Will the C17s Make it to the Ramp?

[Kirkhill]

It strikes me that some folks need to unwind a bit.  There are an awful lot of ifs, ands and buts in our future.  Not much sense worrying about them yet.

There is a current plan in place. It is being worked. New plans are being developed for whatever might come up.......

As to the Liberals "changing the channel".....Insh'Allah.  That's what people do when they have screwed up and want others to forget the past.  The other side gets a chance to remind folks of the past.  Then its up to the voter.  We then get to Observe the voter, Orient the information to the plan, Decide what to do then Act accordingly and Observe what happens.  Repeat ad nauseam.

If you have been with any organization for  a while you discover there are only two plans.  If plan a isn't working then the guy in charge gets fired and plan b is employed until it stops working and the guy in charge gets fired and you go back to plan a until....

Right now things aren't looking all that bad from the equipment stand point.  Just hope that stuff can end up in hangars before the next election.

 

[karl28]

I sure hope that the PC can win the next election when it is called .    The thought  of the CF not gettings this badly needed equipment  is just a bit on the scary side .

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Dion and his weasel Rock will be to busy banning firearms to go after this.

 

[ringo]

Vote Conservative the Liberals or NDP will screw the CAF's if given the chance.

 

[a_majoor]

Vote Conservative the Liberals or NDP will screw the CAF's if given the chance.

If you live in a "safe" Liberal or NDP riding, start campaigning for the Greens and really throw them for a loop!

 

[C1Dirty]

Why the particular fixation on the C-17 purchase?  Why not also include the JSS and the Chinook buy?

First of all, didn't intend to iritate, just thinking out loud so to speak.  From what I remember, the decision to acquire C17's was driven by the MND and was above and beyond CF expectation.  I think they represent a whole new capability, whereas the other airframes may fall under the category of necessity.  In all likelihood we'll see them with Canadian roundels sometime next year, which is a thousand times better than not expecting them at all. 

 

[Sub_Guy]

"F" Kyoto - Seriously if I hear one more news story about how bad Canada is doing at meeting its commitments........  We can do all we want here in Canada, but that isn't going to stop the CRAP coming up from the OHIO VALLEY.......

The C17's will make it, that is unless they come up with a solar powered aircraft to move our stuff around!!  BLIMPS! 

 

[SeaKingTacco]

C1Dirty-

I wasn't getting irritated, particularly.  I was just curious why a C-17 question popped up out of nowhere.

Cheers!

 

[ringo]

Hopefully Canada will ordered a couple more C-17's before the line closes.
I find it hard to believe the USAF won't wake up and ordered more C-17's, there using flight hours up like crazy.

 

[STONEY]

Points to keep in mind.

1. Latest poll out yesterday shows if election were held today Liberals would win a majority gov.

2. Almost all of the new kit in pipeline with the exception of the C-17 was already planned for by the Liberal gov the Conseravatives
    only held dog and pony shows to make the announcements and claim the credit.

3. It was probably Gen. Hilliers new broom at DND (appointed by the Liberal Gov. Defence Minister)  who first started telling our political
  masters what exactly we needed and got things in motion and even he wasn't particularly enamoured  of the C-17 but went along with
  the Air Forces dream.
4. Until recent times the Forces used to vote seperately in Federal elections and there votes were tallied seperately and added after the
    rest of the country's results were in .  So if there were any really close rideings the Liberals would always heave a sigh of relief because
    Historically at that time the military vote was overwelmingly always Liberal.  It would seem times have changed.

Toodles.

 

[ringo]

IIRC the Liberals had a C-130 purchase in works, I do not recall the Liberals planning to buy C-17's.

 

[mjohnston39]

IIRC the Liberals had a C-130 purchase in works, I do not recall the Liberals planning to buy C-17's.

The Liberals had planned (under Martin mind you) for JSS, C130 replacement, SAR replacement, medium lift helos, MGS, medium trucks and MMEV.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/reports/dps/pdf/dps_e.pdf (see pg 20/21)

But, I wouldn't be surprised to see "Kyoto or aircraft-carriers" in the next election...

Mike.

 

[Loachman]

2. Almost all of the new kit in pipeline with the exception of the C-17 was already planned for by the Liberal gov the Conseravatives
    only held dog and pony shows to make the announcements and claim the credit.

