Will 2021 see a new pistol buy?

[Maxman1]

1935 is the year is started production, John Browning starting designing it in 1914, he died so the design wasn't finished until the mid 1920s.

Edit: The rest of your statement I agree with, be it pistol or rifle, we don't train as much as we should be, hopefully the new budget increases leads to more range time for all platforms.

And it was the heavily redesigned by Dieudonné Saive afterwards, because a lot of the changes he made were based on the 1911, which was under patent until 1928.

 

[FSTO]

Not giving them ammo?

One officer on our ship refused to load their weapon but the rest of us had zero issues.

 

[KevinB]

And it was the heavily redesigned by Dieudonné Saive afterwards, because a lot of the changes he made were based on the 1911, which was under patent until 1928.

Actually having been to Herstal and seen both JMB and DJS’s desks and papers, Saive effectively unfucked the 1935, as JMB was redoing a lot of 1911 stuff that wasn’t desired.

He (Saive) did the double stack mag, and reworked the recoil system, and trigger linkage.

 

[KevinB]

While I personally wouldn’t post a FOUO document on the internet …

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[Fabius]

While I personally wouldn’t post a FOUO document on the internet …

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I saw that too. In the US I am assuming that ICE is the largest user of the P320 outside of DoD?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Precedent setting lawsuits...

More law enforcement agencies reconsider use of popular Sig Sauer P320 handgun​

More than 100 people have reported unintentional discharges and 80 injuries since 2016.​

As safety concerns over the Sig Sauer P320 handgun continue to mount, a growing number of police departments across the United States are rethinking their use of the popular semiautomatic firearm.

Released in 2014, Sig Sauer’s P320 model has become one of the most popular guns in America, with more than 2.5 million units sold. The P320 also has been the standard sidearm for the U.S. military since 2017.

But the firearm has been linked to a series of unintentional discharges.

The Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission is now the latest to permanently ban the P320 from its training facilities. The agency offers training to police and correctional officers in the state.

The agency’s decision came after a four-month investigation prompted by an incident last year in which a police recruit’s P320 discharged while being drawn, injuring both an instructor and another recruit.

“The WSCJTC’s only concern in this process is preserving the safe learning and working environment for its recruits and instructors,” the agency’s report states.

This incident is part of a larger pattern of complaints from more than 100 people who have reported similar issues with the firearm since its release, with at least 80 injuries linked to accidental discharges, according to a 2023 joint investigation by The Trace, a news outlet dedicated to covering gun violence, and The Washington Post.

Following the 2023 investigation, Sig Sauer has faced lawsuits from at least 15 more plaintiffs, and new evidence has surfaced linking the firearm to at least one death and 20 additional injuries, The Trace reported in December.

Since at least 2017, several law enforcement agencies, including the Milwaukee Police Department, the Dallas Police Department and the SEPTA transit police in Philadelphia, as well as other agencies in Alabama, Connecticut, Florida, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin, have pulled the P320 from their arsenals due to concerns over misfirings.

A Georgia jury in June found Sig Sauer liable for a defect in its P320 pistol, awarding $2.35 million to the plaintiff whose gun fired while holstered. The bullet tore through the plantiff’s right upper thigh and ripped out just above his knee, according to court records.

The verdict marked the first time a jury has ruled that the handgun was defectively designed, The Trace reported in June.

More law enforcement agencies reconsider use of popular Sig Sauer P320 handgun • Stateline

As safety concerns over the Sig Sauer P320 handgun continue to mount, a growing number of police departments across the United States are rethinking their use of the popular semiautomatic firearm.

stateline.org

 

[KevinB]

I saw that too. In the US I am assuming that ICE is the largest user of the P320 outside of DoD?

I’m not sure at this point. But ICE had done the testing and set the contract that would have allowed all other DHS entities to buy off it.

The unfortunate aspect of all of this is that the recent changes to the Sig 320 have made the mechanical unintentional discharge virtually impossible without a spring failure

 

[brihard]

I’m not sure at this point. But ICE had done the testing and set the contract that would have allowed all other DHS entities to buy off it.

The unfortunate aspect of all of this is that the recent changes to the Sig 320 have made the mechanical unintentional discharge virtually impossible without a spring failure

So are the highlighted issues completely fixed?

 

[KevinB]

So are the highlighted issues completely fixed?

Well, I’d still rather carry a Glock…

The current 320 design still isn’t what I would consider a solid design, but it isn’t the unmitigated disaster it was. It was a compromise to fit the footprint.

I don’t like some of the materials choices and the spring, but I don’t think the gun is the liability it was.

The oddest thing is that I know of 6 different tests on the 320 by USG entities, outside of MHS for DoD.
3 tests the handgun did very well.
3 tests it was awful.

3 of the testing entities conduct the highest standards of testing out there.

1 group shit canned the gun, despite the the data suggesting it was a viable 30k gun (assuming parts replaced at recommended intervals) as the users black balled it. Users stuck with Glock

2 user groups found the guns came apart sometime after 10k rounds. Both those adopted Glocks (one of those entities is the FBI)

————
ICE Testing went to 10k rounds
While the testing for ICE was detailed, I don’t personally think the testing was necessarily representative of a LE duty gun operating environment.

 

[PrairieFella]

Thats it! Back to Brownings!

 

[CBH99]

Thats it! Back to Brownings!

I was wondering something kinda similar...

Do these issues with the 320 affect our use/ recent purchase of it as the pistol replacement at all?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Thats it! Back to Brownings!

New made, I could live with that.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

New made, I could live with that.

Girsan High-Power MC P35 Match | OPS - EAA Corp.

Girsan High-Power MC P35 Match | OPS Pistols 9mm Semi Auto, G10 Grips, Full Size, Steel Slide and Frame, Blue/Black Finish, Straight Trigger...

eaacorp.com

 

[MilEME09]

I was wondering something kinda similar...

Do these issues with the 320 affect our use/ recent purchase of it as the pistol replacement at all?

all malfunctions are reported, so if you have DWAN access it would be easy enough to search for any investigations or incidents related to the 320.

 

[KevinB]

I was wondering something kinda similar...

Do these issues with the 320 affect our use/ recent purchase of it as the pistol replacement at all?

The C22 from my understanding has all the current safety features of the 320, and thus the conventional forces shouldn’t have issues.
@MilEME09 can give a better answer as he’s actually a tech working on them.



I’m unsure of CANSOFCOM’s 320’s as many where bought prior to the C22 contract.

 

[Maxman1]

New made, I could live with that.

There's a British company called Longthorne that makes new Hi-Powers.

Longthorne Gunmakers | The Ultimate Shotgun | Longthorne Gunroom | English Over and Under | Best English Guns | Pistols

www.longthorneguns.com

They released a video a few years ago, but it's since been made private.

 

[KevinB]

FN America was trying to built High Powers, the issue is that of the Herstal Group, Browning owns the rights, and doesn’t give a shit about handguns, and won’t let anyone else make it.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Buy a CZ 75/85 variant instead. Basically a high power with higher capacity, better rail design, can have ambidextrous controls, and a single action/double action. There are also variants which can have all sorts of fancy things like optics and such on it.