Liberals announce $1.24B sole-sourced deal to upgrade search and rescue helicopter fleet

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ch-149-cormorant-helicopters-search-rescue-1.6090353

While not saying how much the plan would cost, sky high by DND standards must be really high.

 

[Maxman1]

The government had initially budgeted $1.03B for the project when it was announced in 2018, but negotiations broke down over the cost being deemed too expensive
Author of the article: The Canadian Press Lee Berthiaume
Published Dec 22, 2022

OTTAWA — Canada is planning to spend $1.24 billion to upgrade its fleet of military search-and-rescue helicopters — about $200 million more than originally planned.

The federal government has been planning to upgrade the Cormorant fleet for years, which will include modernizing its 13 existing helicopters and buying three new ones.

But negotiations between Ottawa and Leonardo, whose subsidiaries built the original helicopters, broke down in 2019 after the European company’s proposal was deemed too expensive.

The government had initially budgeted $1.03 billion for the project when it was announced in 2018.

Asked about the cost increase, Defence Department spokeswoman Jessica Lamirande said negotiations were restarted in December 2021 “to attempt to reach an acceptable and affordable solution.”

The two sides eventually decided that upgrading the existing fleet to Norway’s standards for its version of the Cormorant was the most cost-effective approach, she added.

It was not immediately clear how Norway’s variant, which the Scandinavian country recently acquired for its own search-and-rescue services, differs from what Canada originally wanted.

However, Lamirande said the Cormorants will meet the Canadian military’s high-level requirements.

Canada will consider adding additional capabilities “as financial risks are retired, including inflationary and foreign exchange fluctuations,” she added.

The contract announced Thursday also includes the purchase of a simulator from Montreal-based CAE Inc.

Then-defence minister Harjit Sajjan first announced plans to modernize the Cormorant fleet in August 2019, nearly 20 years after the helicopters entered service.

The first aircraft was supposed to be delivered this year.

But the Defence Department publicly revealed in an update in May 2021 that “negotiations with the contractor were put on pause due to the proposals being unaffordable.”

It warned at the time that alternative solutions may not meet the military’s full requirements.

The Cormorants are currently used to conduct search-and-rescue missions out of Comox, B.C., Gander, Nfld., and Greenwood, N.S. The addition of three more helicopters is expected to see the fleet expand to include operations out of Trenton, Ont.

Liberals announce $1.24B sole-sourced deal to upgrade search and rescue helicopter fleet

 

[SupersonicMax]

So, a four year delay over $200M, or 0.5% of our budget? That’s be like most of us making a huge deal over $500 on a car purchase….

 

[suffolkowner]

So, a four year delay over $200M, or 0.5% of our budget? That’s be like most of us making a huge deal over $500 on a car purchase….

but the process must be adhered to

 

[Fabius]

Since $1 CAD in 2018 is now equal to $1.14 CAD in 2022 or in other words 1CAD now will get you about 88% of what it would have in 2018 this project is likely getting less.
Also the opportunity cost of not having the project staff working on other files for x amount of time over 4 years.
Oh well process over result and penny wise dollar foolish.

 

[Good2Golf]

Good thing it won’t *take more than the original budget of $650M to upgrade them…oh, wait…

 

[CBH99]

The government had initially budgeted $1.03B for the project when it was announced in 2018, but negotiations broke down over the cost being deemed too expensive
Author of the article: The Canadian Press Lee Berthiaume
PublThe Cormorants are currently used to conduct search-and-rescue missions out of Comox, B.C., Gander, Nfld., and Greenwood, N.S. The addition of three more helicopters is expected to see the fleet expand to include operations out of Trenton, Ont.

Liberals announce $1.24B sole-sourced deal to upgrade search and rescue helicopter fleet

What are the feelings on returning some airframes to Trenton? Or should the 3 additional machines go to each location they are operating out of now, for redundancy or to be a fallback bird?

 

[kev994]

What are the feelings on returning some airframes to Trenton? Or should the 3 additional machines go to each location they are operating out of now, for redundancy or to be a fallback bird?

The Griffon is not suitable as a primary SAR asset and this two-year stopgap is long overdue to end. Range is too short (AOR goes to the North Pole, the Griffon is a joke for anything past Sudbury), payload is too low, it doesn’t have a 4-axis autopilot, it doesn’t have enough power. The last two mean that hovering over the water is extremely difficult, there’s no references and no autopilot, and if you mess it up the aircraft doesn’t have enough power to bail you out. This needs to end.

Edit: it also can’t fly in icing conditions. In Canada.

 

[KevinB]

I’m shocked I tell you, to hear that the Griffon has yet another role it’s assigned to that it’s unsuitable for.

Wait.

No I’m not.

 

[Good2Golf]

I’m shocked I tell you, to hear that the Griffon has yet another role it’s assigned to that it’s unsuitable for.

Wait.

No I’m not.

I think you were looking for this @KevinB

 

[KevinB]

@Good2Golf

 

[Maxman1]

I’m shocked I tell you, to hear that the Griffon has yet another role it’s assigned to that it’s unsuitable for.

Wait.

No I’m not.

You mean, besides every role it's assigned to?

 

[dimsum]

Edit: it also can’t fly in icing conditions. In Canada.

Honest question bc I don't know much about the fling-wing side of the house:

What helicopters are certified to fly in icing? Isn't the big spinning thing bad for ice accumulation?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Honest question bc I don't know much about the fling-wing side of the house:

What helicopters are certified to fly in icing? Isn't the big spinning thing bad for ice accumulation?

Cormorant and Cyclone, for sure. Not certain about Chinook.

 

[Good2Golf]

Cormorant and Cyclone, for sure. Not certain about Chinook.

Hook is certified for flight in known light icing. It has engine inlet anti-icing and heated windscreen for anti-icing, but not active blade de-icing…other than having 10,000hp to shed ice if need be (it has proven performance in that department, though not approved for intentional flight into anything worse than Light).

Anecdotally the HH-47 would have had full de-ice capability. It is an OEM option for those that wish, backed up with 1/6 MW of on-board electrical generation.

 

[dapaterson]

Hook is certified for flight in known light icing. It has engine inlet anti-icing and heated windscreen for anti-icing, but not active blade de-icing…other than having 10,000hp to shed ice if need be (it has proven performance in that department, though not approved for intentional flight into anything worse than Light).

Anecdotally the HH-47 would have had full de-ice capability. It is an OEM option for those that wish, backed up with 1/6 MW of on-board electrical generation.

But are there USB plugs for the pilot to keep their iPad flight manual fully charged?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The Cyclone has a Rotor Icing Protection System (RIPS).

 

[SeaKingTacco]

But are there USB plugs for the pilot to keep their iPad flight manual fully charged?

Don’t be daft.

 

[Good2Golf]

But are there USB plugs for the pilot to keep their iPad flight manual fully charged?

Aeronautical-spec USB-C was in the plans for a mid-life, but you can plug the USB brick into the 115vac plug in the cockpit plug.

 

[SupersonicMax]

But are there USB plugs for the pilot to keep their iPad flight manual fully charged?

Isn’t it a fair requirement?

 

[dimsum]

But are there USB plugs for the pilot to keep their iPad flight manual fully charged?

Electronic charts are not to be used for navigation