Volunteer unpaid Militia idea (split from Reserve role thread)

[Kirkhill]

I favour the older system of attesting virtually all-comers.  After they walk through the door and are cleared by the MO slap a beret/balmoral/glen/caubeen on their head, give them a pair of coveralls, a belt and a pair of boots and start them square-bashing.

After a few weeks of regular attendance put them on the Class A rolls and start paying them.

If they sign on for advanced training that would take them into Class B and C territory, potentially operating in support of the the Reserves or the Regs then clear them to the deployable standards of fitness and allowable moral turpitude.

The idea is get the interested into the system and engaged pdq.  At very least you will engage a part of the community and give them some exposure to the CF when they are most receptive.  That will give you a broader base of support in the community (even if it is only at the social club / auxiliary level) as well as developing a pool of attested willing from which the active Reserve and the Regs can be recruited.  You also get a longer period to actually evaluate recruits and determine if they are a fit.

With respect to liability - have the attested sign a waiver recognizing that they are not covered to the same standard as an enrolled soldier and have the CF/DND purchase commercial insurance similar to that purchased by high risk adventure businesses (skiing, parachuting, rafting, climbing etc) to cover loss of life and limb.

The full coverage should only be supplied to Class A,B and C Reserves and Regs under existing regulations. 

 

[GR66]

I favour the older system of attesting virtually all-comers.  After they walk through the door and are cleared by the MO slap a beret/balmoral/glen/caubeen on their head, give them a pair of coveralls, a belt and a pair of boots and start them square-bashing.

After a few weeks of regular attendance put them on the Class A rolls and start paying them.

If they sign on for advanced training that would take them into Class B and C territory, potentially operating in support of the the Reserves or the Regs then clear them to the deployable standards of fitness and allowable moral turpitude.

The idea is get the interested into the system and engaged pdq.  At very least you will engage a part of the community and give them some exposure to the CF when they are most receptive.  That will give you a broader base of support in the community (even if it is only at the social club / auxiliary level) as well as developing a pool of attested willing from which the active Reserve and the Regs can be recruited.  You also get a longer period to actually evaluate recruits and determine if they are a fit.

With respect to liability - have the attested sign a waiver recognizing that they are not covered to the same standard as an enrolled soldier and have the CF/DND purchase commercial insurance similar to that purchased by high risk adventure businesses (skiing, parachuting, rafting, climbing etc) to cover loss of life and limb.

The full coverage should only be supplied to Class A,B and C Reserves and Regs under existing regulations.

I like this model.  Your basic entry-level Militiaman in this case would be very similar to a volunteer Auxiliary Police Officer.  Those programs nationwide are proof that an unpaid volunteer force can receive meaningful training (including firearms training) that is NOT the same standard as a full-fledged police officer but still produce units that are able to perform useful and important domestic security roles on a regular basis.  This would be a return to the traditional concept of a citizen's Militia.  These members would fulfill an important role linking the military to their home communities and provide a pool of predisposed and partially trained individuals should the need ever arise for large scale mobilization.

Those Militia members that wish to take the next step to a paid part-time position would have to meet the more stringent CF fitness standards to be deployable.  Their standard of training (unlike the volunteer Militia) would be more to the standard CF model but perhaps focused on those trades/skills required to produce deployable rifles ("guys in back") to augment the Reg Force in deployments, with the Reg Force members filling the more specialized roles that do not lend themselves to part-time training.

Those members able to commit greater time and effort into their training (even if only for a period of time) could become Class B members so that they can take the more advanced Mods in their trade and/or spend some time training with their Reg Force parent unit to keep their skills fresh.  Once their training period is completed they would revert to Class A but now have those more advanced skills to share with their unit.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I doubt you will ever see masses of untrained, unpaid, clothed in coveralls volunteer 'trainees' in Canada.  Bad publicity and bad politics.

Why not focus on restructure that is actually possible, like reducing the # of CBG and CBG HQs, forming Regiments in those revamped CBGs that make actually sense from an org and people/#s based reality.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Lot's of places to volunteer already, what young people need is a job in the summer to help make money. The Summer youth program will be a good thing for the reserves and Reg force. You don't need NDHQ involved, run it at the regional Brigade level for the planning and command structure and the units do the training. Grow it slowly, the first years will be clunky and more expensive as you build up needed kit inventory. Hell you can combine it with a Junior Leaders course where the young NCO get a taste of leading troops and get their needed training as well.

At the same time you can eviscerate the HQ's, however  suspect it would be easier to run the student program then to hunting sacred cows.

 

[Kirkhill]

Back at the same time as D&B was doing his thing for the SHofC I was doing the same for the Calg Highrs.  High schools and shopping malls with kilt, Grizzly and LAW.

The problem wasn't getting them through the door.  The problem was how many new guys we allowed on the rolls vice how many people that needed to be released from the rolls because their attendance became spotty after three to five years.

