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Why does everyone suggest I avoid being a NCM?

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blacktriangle

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Not sure where to put this, but here goes.

Over the past few months I have been looking into my future pretty seriously.

Most people I've talked to think I'm stupid for not wanting to go to University. I could easily do it IF I wanted, but I don't. I've been thinking of going to a community college for police foundations after high school, and trying to become an MP. Worst case scenario, I end up a NCM in the infantry. Everyone is trying to sway me away from this, almost to the point that I feel I have to go to University to shut them up.

Has anyone ever felt pressure from family/teachers on this type of thing?

Thanks.
 
Don't listen to anyone else, do what is right for you, what your heart tells you. Regardless of what you do or where you go in the Military, the experience will give you a step up on any job, once you leave the military...nothing wrong with being an NCM.

Cheers and Good luck
 
gnplummer421 said:
do what is right for you, what your heart tells you

You're such a big softie ;D

He is right though, Shawn. If you feel you'd rather be an NCM, it's your choice...People will always be telling you that you shoud do this instead of that.

If you need to shut people up, don't do it by giving in to what they want... Do what you feel is right for you, and prove them wrong!
 
yeah Shawn
had the same problem myself many moons ago. Decide I was going grunt and that was all there was to it. Twenty years later finally made it into university with a whole world of experience and a level of maturity that made it kind of easy. You can split hairs and go reserve and do university. But gnplummer has a good point "follow your heart".
 
I came from a university family, where everyone had and was expected to go.  However, I went to university for a year and a half and ended up quiting, joined the infantry as a Pte., made it to Sgt, then applied for UTPNCM and now I am an infantry officer.

Through my experience I learned a great deal, and have NEVER regretted my route.

Just do what you think is good for YOU and no one else.  If you are happy whatever you do, you will mostly likely do well doing it, if you do something for someone else, you will perform to a standard to get by, perhaps making it a big waste of your time and regrettable.
 
aesop081 said:
Why would that be "worse case scenario" ?

It isn't. Sorry for wording it like that. It is however the "worse case scenario" to all those that I have to put up with everyday.

Thank you for all the responses so far, it really helps.

-Shawn
 
There is nothing that says you can't go to University and then join the CF and be a NCM.  Being a NCM just means you work for money and you most likely have a trade.  Having a University only makes that easier... but even if you don have it, its not a big deal.  do wnat you want to do and you'll enjoy it.
 
radiohead said:
There is nothing that says you can't go to University and then join the CF and be a NCM.  Being a NCM just means you work for money and you most likely have a trade.  Having a University only makes that easier... but even if you don have it, its not a big deal.  do wnat you want to do and you'll enjoy it.

I might go to university one day, but for now, I don't see anything there that interests me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one can stay in the CF until at least 55 right? If I like it and can still keep up, maybe I won't have to get another job afterwards... or is that just being optimistic?
 
There is a certain legitimacy associated with getting a degree, and/or becoming an officer. It certainly is an officer's military, after all, which doesn't help matters. I'm just thinking of thing's like UNMO (United Nations Military Observer) positions, which are given to primarily officers, and I can think of only a few Sr NCO's that have gotten positions on them, mostly guys with 20+ years, whereas young Captains get them pretty easily. I understand that many countries don't hold Sr NCO's in high esteem, due to the fact that to get to become a Sgt in some countries can be measured in months, rather than years, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating for MCpl's and Sgt's (and WO's) who can't get an UNMO (or similar) position with oodles of tours and experience, and a Captain with neither is good to go.

I think that a good route to go (as suggested by others) is to join as an NCM, see if you like the life, get experience, work towards getting an education, and if it suits you, go through the UTPNCM program. I think that we have it ass-backwards, assuming that just because someone did well in high school, that they are born to be an officer. The experience you gain as a soldier does wonders to seeing if you "got it" before becoming an officer. I think it is too hit or miss, hoping that somebody who had good grades can be "formed" into an officer. And don't even go there with the "rigors" of CAP and BOTC (to see if someone "has it"). I have known enough guys who were NCM's that went officer to know that those are a joke in comparison to the NCM equivalents (leadership-wise).

