Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

[Altair]

This is an issue that is too complex to fit into a this or that category and you both are making valid points. Things have changed a lot and there is lots of blame to go around. Fact: there are no jobs for those under 19 in any retail outlet that sells either liquor or tobacco by government fiat. Fact there are no jobs for white kids in government summer employment until the immigrant, first nation and alphabet group are taken care of. Those two account for a lot of summer employment and the later bleeds over into adult ages. Fact: there are few jobs pumping gas as self-serve has replaced many of them. Automation has eliminated car washes. Baby sitting now requires certification. Stores such as Jack Frasers, Blanches, and Reitman's to list just a few used to employ numerous kids. Their replacements, the box stores still do. But a single Walmart that employs a dozen students has replaced upwards of a dozen smaller stores that each would employ 2 or 3 so opportunities disappeared there. Fast food outlets have discovered the benefits of the temporary off-shore workers programmes. Did I miss anything?
I deliberately left agriculture off that last one because we have produced a generation that doesn't understand the meaning of the word work. There were 15 positions available at the greenhouses where my granddaughter found work. They were only able to staff 5. The others went to the children of landed immigrants. At least one of them I know works 7 to 12 in one greenhouse and then goes up the highway to a second where she works from 1 to 8. That's two jobs for an 18 year old, both at minimum wage.
I have almost an acre of grass to cut. I have never had a student place a note in my mailbox or knock on the door to ask if I would employ them to maintain my lawn. Student painters is now big business so no volunteers in that category either.
The responsibility for those last items rests with the parent. Perhaps because neither of them were home in the evening until after 5 or 6 they have never insisted that their children share in the household responsibilities. They haven't insisted that they get out of the house and look for work.
On another note, what is wrong with working two jobs? I did and I am pretty sure that many of you did as well. I had my career sure but starting pay is never that great and a newbie generally has huge expenses. That first car, an apartment, wardrobe etc. But all of us survived, most of us I would say have prospered or at the very least are more than getting by.
So there are lots of places to lay the blame. None of us have the whole picture and from what I have read here, known of you are wrong. My 2 cents

I agree with most of your post. Most. But then there is that one nugget...

On another note, what is wrong with working two jobs? I did and I am pretty sure that many of you did as well. I had my career sure but starting pay is never that great and a newbie generally has huge expenses. That first car, an apartment, wardrobe etc. But all of us survived, most of us I would say have prospered or at the very least are more than getting by.

I find it hard to tell a young person who cannot find one job that the solution is to find two jobs.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Altair: here are Statistics

Brad Sallows: I don't trust them

No, I trust them. I'm not questioning whether the numbers accurately reflect the category. I absolutely deprecate the value of the category. Teenagers who almost entirely ought to be attending school and working part-time at most and are not legally responsible for themselves in many respects should not be lumped in with adults. What useful point do you think you can make with a number that mixes the part-time employment of legal children with the full-time employment of legal adults?

 

[YZT580]

I agree with most of your post. Most. But then there is that one nugget...


I find it hard to tell a young person who cannot find one job that the solution is to find two jobs.

Tell him to create his own and then add to it. I am not the only one with long grass and a cane. I am talking students now. As for graduates, it is difficult I know to tell a person that has just completed a very expensive education that everything he took is good information but useless. In the meantime, every transport I see has Drivers Wanted on the barn doors. There are lots of jobs available just not too many executive starting roles. I love the words to Working at the Car Wash Blues. They describe the dilemma of many except that the writer did take the job at the car wash.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I agree, the age range is too broad in this case. Better representation would be 15-22, add the 23-24 into the next age bracket.
Would love to listen to the explanation as to why ages 23 and 24 need to be included with a kid in grade 10 looking for 10-12 hours a week at McD's.

Absolute separation between in-school and out (K-12) is required. I can guess that unemployment is strongly affected by the transition from one to the other. I'm not sure what purpose is served by mixing them except to use the (probable) higher unemployment of one group to create an illusion of what the other group's true unemployment is (ie. to misdirect in the service of some political agenda).

 

[Brad Sallows]

Would 18/19 to 24 or maybe 26 be better? Sure.

but we get the statistics we get. And the statistics we get show that it's not the fault of young Canadians. There are just not as many jobs out there, not as many entry level positions and not as many people willing to hire a young person.

By definition you can't know what the circumstances of young post-K-12 adults are from the number you gave. The number given could be skewed by very high unemployment among school-attending teens.

 

[Altair]

Tell him to create his own and then add to it. I am not the only one with long grass and a cane. I am talking students now. As for graduates, it is difficult I know to tell a person that has just completed a very expensive education that everything he took is good information but useless. In the meantime, every transport I see has Drivers Wanted on the barn doors. There are lots of jobs available just not too many executive starting roles. I love the words to Working at the Car Wash Blues. They describe the dilemma of many except that the writer did take the job at the car wash.

Okay. I'm a young person.

I want to mow your yard. But you're out of my way. Okay, get on the bus or uber. You tell me to bring my own equipment...Okay, now I need a lift. I may or may not have a car. Now i'm lugging lawn cutting equipment across town, from place to place. do this for 2-3 weeks and all the nearby low hanging fruit is taken. What then? And does every young person do this? Saturate the market much?

