CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[tomydoom]

Therefore abandon protections to appease the US, is I suspect the endgame.

The very protections that kept Canada from feeling the worst of the 2008 global finance collapse. Hmmm, no thanks.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Hassett says to focus on the plain language of the executive order (which is all about fentanyl and border security) and not view it as a trade war, yet Trump is the one saying the number one issue is balancing out trade. And now Trump is raising the issue of access to our banking sector to resolve the tariffs. It’s not Canada that’s misunderstanding the point of the executive order that’s supposed to be focused on border security, it’s Trump.

Not to mention the US Sec of Trade before the tariffs were announced, "they are acting swiftly, and if they execute it, there will be no tariff."
For the record, here's the Truth Social posts in question, on Mexico ....

... and on Canada

#MovingGoalposts anyone?

Also, here's what MEX's prez posted on her own socials:


For even more clarity, here's part of the text from the Exec Order (highlights mine):


Note that the bit in blue could be fixed on the U.S. side of the border.

Now, all this assumes we can read what POTUS47 wants just by what he says and writes.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Not to mention the US Sec of Trade before the tariffs were announced, "they are acting swiftly, and if they execute it, there will be no tariff."
For the record, here's the Truth Social posts in question, on Mexico ....
View attachment 90978
... and on Canada
View attachment 90979
#MovingGoalposts anyone?

Also, here's what MEX's prez posted on her own socials:
View attachment 90982

For even more clarity, here's part of the text from the Exec Order (highlights mine):
View attachment 90980
View attachment 90981
Note that the bit in blue could be fixed on the U.S. side of the border.

Now, all this assumes we can read what POTUS47 wants just by what he says and writes.

And there it is.

Mexico moves 10,000 troops to the border for drug interdiction.
Canada promises money and leases two helicopters.

Mexico gains the concession of US action on curtailing the flow of guns to Mexico.
Canadians still being killed because of the uncontrolled smuggling of guns into Canada.

 

[brihard]

Minor point but the capabilities are not the same. Xplore is run off of geostationary satellites currently, lag is a significant issue. The Telesat LEO Lightspeed network is not yet operational or built…

I’m not saying it’s the same, just that Ontario recognized them as one of two qualied options. Queen’s Park never consulted me personally on it.

i was under the impression that US banks just didnt want to meet the regulatory requirements

Yup. In the U.S., banks are state regulated. Here they’re federal. We regulate relatively tightly to protect solvency. That served us very well in 2008-9. If US banks want to conform to Canadian regulations they can probably access our market.

 

[calculus]

Trump’s press secretary says report of March 1 tariffs ‘false’; Canadian source says no w

It seem like Mexico has found the key. The same key I've been pushing for all along.

Don't be petulant and get your ass to the negotiating table. Tariffs were a way to get our attention and prove Trump is serious and not willing to put up with the long, drawn out, bafflegab games that the trudeau government is famous for.

Perhaps finally, someone sitting with trudeau will be able to make our child PM understand things. Hopefully by 15:00 today.

I can just about guarantee things will switch to the better when Trump doesn't have to deal with people that backstab him, carry out gossip, rumour and whisper campaigns behind his back. He knows trudeau is a two faced opportunist and chronic liar and he doesn't trust him or his government. As most Canadians also don't.

Surely we could put some resources along the border? Even having our new Kingfishers fly "patrols" with all those fancy sensors would have a positive impact. We have a lot of aircraft with EO/IR that could participate.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I’m not saying it’s the same, just that Ontario recognized them as one of two qualied options. Queen’s Park never consulted me personally on it.

Yup. In the U.S., banks are state regulated. Here they’re federal. We regulate relatively tightly to protect solvency. That served us very well in 2008-9. If US banks want to conform to Canadian regulations they can probably access our market.

Xactly. I doubt TD demanded changes to US banking laws in exchange for their access. The US banks need to do the same. Conform.

 

[Remius]

I’m not saying it’s the same, just that Ontario recognized them as one of two qualied options. Queen’s Park never consulted me personally on it.

Yup. In the U.S., banks are state regulated. Here they’re federal. We regulate relatively tightly to protect solvency. That served us very well in 2008-9. If US banks want to conform to Canadian regulations they can probably access our market.

There are already American banks that do.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Surely we could put some resources along the border? Even having our new Kingfishers fly "patrols" with all those fancy sensors would have a positive impact. We have a lot of aircraft with EO/IR that could participate.

We have a lot of LAVs with surveillance suites also.

 

[The Bread Guy]

We have a lot of LAVs with surveillance suites also.

Enough to cover the border in question?

Edited to add: We also have surveillance airframes of more than one type, and I don't know how busy they may be at any given moment, but I very vaguely remember reading on the boards here about potential legal issues re: military hardware surveilling in Canada. Happy to hear more on that from those who'd be in the know & able to share publicly. Same question re: surveillance using army stuff. TIA

 

[Fishbone Jones]

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2025-02-03/canada-not-optimistic-about-a-mexico-style-tariff-reprieve-says-new-york-times

Oh Canada! Showing weakness with a defeatist attitude is not the way to start negotiations. Saying stupid shit like this shows the lack of confidence our current government has in its own negotiators. Amateurs.

Fucking trudeau and his jellyfish.

Trump called trudeau this morning and said he'd call back at 15:00.

A good guess would be that Trump said "Here's how we can avoid this. Think about it. I'll call back at three. You give me your answer." Trudeau gathers his three or four advisers, Butts, Telford, Carney and says "What do you think?"