If you go the NCM way, be prepared to have to explain to friends, family, etc that not every soldier is a grade 6 dropout with an IQ hovering in the lower 60's. It surprises people that there are soldier's with degrees (one of the guys I work with is just finishing his MBA, and people are surprised that he is "only" a Sgt). I was reading "War & Peace" out in the field (once upon a time), and an officer couldn't believe it when he was told that a Cpl was reading it. I guess skin-mags and comic books are more our style. I have met some pretty thick officers, and some very smart NCM's. You aren't neccesarily defined by what is hanging on your wall (i.e a diploma), but what is in your head. Education comes in many shapes, and the University of Life has a steep tuition, so whether you're sitting in a university classroom taking Basket-Weaving 101, or learning about the facts of life (people hate each other and find new and unusual ways of killing each other) in a trench/OP/vehicle turret in a foreign land, it's all knowledge.

Anyway, enough philosophizin'. Do what YOU want, not what other people want you to do. Life is short, but if you make a mistake, you can always start afresh.

Al
 
Re: staying until you are 55. I suppose if you want to, you could, but look at it this way; The military is a way of life like no other. You become part of a family. If you stay too long, you risk not being able to re-adjust to civvie life, and become lonely. If you do your basic 20 years, you still have a good 20-25 years left to start another career. I don't think anyone joins the Military to become rich, so a career after the Military sets you up for a nice retirement, besides, you don't want to become one of those crusty old Sergeant-Major's do you? ;)

Gnplummer :cdn:
 
Allan Luomala said:
You aren't neccesarily defined by what is hanging on your wall (i.e a diploma), but what is in your head.

To perhaps refine this even more (and risk skewing the thread  ;) ) ...you'll be judged by what you do. Neither officers nor NCMs have cornered the market on people who are stupid, lazy, arrogant.....or smart, industrious, cheerful to be around. You can be both smart and educated (not remotely synonymous), but if you're lazy, or don't give a crap about those around you, that's how you'll be known.

I'll echo the others, however; doing what you want will make it easier for you to be motivated and successful at it. You can always change later - - otherwise BPSOs would feel neglected.

(as seen from the perspective of 15 years NCM ---> UTPNCM, notwithstanding the British view, "once a ranker, always a wanker"  )
 
When I joined in 1990, my mother begged me to go officer. She is university educated and has spent her entire life teaching. She still to this day has no idea what the military is like or even what its purpose is.

I can almost gurantee that the comments by your family/friends is based on the idea that the military (NCM) is a job for uneducated people who can't get a job making the big bucks.

Firstly, think to yourself "what job will make me happy". You only have roughly 75 years on this earth and should spend it doing a job you like. How many Canadians out there have put themselves deeply in debt getting an education in a field that they either end up hating or can't get a job in.

After 16 years in the CF as an NCM, I can honestly say I would not want any other job if it were offered to me on a silver platter. I have even considered getting a doctorate in some field and then waving it in my mothers face and saying "Im staying in the Artillery as an NCM".

Try the military if its what you want to do, its not a life time commitment but it can be if you want it to be. And in the end when your old and grey atleast you can say "I did what I wanted to do" and not what others wanted me to.
 
SHELLDRAKE!! has brought up an interesting point.  How many kids in High School are looking at High Tech jobs, Lawyer, Doctor as being the 'high paying' jobs, and totally overlooking the really high paying jobs like Plumbers, Electrician, Carpenters, etc.  Sometimes those glamourous jobs don't pay the same as less glamourous jobs.  Have you ever asked a Plumber what he makes an hour?  Now ask a High Tech worker about their job security, who pays their IE, who pays their healthcare premiums, who pays their pension, etc.  You may be surprised who at the end of the day actually has more take home pay.

Transfer that to the military, and you will find that there are many Specialist Trades that make a lot more than Junior officers.