Except that it will actually appear because of a Conservative government, whereas the Lieberals would have kept putting it off indefinitely while continuing to announce their "plan" to acquire it. In every budget, all of the major expenses occurred at the end of the five-year period.

4. Historically at that time the military vote was overwelmingly always Liberal.  It would seem times have changed.

You must hang out with a much different crowd than me to give this skewed view.

 

[SnakeTech]

Here's my 2 cents. From my sources, C17's are a done deal. Tech training in the states starting in January, most Techs coming off the Hurc's in Trenton for the initial training but they are looking for Techs with Hurc, Buff or Dash 8 experience. First aircraft is to arrive in march with first aircraft operational by July. Aircraft to be based out of Trenton.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Here's my 2 cents. From my sources, C17's are a done deal. Tech training in the states starting in January, most Techs coming off the Hurc's in Trenton for the initial training but they are looking for Techs with Hurc, Buff or Dash 8 experience. First aircraft is to arrive in march with first aircraft operational by July. Aircraft to be based out of Trenton.

That's a hell of a high-quality 3rd post!


Matthew. 

 

[acheo]

Stop-Work Order for C-17 Aircraft Supply Items: http://feinstein.senate.gov/06releases/r-boeing818.htm

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q3/060818e_nr.html

Unless the situation has changed since August I doubt our C17 will make it before the Sikorski's.... if they ever make it....

 

[George Wallace]

Stop-Work Order for C-17 Aircraft Supply Items: http://feinstein.senate.gov/06releases/r-boeing818.htm

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q3/060818e_nr.html

Unless the situation has changed since August I doubt our C17 will make it before the Sikorski's.... if they ever make it....

Perhaps you ought to read this dated article a little more closely.

....re-evaluating the financial impact should the U.S. government not order.......

 

[MarkOttawa]

But how will we get to Darfur? 

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Globesmasher]

Howdy folks.

Thought I would jump in on this discussion as a first/inaugural post.  And, I'm a trash hauler, and I have been involved (a lot) on this project.

The C-17 program, or ACP-S, is about half way through negotiations and deals.

Yes, training is underway.  We have aircrew (pilots and loadmasters) currently training since August 2006 down at Altus AFB, and we have maintainers also conducting their initial cadre training.  The training LOA is something entirely different from the purchase LOA.  The training has been signed for, bought and pretty much paid for - and it costs quite a lot of money as well.

As far as the actual aircraft go - nothing has been signed as of today, either in terms of an LOA or a contract.  Things had proceeded extremely well up until the first week of December 2006.  Things were going very well indeed until Industry Canada decided that it didn't want to "play well with others".  Initially, the LOA was due to be signed on 1 Dec 06.  That didn't happen.

The contract is hung up on the Industrial Regional Benefits (IRB) clause ... and the whole issue now sits at a very high Ministerial level .. well beyond the DND and CF folks.

The aircraft delivery schedule was going to be tail P-174 in June 2007, P-180 in Oct 2007 and then the 3rd and 4th aircraft in March and April of 2008 respectively.

The contract signing delay may see all that pushed back towards the right by about another 4 or 5 months now due to the contract delays.

The project was slated for just over $3 billion ... and a large chunk has already been spent on training the initial cadres.  The remainder has yet to be spent ... no contract has been signed.  Out of interest, about $1.2 billion is how much the 4 tails will cost.  The rest of the cash goes towards all the other stuff associated with the project.

So - that being said - there is all kinds of speculation about spring elections and stuff ...... I'll steer clear of that - but this is where the project currently sits.

All our major capital expenditure projects are only one election away from cancellation, closure and failure.  That's life I guess - or is it just politics?

 

[Globesmasher]

Dec 15, 2006

This was the contract deadline.  It passed and no contract was signed.
The issue still lies at a political level and on political issues - the IRBs.

We're hoping for a Feb 07 signing.  The price will now go up, of course, since the original deal was based on an economy, an exchange rate and a price tag from Jan 2006.  We'll now have to re-submit for a Feb 2007 price tag.

The first scheduled tail, P-174 has now officially been lost to us.  The first one we can hope to get, if the contract gets signed in Feb 07, will be tail P-180 in October 2007.

It's all up to the politicians now - the Privy Counsel, the PM and the Ministers.

It's out of our hands.