Updated Army Service Dress project

[Eaglelord17]

Pete? Are you LARPING as a Canadian?

So because I take a full equality stance I am now Hegseth? You all are arguing for sexist double standards.

Canada has dropped standards for years and it is embarrassing. I watched a 380lbs alcoholic pass the force test once, no way he should have stayed in yet nothing was done.

Hegseth is a idiot, however in the context of Canada we have let ourselves go. Discipline is low, fitness is low, and our leadership is too weak to do anything about it. We are more concerned about individuals being individuals than creating a team and working as such. I am happy I am out because I watched us devolve from a somewhat serious force at the end of Afghanistan to whatever we are today.

 

[FSTO]

^^
I’m poking a bit of fun at your argument.
There are a lot of folks, not just in the military could lose a few lbs and we should be more stringent on maintenance of our standards.
But there are a lot of instances when we interact with civilians where full parade dress is too much but field combats is not appropriate.
NECU is authorized at C-Navy but you are always able to wear a higher level. I notice that Topshee rarely interacts with civilians (especially influential ones) wearing NECU.

 

[markppcli]

The reality is that women can fit in clothes made for men, men can't fit in clothes made for women.

I remember Star Trek The Next Generation tried to come up with a gender neutral dress that male actors would wear. I don't think it lasted past the first season. I could just see all the applications for religious exceptions if the CAF tried that.

In the way that a ten year old could wear their dad’s suit. Not really the image we want to project - which is the entire point of service dress.

 

[Halifax Tar]

^^
I’m poking a bit of fun at your argument.
There are a lot of folks, not just in the military could lose a few lbs and we should be more stringent on maintenance of our standards.
But there are a lot of instances when we interact with civilians where full parade dress is too much but field combats is not appropriate.
NECU is authorized at C-Navy but you are always able to wear a higher level. I notice that Topshee rarely interacts with civilians (especially influential ones) wearing NECU.

There is a time for formal/ceremonial dress and there is a time for work dress. CRCN has a lot of formal/ceremonial duties.

 

[Furniture]

I watched a 380lbs alcoholic pass the force test once, no way he should have stayed in yet nothing was done.

So you watched someone pass the test, but still wanted them removed?

Canada we have let ourselves go. Discipline is low, fitness is low, and our leadership is too weak to do anything about it. We are more concerned about individuals being individuals than creating a team and working as such. I am happy I am out because I watched us devolve from a somewhat serious force at the end of Afghanistan to whatever we are today.

The increased number of failures of the FORCE test when it was initially released kinda indicates that the standard was raised for some.

I watched people who "exempted" the EXPRES test struggle and fail the BFT, and watched people who could crush the BFT fail the EXPRES test.

My experience is that people who love to shit on fitness standards tend to be people who love fitness, or have a very specific vision of what a "proper" CAF members looks like. It often has little to do with people's ability to do the job.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So you watched someone pass the test, but still wanted them removed?

The increased number of failures of the FORCE test when it was initially released kinda indicates that the standard was raised for some.

I watched people who "exempted" the EXPRES test struggle and fail the BFT, and watched people who could crush the BFT fail the EXPRES test.

My experience is that people who love to shit on fitness standards tend to be people who love fitness, or have a very specific vision of what a "proper" CAF members looks like. It often has little to do with people's ability to do the job.

I've had experiences with two CAF members who were absolutely addicted to long distance running. And if they weren't able to get their Ks in they would throw a fit, truly become negative and cancerous.

They were the ones who struggled terribly, and ended up getting out; after the FORCE Test came out.

 

[Eaglelord17]

So you watched someone pass the test, but still wanted them removed?

The increased number of failures of the FORCE test when it was initially released kinda indicates that the standard was raised for some.

I watched people who "exempted" the EXPRES test struggle and fail the BFT, and watched people who could crush the BFT fail the EXPRES test.

My experience is that people who love to shit on fitness standards tend to be people who love fitness, or have a very specific vision of what a "proper" CAF members looks like. It often has little to do with people's ability to do the job.

That test is way to low a standard. Really it is a joke, I purposely walked most of it to show how low a standard it is (and I am not particularly fit myself).

Yes that 380lbs alcoholic should have been removed, could barely pass that test, couldn’t do a lot of the job (as they were a stoker and couldn’t fit in many of the spaces), and was overall a horrible person to deal with. The fact that they could pass the test indicates how low a bar it is.

We also have highschoolers fail the force test, doesn’t mean it is a high standard, rather how unfit we are as a society, which isn’t good for any of us (increased health problems, increased risk of injury, unable to physically do the job, etc.).

 

[dapaterson]

The test exists to prove that an individual meets U of S.

That's all it does.

SOF and firefighters have managed to figure out fitness standards. That other organisations have not is on them.

 

[markppcli]

I for one am proud that the thread for service dress has bucked the army.ca trend and gone away from talking about dress and isn’t talking about a reserve restructure.

 

[Kilted]

In the way that a ten year old could wear their dad’s suit. Not really the image we want to project - which is the entire point of service dress.

I always thought that the CAF was ok with putting women in a baggy uniform for the same reason that Amish women dress the way they do.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I always thought that the CAF was ok with putting women in a baggy uniform for the same reason that Amish women dress the way they do.

To be fair, the previous uniform cuts were not great for most men, either.

 

[markppcli]

I always thought that the CAF was ok with putting women in a baggy uniform for the same reason that Amish women dress the way they do.

Systemic oppression of women masquerading as protection?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Systemic oppression of women masquerading as protection?

No. Just no conscious thought as to how the uniform cut would actually work in the real world.

 

[markppcli]

No. Just no conscious thought as to how the uniform cut would actually work in the real world.

I was more joking about the Amish comparison