Will 2021 see a new pistol buy?

[Colin Parkinson]

I started using lasers on our air rifles for training Navy League Cadets, I found it helps for a very quick learning curve for the kids. Once you get the new pistols, some Lasers will help with the first time shooters.

 

[Ostrozac]

In my experience, the lack of training isn’t so much an accuracy issue, it’s a safety issue. We have a culture of throwing pistols and live ammo at people and expecting them to figure them out. Talk of the use of lasers and advanced training techniques is premature when we refuse to train people even on the most basic of techniques.

 

[Haggis]

In my experience, the lack of training isn’t so much an accuracy issue, it’s a safety issue. We have a culture of throwing pistols and live ammo at people and expecting them to figure them out. Talk of the use of lasers and advanced training techniques is premature when we refuse to train people even on the most basic of techniques.

We have given ourselves a false sense of competency in that very few NDs occur with the BHP. The fact that the majority of NDs are with rifles/carbines is because the vast majority of small arms users in the CAF use rifles/carbines.

Our basic "get ready for PWT 1" pistol training is abysmally poor. If that trend continues with a new, sexy pistol coming into the system that everyone is going to want to use then look out!

 

[daftandbarmy]

We have given ourselves a false sense of competency in that very few NDs occur with the BHP. The fact that the majority of NDs are with rifles/carbines is because the vast majority of small arms users in the CAF use rifles/carbines.

Our basic "get ready for PWT 1" pistol training is abysmally poor. If that trend continues with a new, sexy pistol coming into the system that everyone is going to want to use then look out!

One of the best pistol training/ shooting experiences I've ever had was with a local police force.

I know a guy there who invited me out to shoot the Glock 17 and Remington 870.

Despite never having shot the Glock before I went from novice to 'not bad' in an afternoon. I've had a fair bit of experience shooting various pistols before but the police reservists I was shooting with had little to no experience. They all did well too.

I really appreciated the fairly low key and 'experiential' approach to training the instructors used, which was clearly nothing like the 'shouty' experiences I've had before in the Army. It clearly worked well for the novice shooters, too.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Doesn't much matter which one we get. The biggest problem we have in the military with our weapons is the constant strip, assemble, IAs and stoppages and dry drills. The things are worn out before we get to the range. And keep range and operational mags locked up until you get real bullets. Most problems with the BHP are due to worn out mags and bent lips on the mags.

 

[Haggis]

Most problems with the BHP are due to worn out mags and bent lips on the mags.

Because we teach rifle first and pistol whenever, troops are not properly shown how to load pistol mags. Invariably, they try to shove the rounds between the lips, like a rifle mag, which ruins the magazines. I have 6 mags for my personal FN-manufactured BHP (3 pinned originals and 3 Mec-Gar) and have never experienced any magazine related stoppages except for empty magazines.

 

[dimsum]

experienced any magazine related stoppages except for empty magazines

That's a feature, not a bug.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Doesn't much matter which one we get. The biggest problem we have in the military with our weapons is the constant strip, assemble, IAs and stoppages and dry drills. The things are worn out before we get to the range. And keep range and operational mags locked up until you get real bullets. Most problems with the BHP are due to worn out mags and bent lips on the mags.

When I was QM and we were out on range day, people that were having consistent problems had their mags exchanged, then those mags were marked and sent back as faulty and we ordered new ones. Not sure if you guys have any new mags left in the system? Prior to this, the faulty mags kept getting put back into the Arms Vault and they still be a problem next range weekend.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In my experience, the lack of training isn’t so much an accuracy issue, it’s a safety issue. We have a culture of throwing pistols and live ammo at people and expecting them to figure them out. Talk of the use of lasers and advanced training techniques is premature when we refuse to train people even on the most basic of techniques.

A laser on a pistol will really help both the instructor and the student figure out what is going on. You also get immediate feedback on their aiming technique. You be very surprised at how people interpret your instructions on aiming.

I was planning on making a few of these, but the Lasers were easier. Plus they work on most modern pistols

I have this setup on my G26, rock solid

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A laser on a pistol will really help both the instructor and the student figure out what is going on. You also get immediate feedback on their aiming technique. You be very surprised at how people interpret your instructions on aiming.

I was planning on making a few of these, but the Lasers were easier. Plus they work on most modern pistols

I have this setup on my G26, rock solid

Hah! I have a few Martinis in various calibers and all are shooters. Let me know when you've got a working prototype!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

One of the easiest aiming aids was the HB pencil bounced off the firing pin. A drill I haven't seen used in years.

 

[Good2Golf]

Will striker-fired pistols throw the pencil as far?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Will striker-fired pistols throw the pencil as far?

No idea. I'm not a striker guy. I've got a couple, but they don't get out often. They're like porch dogs. I don't know why it wouldn't though.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Will striker-fired pistols throw the pencil as far?

As i recall yes the striker actually has a fair bit of force to it.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Just pulled my Canik TP9SA out to try a pencil. Works just fine. Actually seems to hit the pencil quite hard. Took me longer to find a HB pencil than it did to retrieve the gun.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Some of you will like this site

Aim teaching devices for military rifle shooting - historical

Historic Arms Resource Centre facility for British and Commonwealth Enfield and other Miniature calibre training and small-bore TARGET RIFLES (BSA- Birmingham Small Arms Co.), conversion units and accessories with representation of other nations' training rifles, plus Postal League competitions...

www.rifleman.org.uk

 

[Haggis]

That's a feature, not a bug.

It happens with alarming regularity.

 

[KevinB]

A laser on a pistol will really help both the instructor and the student figure out what is going on. You also get immediate feedback on their aiming technique. You be very surprised at how people interpret your instructions on aiming.

I was planning on making a few of these, but the Lasers were easier. Plus they work on most modern pistols



I have this setup on my G26, rock solid

Dots are better, and passive - and do better with obscuring issues like smoke etc.

Most entities who have transitioned to dots have seen massive improvements in the shooting quality of new shooters.

Also FWIW having seen the results both ways - I think teaching students pistols first is a way better method than rifles first (I know that's tough for Armies to fathom).
Pistol are tougher to shooter well - due to the short barrel, and significant rigger pull to weight differences in the platform over rifles.
A good pistol shooter will become a fantastic rifle shooter when they start - while a great rifleman almost always has issues with pistols at the start.

Plus it is MUCH better to ingrain proper safety and handling with a small platform - as the length of carbines and rifles tends to mask true safety issues.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Apparently the leadership of the Navy League gets a bit squeamish at the thought of us teaching them pistol craft, combat shooting techniques and have non-square ranges. Having done Laser tag with the Cadets, they have already learned the basics in their video games and can be quite competent with a laser pistol, crafty bastards gang up on the officers.

 

[markppcli]

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