Will the C17s Make it to the Ramp?

[aesop081]

Trenton has been a workhorse base for the CF....its nice to see some investment placed into it.

 

[Badanai]

There is a lot of plans for new buildings New Tower, New fire hall ( ground breaking around sept 2010) when Heavy euipment building and new EME building. just to name a few. The amount of money thats going to be poured into Trenton is going to be insane...

 

[Globesmasher]

Minority government is trailing in the polls and promises of an election in the near term from the opposition.  Will rubber make it to the ramp? 

Latest polls show that we may not be facing a spring election ... despite the recent fears .. it appears to be bad timing for all parties concerned.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070116/sc_poll_070116/20070116?hub=TopStories

Hopefully we can get the final contracts signed in Jan/Feb as currently planned before this fear becomes a reality.

 

[Astrodog]

Hopefully we can get the final contracts signed in Jan/Feb as currently planned before this fear becomes a reality.

+1
That article brightened my day a bit!  ;D

 

[Globesmasher]

That article brightened my day a bit!  ;D

Astrodog:
Glad to hear that cheered things up .... but as 20 Jan rolled by here is the bad news ... and where the projects currently sits at ...
Sorry to ruin your good mood.

:'(

Quebec quarrel delays aircraft delivery, Boeing pressed to spend in province

19 Jan 07
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DANIEL LEBLANC, OTTAWA

The delivery of Canada's first military cargo aircraft faces delays while Boeing is embroiled in a backroom battle with Public Works Minister Michael Fortier over Quebec's share of economic benefits flowing from the $3.4-billion purchase.

The negotiations, which were scheduled to close last month, are running into overtime and jeopardizing the plan to deliver the first of four C-17 aircraft to the Canadian Forces in June.

To obtain the contract, U.S.-based Boeing Co. has to pledge to buy supplies and services worth the exact value of the purchase in Canada. This package of regional benefits can be spent directly to build or maintain the Boeing C-17s, or any other current and future Boeing aircraft.

With billions at stake, Boeing is facing political pressure to invest heavily in Quebec, where 55 per cent to 60 per cent of Canada's aerospace industry is located.

But the company plans to spend only 30 per cent of the economic benefits in the politically sensitive province, while directing the rest to other provinces, industry and government sources said.

One of the issues facing the company is that it has a number of competitors in Quebec, such as Bombardier Inc., and Boeing prefers to invest most of its money elsewhere.

A number of Quebec businesses and politicians -- including Mr. Fortier -- are fighting to boost the province's share of the regional benefits.

He hasn't publicly set out a target for Quebec's share of these economic benefits, but he is staunchly defending the industry that is mainly located in the Montreal area. Mr. Fortier, an unelected senator, will be running in Vaudreuil-Soulanges, just west of Montreal, in the next election. As Public Works Minister, he has the final responsibility for signing the contract.

"Mr. Fortier wants the maximum for Quebec. He is the political minister responsible for the Montreal region," a federal official said.

He is working alongside Industry Minister Maxime Bernier, responsible for regional benefits. Mr. Bernier, who represents Beauce riding in south-central Quebec, is more laissez-faire in his attitude to the distribution of benefits.

Sources characterized it as Mr. Bernier acting as good cop to Mr. Fortier's bad cop in negotiations.

"Mr. Fortier is acting as the minister for Quebec, while Mr. Bernier is acting as the minister for Canada," an industry official said, who added that Mr. Fortier's goals are "unrealistic." The most recent round of negotiations between government and Boeing officials occurred last week in California, where the C-17 is built.

Boeing has warned that it can guarantee its current price only until the end of this month, saying the cost could go up after that.

Sources said Mr. Fortier shot back by saying the government doesn't have to sign the deal if Boeing refuses to budge.

Sue Dabrowski, general manager of the Quebec Aerospace Association, said her members have high expectations in terms of regional benefits.

"In Quebec, we have 60 per cent of the market. We want 60 per cent of the economic benefits," she said.

The Bloc Quebecois is also arguing that most of the money should flow into Quebec, stating that if this were an automobile purchase, the money would end up in Ontario.

Under the current proposal, Ontario would get about one-third of the benefits, while the western provinces would share 20 per cent. The eastern provinces stand to get slightly less than 10 per cent, with the remaining portion still to be allocated.

Ron Kane, vice-president of the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada, said the industrial-benefit package will likely fall short of fulfilling the expectations in Quebec.

"Regional balance is always an issue," he said. "Quebec is a significant portion -- about 56 or 57 per cent -- of Canada's industry. But that in itself is not the guideline in terms of what that regional allocation or distribution of benefits should look like." Mr. Kane confirmed that not all of the players in the Quebec aerospace industry can expect to receive major contracts in that context.

"There may be companies in Quebec that are natural fits. There may be companies in Quebec that are not natural fits, particularly where there could be a competitive situation," he said.

The lobbying over regional benefits will not end with the C-17 negotiations. The government is planning to purchase $4.7-billion in Chinook helicopters from Boeing and $5-billion in Hercules C130J aircraft from Lockheed-Martin this year.

In these two cases as well, the companies will have to plow the exact amount of the sale in direct and indirect benefits into the Canadian economy.

Boeing refused to comment on the continuing C-17 negotiations.

 

[rmacqueen]

The Bloc Quebecois is also arguing that most of the money should flow into Quebec, stating that if this were an automobile purchase, the money would end up in Ontario.

