-china-tariffs-proceed/

Minnesota’s farmers exported $2.1 billion worth of soybeans in 2016, according to government statistics. Most of them went to China.

If the Chinese proceed with a threatened 25 percent import tariff on U.S. soybeans in retaliation for 25 percent protective tariffs Trump placed on a variety of nonagricultural Chinese products, Minnesota soybean growers and others across the country face a loss of 69 percent of Chinese sales, said Purdue University agricultural economist Wallace Tyner, who analyzed data for the U.S. Soybean Export Council.

The loss of U.S. sales comes because the retaliatory tariff will make U.S. soybeans more expensive than those China can buy from other countries, principally Brazil.

Some of those lost Chinese sales can be made up selling U.S. soybeans in other parts of the world, Tyner said. But if the tariffs stay in effect for a long time, U.S. soybean exports to the world could shrink by 29 percent. Brazil, meanwhile, would see its soybean export business grow conspicuously at America’s expense, according to Tyner.

Odd, looks like this trade conflict can Make Brazil Great Again.

MBGA.

There are hundreds of stories like this out there, where tariffs are hitting american companies, limiting business expansion and growth, cutting revenue and jobs, moving manufacturing out of the USA.

America cannot bend the global economy to its will, and now countries all over the globe are hitting back, targeting specific industries, making it hurt. All the while, China, Europe, even Canada and Mexico, try to find new opportunities not involving the USA.

Still, I guess as long as America clings to the belief that they hold so much sway over the global economy that they can force it to do what it wants, they will continue down this road. I believe we will all be poorer for it.

 

[Edward Campbell]

https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/wires/business/minnesotas-soybean-sales-could-take-big-hit-if-china-tariffs-proceed/
Odd, looks like this trade conflict can Make Brazil Great Again.

MBGA.

There are hundreds of stories like this out there, where tariffs are hitting american companies, limiting business expansion and growth, cutting revenue and jobs, moving manufacturing out of the USA.

America cannot bend the global economy to its will, and now countries all over the globe are hitting back, targeting specific industries, making it hurt. All the while, China, Europe, even Canada and Mexico, try to find new opportunities not involving the USA.

Still, I guess as long as America clings to the belief that they hold so much sway over the global economy that they can force it to do what it wants, they will continue down this road. I believe we will all be poorer for it.

That's because it is almost always true that trade wars hurt everyone ~ this one (actually these ones) are unlikely to be exceptions to that general rule.

 

[Edward Campbell]

https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/wires/business/minnesotas-soybean-sales-could-take-big-hit-if-china-tariffs-proceed/
Odd, looks like this trade conflict can Make Brazil Great Again.

MBGA.

There are hundreds of stories like this out there, where tariffs are hitting american companies, limiting business expansion and growth, cutting revenue and jobs, moving manufacturing out of the USA.

America cannot bend the global economy to its will, and now countries all over the globe are hitting back, targeting specific industries, making it hurt. All the while, China, Europe, even Canada and Mexico, try to find new opportunities not involving the USA.

Still, I guess as long as America clings to the belief that they hold so much sway over the global economy that they can force it to do what it wants, they will continue down this road. I believe we will all be poorer for it.

Two points:

  First ~ yes, it probably can bend the global system to its will in the short term and even medium simply by being more able to accept damage then are its many competitors ...
  for a while; and

  Second ~ those "new opportunities" require Australia, Britain, Canada, China, the EU and India to all agree to cooperate with one another which is going to be a helluva lot harder
  than many commentators think.

 

[Altair]

Two points:

  First ~ yes, it probably can bend the global system to its will in the short term and even medium simply by being more able to accept damage then are its many competitors ...
  for a while; and

  Second ~ those "new opportunities" require Australia, Britain, Canada, China, the EU and India to all agree to cooperate with one another which is going to be a helluva lot harder
  than many commentators think.

On your first point, that is not a given. Democracies are fickle, people enjoy their standard of living and jobs, and tend to punish the ruling party when that is upended.

On your second point, it is going to be rather complicated, that much is true. It's telling that China and the EU are getting together though. China is trying to take a leadership role in the US absence

 

[mariomike]

Reply #225

Harley-Davidson Inc. plans to shift some production of its motorcycles out of the U.S. in response to European Union tariffs, as President Donald Trump’s trade war undermines an iconic American manufacturer.

"Thank you Harley Davidson for building... In America...."
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/report.php?pid=436

 

[Altair]

Reply #225

"Thank you Harley Davidson for building... In America...."
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/report.php?pid=436

That didn't age well at all.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

On your first point, that is not a given. Democracies are fickle, people enjoy their standard of living and jobs, and tend to punish the ruling party when that is upended.

On your second point, it is going to be rather complicated, that much is true. It's telling that China and the EU are getting together though. China is trying to take a leadership role in the US absence

You are assuming the people that put Trump in power aren't supportive of these actions when the consensus seems to be that they are.

A quick google of "Trump Tariffs" reveals that googling Trump is more popular in Canada than it is in the United States and the Canadian Government and Media seem to think people in the United States will suddenly care the more we write and publish about how angry we are.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Trump%20Tariffs

Or from the past 7 days:

"Donald Trump Tariffs"

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%207-d&q=Donald%20Trump%20Tariffs

Almost nobody in the World really gives a crap about Donald Trump or what he says about Tariffs, the only people that really care is us and the United States could crush Canada like a bug if it really felt like it.