Commonly we hauled in high school and university types (and the occasional French-Canadian cowboy) who served as long as they were going to school locally.  Once they moved on, got a job, got married etc.... we lost 80 to 90% of them.  In the meantime though we regularly managed to turn out 150 to 200 for parades, 60 or so for regular training and had a strong cadre of Jr NCOs with all sorts of neat qualifications like jump courses, rappel master, assault pioneer, qualified on every battalion weapon (including TOW and Mortars).  Some of them even got attachments to the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders (our sister regiment) to assist them in North Ireland.

And not a district or regular recruiter or career manager in sight.

Yours truly did his first four months "off the rolls" in scrounged kit.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'm not saying it wouldn't work for the #s problem.  SYEP and CO-OP brought people in that might not have otherwise looked at a unit.  But I don't think you'd see it given the thumbs up from the powers that be, in today's world.  I worked PRES recruiting back in the day some; it is not as easy as some people think it should be/is.

 

[dapaterson]

So, to summarize: "I worked for free, so others should too!"  No.  Soldiers serving thier country are entitled to be paid for that service.  Full stop.  LFCA's former position "We'll call you a co-op student then refuse to pay you despite what the QR&Os say" has thankfully been ended.  There are too many possible abuses of power when it is a CO's discretion as to who to pay when.

"Units can recruit all by themselves!"  No.  I recall the days of the helpful MCpl giving advice on the entry exams, and perhaps fudging a colour blindness test to help a unit make its numbers.  Standards exist for reasons, and undergo regular validation.  Saying "He's a great guy, just not smart enough to pass the test" is not a reason to lower or ignore the standards.

Remember: given the turnover in the Reserves, the overwhelming majority of those who served in Afghanistan are those who were processed through... the recruiting centres.  Maybe, just maybe, their quality was in part because standards were enforced?


(And, of course, no one has posted any compelling reason of WHY units need to recruit dozens or hundreds more - what is the requirement this would meet?  Disaster relief is a secondary task for the military, not a raison d'etre.)

 

[Haggis]

I doubt you will ever see masses of untrained, unpaid, clothed in coveralls volunteer 'trainees' in Canada again.

FTFY

 

[Dissident]

So, to summarize: "I worked for free, so others should too!"  No.  Soldiers serving their country are entitled to be paid for that service.  Full stop.  LFCA's former position "We'll call you a co-op student then refuse to pay you despite what the QR&Os say" has thankfully been ended.  There are too many possible abuses of power when it is a CO's discretion as to who to pay when.

Agreed. I could go off on a tangent about someone not that long ago who wasn't overly keen on troops becoming aware of their LTA and TD benefits, which were not being paid. I have no illusions that there could be some abuse. I did not live this, but s friend of mine told stories of signing pink pay sheets which might get paid at the end of fiscal, if there was budget.

"Units can recruit all by themselves!"  No.  I recall the days of the helpful MCpl giving advice on the entry exams, and perhaps fudging a colour blindness test to help a unit make its numbers.  Standards exist for reasons, and undergo regular validation.  Saying "He's a great guy, just not smart enough to pass the test" is not a reason to lower or ignore the standards.

Sure, abuse could (will?) happen. But from where I am sitting, I would rather have to live with the odd administrative nightmare than be strangled out into oblivion. I'm sure there is a happy medium to be reached between what we have now and having local units be in sole control of their own recruiting.

Remember: given the turnover in the Reserves, the overwhelming majority of those who served in Afghanistan are those who were processed through... the recruiting centres.  Maybe, just maybe, their quality was in part because standards were enforced?

Sure. Maybe another part was because they had a decent cadre of NCMs. As other have alluded to, we lose 80-90% of people after 5 years. To maintain that cadre, critical mass as I call it, you need to have a pyramid that is pretty heavy at the bottom. If not pretty soon you have corporal leading corporals and it is not pretty. Especially for smaller units. Ask me how I know.

(And, of course, no one has posted any compelling reason of WHY units need to recruit dozens or hundreds more - what is the requirement this would meet?  Disaster relief is a secondary task for the military, not a raison d'etre.)

IMHO it is exactly because we do not know what the next challenge is that we should have a fairly well staffed reserve. We are flexible and for the money we are a pretty cheap way to force generate while maintaining a foot print in the community. I see myself as an ambassador of the Forces and will take the time to explain to people what we do and where their taxpayers money is being spent. We parade, smile at kids, give Canadian flags and generally show people that yes, we do have an Army/Air Force/Navy. When disaster strikes we jump in.

But yeah, I am biased.

 

[GR66]

There are a great many unpaid but trained (appropriately to their tasks) volunteer Police Auxiliaries, Fire Fighters, Medical First Responders and Search Teams across the country.  They seem to be able to perform the tasks assigned to them without much fuss.  In the past Militia members were unpaid.  I see no reason that such a form of membership would be impossible to put in place.  Would you use these individuals as augmentees for Reg Force deployments?  No, of course not.  Could they fill valuable roles in domestic service?  I think so with the right organization.  While it may not be seen as the primary role of the CF it IS one of the stated roles however.  Nor would I replace traditional paid and properly trained Class A reservists with these members.  They could however be a good potential source of recruitment and a base for mobilization should we ever be faced with a major global conflict.