I guess we'll find out how serious they take it at 3 o'clock.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Enough to cover the border in question?

Of course not. However, if Canada is unaware of the hotspots, where they can be placed, we deserve to have our asses handed to us.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Of course not. However, if Canada is unaware of the hotspots, where they can be placed, we deserve to have our asses handed to us.

Agreed. That said, what's your read re: how it'll be taken by POTUS47 if CAN offers increased surveillance with AFVs at hot spots, compared to 10K troops MEX coughed up? I suspect that's not "deal" enough.

 

[Quirky]

Oh Canada! Showing weakness with a defeatist attitude is not the way to start negotiations.

“We are all in this together.” - Justin Trudeau 2025.

 

[QV]

The LPC wants a fight with Trump. It plays well to Canadian anti-American and anti-Trump sentiment and will no doubt boost them in the polls. Any changes that need to be made to avoid a tariff war would be admission the LPC has been doing things badly for ten years.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Xactly. I doubt TD demanded changes to US banking laws in exchange for their access. The US banks need to do the same. Conform.

TD has been slapped - hard - because they had lack money laundering practices in place, both in Canada and the US.

The grass is NOT greening on our side of the border in terms of banking. Its an Oligarchy here, just like our telecoms and passenger air travel and we PAY for this lack of competition.

 

[Remius]

TD has been slapped - hard - because they had lack money laundering practices in place, both in Canada and the US.

The grass is NOT greening on our side of the border in terms of banking. It’s an Oligarchy here, just like our telecoms and passenger air travel and we PAY for this lack of competition.

Monopoly.

 

[QV]

TD has been slapped - hard - because they had lack money laundering practices in place, both in Canada and the US.

The grass is NOT greening on our side of the border in terms of banking. Its an Oligarchy here, just like our telecoms and passenger air travel and we PAY for this lack of competition.

Biggest fine in US banking history IIRC.

 

[brihard]

Enough to cover the border in question?

Edited to add: We also have surveillance airframes of more than one type, and I don't know how busy they may be at any given moment, but I very vaguely remember reading on the boards here about potential legal issues re: military hardware surveilling in Canada. Happy to hear more on that from those who'd be in the know & able to share publicly. Same question re: surveillance using army stuff. TIA

From a practical standpoint, the Canada-US border is nearly three times as long as the Mexico-US border, and in the winter months is much less amendable to static presence and patrolling. The Mexico-US border also has the advantage that 2/3 or so is the Rio Grande, a very useful physical barrier from a border enforcement standpoint.

That’s not to say border monitoring and surveillance of Can-U.S. cannot be done; just that if the Mexico border is the “easy” level, ours is “hard” from the standpoint of physical geography. We have immense swaths of land where one can just walk across, and if surveillance or a checkpoint pops up, you go east or west a couple km.

As for the legalities of a CAF Aid to the Civil Power or other assistance to police, others here can better speak to it. We’re dealing with border enforcement and spotting things, not really search or seizure or technical evidence gathering that would implicate section 8 Charter protections and that are largely the realm of peace officers. CAF assets could certainly help spot crossings. Realistically, given how close to the border you can get by road in many places and that the U.S. focus is traffic south, this would probably be at its most useful if we were informing American authorities of traffic headed south. Someone in the Canadian side simply heading towards the border probably hasn’t done anything arrestable. And CAF members would have no lawful detention or arrest authority unless something special was put in place.

There are things CAF could bring to the table, but it’s not a simple matter of sending 2 PPCLI to form extended line at Emerson and stop people crossing.

 

[The Bread Guy]

From a practical standpoint, the Canada-US border is nearly three times as long as the Mexico-US border, and in the winter months is much less amendable to static presence and patrolling. The Mexico-US border also has the advantage that 2/3 or so is the Rio Grande, a very useful physical barrier from a border enforcement standpoint.

That’s not to say border monitoring and surveillance of Can-U.S. cannot be done; just that if the Mexico border is the “easy” level, ours is “hard” from the standpoint of physical geography. We have immense swaths of land where one can just walk across, and if surveillance or a checkpoint pops up, you go east or west a couple km.

As for the legalities of a CAF Aid to the Civil Power or other assistance to police, others here can better speak to it. We’re dealing with border enforcement and spotting things, not really search or seizure or technical evidence gathering that would implicate section 8 Charter protections and that are largely the realm of peace officers. CAF assets could certainly help spot crossings. Realistically, given how close to the border you can get by road in many places and that the U.S. focus is traffic south, this would probably be at its most useful if we were informing American authorities of traffic headed south. Someone in the Canadian side simply heading towards the border probably hasn’t done anything arrestable. And CAF members would have no lawful detention or arrest authority unless something special was put in place.

Thx for a bit more of the rest of the story.

There are things CAF could bring to the table, but it’s not a simple matter of sending 2 PPCLI to form extended line at Emerson and stop people crossing.

I didn't figure that - although on some socials, some people seem to think it's as "simple" as essentially doing that with CBSA

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Agreed. That said, what's your read re: how it'll be taken by POTUS47 if CAN offers increased surveillance with AFVs at hot spots, compared to 10K troops MEX coughed up? I suspect that's not "deal" enough.

I'm not sure. That's why we need to sit down and act calmly and purposefully. We need to look them in the eye and ask what they want and what we have in our power to honestly and urgently give.

Canada couldn't muster 2000 troops, never mind 10,000. We need another angle.

Maybe trudeau should offer Trump the purchase of 20-30 Predator drones, strictly to fly the border, during the phone call. We already have US ones flying the corridor where I am.