 

[Altair]

You are assuming the people that put Trump in power aren't supportive of these actions when the consensus seems to be that they are.

A quick google of "Trump Tariffs" reveals that googling Trump is more popular in Canada than it is in the United States and the Canadian Government and Media seem to think people in the United States will suddenly care the more we write and publish about how angry we are.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Trump%20Tariffs

Or from the past 7 days:

"Donald Trump Tariffs"

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%207-d&q=Donald%20Trump%20Tariffs

Almost nobody in the World really gives a crap about Donald Trump or what he says about Tariffs, the only people that really care is us and the United States could crush Canada like a bug if it really felt like it.

At the yellow part, I don't believe that to be true. It's for the domestic audience, not the American audience.  And there are a great many Canadians upset about how this is going down, and would, naturally, like to read about it and inform themselves, or share their own opinions about it.

Nobody cares about what the American President says about tariffs, but I'm sure they care about the actual tariffs themselves, which is understandable.

And yes, America would crush Canada like a bug, but this it's America versus Canada, this is really America versus the world.

The EU put tariffs on America. That's already hurting american businesses and moving jobs out of america.

China is about to put tariffs on America, that has certain sectors of America worried about job losses and loss of revenue

Canada has put tariffs on American goods, and we are their largest export market, that isn't to be taken lightly.

India has put tariffs on America

Turkey has put tariffs on America

Mexico has put tariffs on America, and they are hurting certain sectors of the American Market.

Japan has plans for tariffs on American goods

Canada may not be able to go head on versus the USA in a trade war, but Canada doesn't have to.

 

[Remius]

You are assuming the people that put Trump in power aren't supportive of these actions when the consensus seems to be that they are.

A quick google of "Trump Tariffs" reveals that googling Trump is more popular in Canada than it is in the United States and the Canadian Government and Media seem to think people in the United States will suddenly care the more we write and publish about how angry we are.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Trump%20Tariffs

Or from the past 7 days:

"Donald Trump Tariffs"




https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%207-d&q=Donald%20Trump%20Tariffs

Almost nobody in the World really gives a crap about Donald Trump or what he says about Tariffs, the only people that really care is us and the United States could crush Canada like a bug if it really felt like it.

Go look at June 12.  Apparently the world (except Canada again...)  gave a crap about the NK summit either.

I think it just shows that we might be a bit more plugged in online that most countries.  or that we like to stay informed.  Given the reaction of every country hit by tariffs I'd say we aren't the only ones that care...

Also the World Cup is on...

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

At the yellow part, I don't believe that to be true. It's for the domestic audience, not the American audience.  And there are a great many Canadians upset about how this is going down, and would, naturally, like to read about it and inform themselves, or share their own opinions about it.

Nobody cares about what the American President says about tariffs, but I'm sure they care about the actual tariffs themselves, which is understandable.

And yes, America would crush Canada like a bug, but this it's America versus Canada, this is really America versus the world.

The EU put tariffs on America. That's already hurting american businesses and moving jobs out of america.

China is about to put tariffs on America, that has certain sectors of America worried about job losses and loss of revenue

Canada has put tariffs on American goods, and we are their largest export market, that isn't to be taken lightly.

India has put tariffs on America

Turkey has put tariffs on America

Mexico has put tariffs on America, and they are hurting certain sectors of the American Market.

Japan has plans for tariffs on American goods

Canada may not be able to go head on versus the USA in a trade war, but Canada doesn't have to.

Are they really hurting the US though?  I don't see any indication of it and the only real testimonies I see are on websites like the CBC, which again, are playing to the domestic political audience.

It's all fine and well to say that "we are going to find other markets" but I have no faith that the G7-1 can come to some sort of consensus, let alone getting China, India, Australia, South Korea, Mexico, etc. to present any sort of unified front.

 

[Altair]

Are they really hurting the US though?  I don't see any indication of it and the only real testimonies I see are on websites like the CBC, which again, are playing to the domestic political audience.

It's all fine and well to say that "we are going to find other markets" but I have no faith that the G7-1 can come to some sort of consensus, let alone getting China, India, Australia, South Korea, Mexico, etc. to present any sort of unified front.

I posted 4 articles(I could have posted many more)  from US newspapers about how tariffs from the EU and Mexico and China are hurting the USA,  and those were all for a smaller dollar amount than what canada is about to hit the USA with.

EU tariffs total 3.6 billion and they are already having repurcussions. Canada is about to hit the USA with 16.6 billion dollars worth of tariffs.

Again,  4 articles,  from american sources,  top of this page.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/01/mexico-pork-tariff-trade-war-threats-iowa-producer-losses-trump-steel-canada-china-exports-ham/663212002/

A few more markets who are going to need to suffer in order to Make America Great Again.

Question is, can Mexico get replacement pork as cheap and easily? Now it will all have to come from overseas, even by Canada, so shipped to port, loaded on a ship and then to a Mexican Port, the trucked through the country. Not sure how many ships go from Canada to Mexico and return, but I suspect it's not that many.