But then; are you in it for the money?
 
Giving you and your teachers etc the benefit of the doubt, it's possible that they have detected in you some signs of naissent leadership ability, and are urging you towards the officer path so that you are offered the chance to fully develop it.

If you go NCM, you will probably get the chance, eventually, to develop and utilize that ability - but it will be a long time coming. As an officer, if you really have it, you'll start developing it and using it almost immediately.

Leadership ability is rare and precious, and when it is found and effectively utiliized, it is THE great force multiplier. If you have it, you should make use of it.

DG
 
I'm sitting in the same situation...Not the University part but in a way, I have a grandfather who spend 16 years in 2RCHA in Shilo, spent 6 Years in the Airborne, Taught SF Training in the Arctic for 32 months, as an NCM, and now, at 78, lives in a trailer part with barely any money...

He's pushing me to go officer...Although I think officer and leadership would be a suiting role for me, I think having time in the ranks before going to the brass is a better idea...I will only have 1 year and a half as an NCM in the Reserve Artillery before making the transfer if I get accepted to RMC.  A part of me wishes I will make it, but a part of me knows it's better to know what it's like before leading those who have more experience than you.  1 1/2 years is not enough.

Do what you think is right.  The infantry is not as bad as everyone says it is...It's hard, yes, it sucks at times, yes, and requires you to be physically and mentally strong but as long as you have the determination and don't go into a trade you hd second thoughts about, you won't have any trouble.  Don't let your relatives control YOUR life

Cheers,

PTE Hopkins 037 5 Fd. RCA
 
Pte Hopkins said:
I'm sitting in the same situation...Not the University part but in a way, I have a grandfather who spend 16 years in 2RCHA in Shilo, spent 6 Years in the Airborne, Taught SF Training in the Arctic for 32 months, as an NCM, and now, at 78, lives in a trailer part with barely any money...

He's pushing me to go officer...Although I think officer and leadership would be a suiting role for me, I think having time in the ranks before going to the brass is a better idea...I will only have 1 year and a half as an NCM in the Reserve Artillery before making the transfer if I get accepted to RMC.  A part of me wishes I will make it, but a part of me knows it's better to know what it's like before leading those who have more experience than you.  1 1/2 years is not enough.

Do what you think is right.  The infantry is not as bad as everyone says it is...It's hard, yes, it sucks at times, yes, and requires you to be physically and mentally strong but as long as you have the determination and don't go into a trade you hd second thoughts about, you won't have any trouble.  Don't let your relatives control YOUR life

Cheers,

PTE Hopkins 037 5 Fd. RCA

My grandfather was in the airborne as well, and is one of the people pushing me to go officer one day. I guess everyone thinks they know whats best for me. I'll just have to take them with a grain of salt from now on.

Thank you for all the replies, they've certainly shed some light on this for me.

:salute:
 
I guess I can provide an example of what an NCM could get after a career in the service. The average wage in the Manufacturing sector here in Eastern Ontario is $25-$32/hr. (top level process operator) In my plant alone there are 7 ex-military NCM's  from various backgrounds.

We work self-directed on our shifts, without supervisors, so team work is huge. That is where the military background plays a crucial role, because employers look for people with a strong work ethic, self-discipline, troubleshooter, organizer and work in a team environment.

That to me is what being an NCM in the military gets you, once you do decide to leave. Do the math yourself, but with a wack of overtime thrown in, that is not too shabby., oh yeah, and then there is the shift premiums for nights and weekends. 

You get the gist of it.  You can be or do anything with enough effort right?

Gnplummer :cdn:
 
ShawnSmith said:
My grandfather was in the airborne as well, and is one of the people pushing me to go officer one day. I guess everyone thinks they know whats best for me. I'll just have to take them with a grain of salt from now on.

Thank you for all the replies, they've certainly shed some light on this for me.

:salute:

I take it your satisfied and can now get on with your life. As can we. Good luck in the future.
 
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