Was it not Bombardier in Quebec that built the Iltis and MLVW?

 

[George Wallace]

This pisses me off.  If this twit wants to delay the contract, so that Quebec gets a major share of the deal, and in the end the guaranteed purchase price is no longer valid and the price goes up, then Quebec should pay the difference.  It is time we got RESPONSIBLE Government.  Which brings up a good question, how is it that Mr. Fortier, as an unelected Senator, is also Public Works Minister, and why can he have the power to hold up a major equipment purchase?  If necessary, it is time to SUE Mr. Fortier, the unelected Senator from Quebec, for the costs of the delays.

 

[GAP]

I was just wondering the same thing. This partisan bull needs to stop.

 

[geo]

Heeeey,
Mr Fortier was appointed by Mr Harper.
Elected or not, Mr Fortier represents the Conservative values of Mr Harper - I guess......

 

[Kirkhill]

"In Quebec, we have 60 per cent of the market. We want 60 per cent of the economic benefits," she said.

I guess she has a different definition of market than I do.  In my markets the people with the money own the market and the suppliers are trying to relieve them of the money by supplying goods and services they need/want.  If I have 60 per cent of the market then 60 per cent of all sales to that market are supplied by me.  If the market isn't buying my product then I have 0 per cent of the market.

The CF isn't buying what the Quebec companies are offering.  They have 0 per cent of the market.

Now Boeing might need to buy some of what Quebec companies make, but that is an entirely different matter.

As to Fortier - it has all been said.

One more "bright" note, according to my understanding of a French language report - the "Hammer" held by PWGSC is that if Boeing won't sell at the price at which PWGSC wants to buy then PWGSC will be forced to lease them.

I am not sure how strong a negotiating position that is.

 

[George Wallace]

Well of course she could be right.

Sue Dabrowski, general manager of the Quebec Aerospace Association, said her members have high expectations in terms of regional benefits.

"In Quebec, we have 60 per cent of the market. We want 60 per cent of the economic benefits," she said.

As the Government falsely propped up Bombardier in the Aerospace Industry, we saw them buy out De Havilland and put the Dash Series and Turbo Prop development in the Trash, as well as the disappearance of A.V. Roe and other non-Quebec Aviation Companies, Quebec may just have that market share.

Our fine Aviation history is going down the tubes, every day the Government gives Bombardier money.  What have we got back in return?  Definitely nothing on any of the Loans they have received.  The death of many of our manufacturing plants outside of Quebec.  Crap in the way of Trucks, Rail Cars, and Aircraft......Seadoo and Skidoo are about it for their success. 

Good money after Bad.  :

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I don't think we'll see an election until the Fall at the earliest but then anything can happen...so hopefully this will be a done deal by then.
I was one who thought the EH101 would never be cancelled no matter how much rhetoric Jean the Cretin was throwing around. A lot of people in the PMO at the time said the same...never happen too expensive to cancel etc....guess what?? Never say never. :rage:

 

[Globesmasher]

...... then PWGSC will be forced to lease them.

That would not be a good thing for us.

The RAF have learned a lot of lessons from the lease of their 4 aircraft.  The lease cost them more than an outright purchase did and came with way too many restrictions form Boeing.  However, that being said, they had only planned to lease the C-17 on an interim basis until the Airbus A400M came on line (which was planned to be in the 2008 timeframe).  Now that the A400M is delayed even more and after the success the C-17 has brought to the RAF, they plan to buy their 4 tails after the lease expires and add 1 or 2 more tails (outright purchase) to their Brize Norton fleet.

A "lease" for us would be better than nothing ... but not the desireable end-state.

I sure hope it doesn't come to that.  :-\

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

All I have to say is that if Harper has actually authorized this nonsense, I've immediately lost a lot of respect for the man.

I voted for him and support him because I believed he was a man of principle (as an example I was deadset against the GST cut, and would've preferred a conserted debt repayment program with some minor income tax cuts such as the "working income deduction"). 

This sadly shows just the opposite and is pandering of the worst possible kind.

In short, "Steve, grow a pair and tell Quebec to pound salt...."

[Rant off]


Matthew. 

 

[George Wallace]

Feel free to rant Matthew.  We all feel pretty much the same way.  None of us Taxpayers likes to see Government waste our Tax Dollars. 

It may be time for this Government to look into revamping the Procurement Processes that we currently have, and perhaps do away with some of the bureaucrats who act as 'middlemen' in the process.  Too many chefs in the kitchen.

 

[Kirkhill]

Feel free to rant Matthew. 

Amen

 

[rmacqueen]

Of course, it may all be showboating for the Quebec audience and a deal will be struck at the last minute after they "tried" to get more for Quebec.  Then it will be mean ol' boeings fault

 

[Globesmasher]

Of course, it may all be showboating for the Quebec audience ....

I sure hope this is the case.  It is disconcerting to have major National Interests held hostage by myopic, petty, regional concerns.

 

[geo]

Given the number of contracts in the works, there is no need to stand on formalities for the one contract.

Given the Conservative's penchant for unilateral action when things become stagnant, I doubt we'll dawdle too long.

 

[JackD]

So Bombardier is demanding a cut - but why didn't they agree long ago to do subcontract work for Boeing?  In a so-called capitalistic country isn't it the place of the company's sales reps to hustle out to find the work, and isn't the place of a federal government to benefit the nation as a whole? I guess Canadian politics will never change...