Naval Security Team
- Thread starter FSTO
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FSTO
Army.ca Fixture
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Pretty much.
Now I'm confused - what's the change then?
ArmyRick
Army.ca Veteran
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Same. Educate me please, salty sea dogs. Tell us more
OldSolduer
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Hear hear my good man! I am with you!!’
FSTO
Army.ca Fixture
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Reading the story again (it's written by the NST XO) I think the skills built up by the NST prior to COVID have all been pretty much lost and they have to start from the bottom again.
One thing I can tell you, the FP training we received post 911 was laughable at best. Glad to see more seriousness taken towards the training now. Back in the day you gave a poor OS a rifle and soldier card, gave them a pat on the back and a "I hope to hell you have nothing happen on your watch!" look in the eye.
Oh the good old days!
One thing I can tell you, the FP training we received post 911 was laughable at best. Glad to see more seriousness taken towards the training now. Back in the day you gave a poor OS a rifle and soldier card, gave them a pat on the back and a "I hope to hell you have nothing happen on your watch!" look in the eye.
Oh the good old days!
daftandbarmy
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I remember heading into Naden around that time and asking the guy to 'please don't point that at me, thank you very much'
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Good old days? What do you think has changed??!
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That's because the navy views small arms as an "army" job, and not a sailor job.
I was shocked when we went to my first foreign port with a FP Duty Watch, and the sailors were scared of their own firearms. Maybe the RCN needs to bring back mandatory cutlass/sword training, alongside pistols and carbines. Would be good for PT, and might reinforce the idea that getting up close and personal with a pointy object/firearm is a very traditional navy job.
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I would argue that the deterioration in small arms proficiency (and therefore fear in of your small arms) actually comes less from an institutional disregard for the training, but from a more universal institutional deterioration of professionalism, discipline, and commitment.
Small arms instructors and the school used to take pride in ensuring people actually learned what they are supposed to know; that is, that people actually became more than just safe, but competent at weapons handling. Instruction lasted a whole day, but now, instructors at he range do everything as fast as possible to get you in and out of there, because the sooner you are done, the sooner they go home for the day. Before, you had to actually pass the qualification shoot in order to pass the qualification shoot. No, that wasn't a typo. No one fails the test anymore, no matter how bad they do. In fact, there was a short period recently where the range was missing the targets (the paper) needed to actually score a portion of the qualification shoot.
Colin Parkinson
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Naval and Army Reserve units based on the Coast could take on part of this tasking. The Army Reserves can teach gun handling basics to the Naval Reserve and the Naval Reserves can teach ship/boat stuff to the Army Reserve.
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When did this happen, because in my 21 years things are about the same as they always were.
Guns are "army" to the RCN, and RCAF. I've heard people complain about having to learn "army" stuff when they should be turning wrenches, or filling spreadsheets for a couple for decades. If your sailors need a full day at the range to practice IAs and stoppages/safe weapons handling, it's because the ships have allowed skills to fade.
Every ship has a small arms locker, why aren't sailors spending an hour a week practicing? Because the RCN would rather spend time on more "navy" things like the 1,000,000 fire in the EO's cabin.
FSTO
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Our Boarding Party Training was comical when it came to small arms and movement and cover tactics (there was none).
Halifax Tar
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I haven't seen the same "fear" of firearms on the east coast; or resistance calling it army stuff but the basic safe handling and marksmanship is definitely a tertiary skill for the Navy.
I can compromise and say its probably a soft skill, but a soft skill that needs to be maintained to a high standard. This is an area where we do not identify talent well.
Range staff should not belong to the Boatswain trade. We should be identifying skilled and competent shooters and gun people in our organization (Pan CAF) and be employing them at the ranges. And these would likely be people who own their own and spend oodles of time fine tuning and practicing. Also every PLQ, ILP and ALP should have a portion for a general RSO qualification.
I also think there should open range days where you can sign up on line and come to range get some time behind the rifle and/or side arm. Sign up online and you have 300rds available that day for you to practice with.
Our big problem is most people only handle a firearm with live ammunition once a year.
Lastly, and I have beat this drum before here, the firearms qualification should be as important as a PT test.
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daftandbarmy
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Halifax Tar
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Please tell me this already happens, at least to some extent?
Small boat operations being taught to the Army Reserve, small arms & ‘gun stuff’ taught to the Navy Reserve - both branches becoming more qualified & sufficient at a variety of skills.
Would also be a lot more interesting than some of the stuff we used to do for training nights/weekends when I was at my Reserve unit.