 

[MilEME09]

There are a great many unpaid but trained (appropriately to their tasks) volunteer Police Auxiliaries, Fire Fighters, Medical First Responders and Search Teams across the country.  They seem to be able to perform the tasks assigned to them without much fuss.  In the past Militia members were unpaid.  I see no reason that such a form of membership would be impossible to put in place.  Would you use these individuals as augmentees for Reg Force deployments?  No, of course not.  Could they fill valuable roles in domestic service?  I think so with the right organization.  While it may not be seen as the primary role of the CF it IS one of the stated roles however.  Nor would I replace traditional paid and properly trained Class A reservists with these members.  They could however be a good potential source of recruitment and a base for mobilization should we ever be faced with a major global conflict.

I think you described the supp res

 

[GR66]

I think you described the supp res

The difference being that a volunteer Militia would parade and train on a regular basis.  It certainly could (and hopefully would) include members of the Supplementary Reserve.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If we cant get people interested in part time soldiering WITH pay, how do you propose to get them interested in it with OUT pay?

Seriously, this talk about volunteer militia in coveralls and rubber boots is about  as likely to happen as recce platoons being issued unicorns to move around on.

 

[Remius]

If we cant get people interested in part time soldiering WITH pay, how do you propose to get them interested in it with OUT pay?

Seriously, this talk about volunteer militia in coveralls and rubber boots is about  as likely to happen as recce platoons being issued unicorns to move around on.

Oh great.  Nice one there.  Now troops will be spreading the unicorn rumour now. 

 

[dapaterson]

Oh great.  Nice one there.  Now troops will be spreading the unicorn rumour now. 

Do unicorns fly, run on the ground, or swim?  Need to figure out if they're Air Force, Army or Navy...

 

[Remius]

As long as they have high visibility pips and crowns on them.

 

[quadrapiper]

Do unicorns fly, run on the ground, or swim?  Need to figure out if they're Air Force, Army or Navy...

TacHel, I think - the things sometimes seem to be shown flying without the benefit of wings, yet clearly have an affinity for the ground.

 

[McG]

There are a great many unpaid but trained (appropriately to their tasks) volunteer Police Auxiliaries, Fire Fighters, Medical First Responders and Search Teams across the country.  They seem to be able to perform the tasks assigned to them without much fuss.  In the past Militia members were unpaid.  I see no reason that such a form of membership would be impossible to put in place.  Would you use these individuals as augmentees for Reg Force deployments?  No, of course not.  Could they fill valuable roles in domestic service?  I think so with the right organization. 

Is this an answer looking for its question?  What domestic roles could an unpaid volunteer reserve fill that is not duplicating provincial volunteer forces ... especially where the concept is that they have no equipment?

I also do not see this as a proposal to improve the Army Reserve; it is a proposal to layer something new alongside the Army Reserve.  The idea may not deserve space in an Army Reserve discussion.

 

[Kirkhill]

Danish Homeguard
A citizen, as a member of the Home Guard, is able to demonstrate his right - voluntarily and unpaid - to participate in the defence of his country and its democratic values.

Tasks
surveillance and reporting
guarding, securing, and protection activities
limited and uncomplicated combat operations.

http://www.hjv.dk/eng/Sider/forside.aspx
http://www.sfi.dk/summary_volunteers_in_the_danish_home_guard_2011-11890.aspx

In other words pretty much like the Canadian Rangers - except the Rangers get 12 days pay a year..... (pretty much unpaid)

The Danes maintain a guard of 48,000 unpaid volunteers with a population of 5.5 million each contributing an average of 100 hours per year although the Naval Homeguard averages up to 300 hours per year. 

That is roughly equivalent to Canada having 300,000 volunteers on hand, each contributing as many hours as a typical Canadian auxiliary constable is required to contribute, or the 85,000 volunteer Canadian firefighters contribute, or the 25,000 St John's Ambulance volunteers contribute, or the 19,000 volunteers of the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary, CASARA and SARVAC combined.

But I am sure that I am wrong and that it is impossible to raise unpaid volunteers capable of assisting the authorities in times of crisis. 

 

[Kirkhill]

Combat operations are uncomplicated until the shooting starts...

True enough Jungle, but I suppose the difference between the Danish, Swedish and Norwegian attitudes and the Canadian attitude is influenced by what I said here:

The underlying problem is that, unlike the Poles and Ukrainians and Russians, Canadians don't perceive any threat that would force them to pick up arms and kill the man in their front yard intent on slaughtering their family.  That threat is a nightmare in Eastern Europe.  It is a fantasy in Canada.

Apparently I am doing a really poor job of explaining my position, again.

I am not suggesting that the Canadian Government recruit 300,000 unpaid volunteers, give them 100 hours of training and a gun and send them off to Afghanistan.

I am suggesting that 300,000 unpaid volunteers, with a knowledge of military organization, some map and compass skills, rudimentary weapons handling skills and an ability to communicate and drive vehicles off road would have two primary benefits:

They would add to the pool of organized local volunteers available in the event of a local disaster or crisis and,
They would provide a recruiting pool in which "real" soldiers could be found for A,B,C or Reg service.