Not to mention not every young person is in the shape to be working outdoors across town. Sure some are, not all are.

The go make your own work is a noble idea, it's just not practical as a systemic solution.

 

[Altair]

No, I trust them. I'm not questioning whether the numbers accurately reflect the category. I absolutely deprecate the value of the category. Teenagers who almost entirely ought to be attending school and working part-time at most and are not legally responsible for themselves in many respects should not be lumped in with adults. What useful point do you think you can make with a number that mixes the part-time employment of legal children with the full-time employment of legal adults?

I'm not a statistician. I don't make the categories. Some great idea fairy decided that youth unemployment is 15-24.

But rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater, maybe gleam what you can from the statistics we have to go off of?

Again, all you're bring to the conversation is "I feel" or "I suspect". What do you base this on? What data? A gut feeling?

It's frustrating to have these conversations of I feel something thus it's fact.

 

[YZT580]

Okay. I'm a young person.

I want to mow your yard. But you're out of my way. Okay, get on the bus or uber. You tell me to bring my own equipment...Okay, now I need a lift. I may or may not have a car. Now i'm lugging lawn cutting equipment across town, from place to place. do this for 2-3 weeks and all the nearby low hanging fruit is taken. What then? And does every young person do this? Saturate the market much?

Not to mention not every young person is in the shape to be working outdoors across town. Sure some are, not all are.

The go make your own work is a noble idea, it's just not practical as a systemic solution.

strawman arguments. The point is there are options that don't involve just throwing your hands up in despair and saying what's the use before asking for MAID clearance because there is no point in going on. As I have said before; You are definitely a glass half empty kind of guy

 

[Altair]

strawman arguments. The point is there are options that don't involve just throwing your hands up in despair and saying what's the use before asking for MAID clearance because there is no point in going on. As I have said before; You are definitely a glass half empty kind of guy

Your solution to youth unemployment being work two jobs or make your own work is akin to let them eat cake.

Sorry if that's glass half empty, but your "solution" isn't reasonable by any metric.

Don't believe me, go on reddit, suggest that on any subreddit with young people and prepare to be laughed out the room.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I'm not a statistician. I don't make the categories. Some great idea fairy decided that youth unemployment is 15-24.

But rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater, maybe gleam what you can from the statistics we have to go off of?

Again, all you're bring to the conversation is "I feel" or "I suspect". What do you base this on? What data? A gut feeling?

It's frustrating to have these conversations of I feel something thus it's fact.

Supposedly StatsCan is following this guideline.

"The 15 to 24 age range used by Statistics Canada is the global standard set by the International Labour Organization (ILO) to specifically measure the transition of individuals from full-time education into the workforce."

"However, because the 15-24 bracket lumps together high-schoolers looking for part-time work with university graduates starting their careers, economists often break it down further (e.g., separating 15-19 from 20-24) to get a clearer picture of the job market"

The range of 15-19 and 20-24 is alot more logical and its a break (especially under the old 'Grade 13 era') of those in high school and those out of high school.

 

[Altair]

Supposedly StatsCan is following this guideline.

"The 15 to 24 age range used by Statistics Canada is the global standard set by the International Labour Organization (ILO) to specifically measure the transition of individuals from full-time education into the workforce."

"However, because the 15-24 bracket lumps together high-schoolers looking for part-time work with university graduates starting their careers, economists often break it down further (e.g., separating 15-19 from 20-24) to get a clearer picture of the job market"

The range of 15-19 and 20-24 is alot more logical and its a break (especially under the old 'Grade 13 era') of those in high school and those out of high school.

is there anywhere showing the 20-24 age group unemployment levels? Most recent thing I can find is from september 2025, at 11.3 percent, still high, but not exactly recent.

 

[Blackadder1916]

is there anywhere showing the 20-24 age group unemployment levels? Most recent thing I can find is from september 2025, at 11.3 percent, still high, but not exactly recent.

Students and other persons aged 15 to 24 by detailed age group, unadjusted for seasonality

none

www150.statcan.gc.ca

 

[Brad Sallows]

I'm not a statistician. I don't make the categories. Some great idea fairy decided that youth unemployment is 15-24.

Whatever it is they imagine it demonstrates, it doesn't support the point you want to make.

But rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater, maybe gleam what you can from the statistics we have to go off of?

Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[Altair]

Students and other persons aged 15 to 24 by detailed age group, unadjusted for seasonality

none

www150.statcan.gc.ca

13.3 percent, thanks.

@Brad Sallows so a little lower than under 15-19 year olds (18 percent). Still much higher than the overall unemployment rate. Satisfied?

 

[Brad Sallows]

13.3 percent, thanks.

@Brad Sallows so largely in line with the under 15-19 as well. Satisfied?

"Students 20 to 24 years" are still students, and presumably most are full-time occupied with being students.

"Other persons aged 15 to 24". Nope.

 

[Altair]

"Students 20 to 24 years" are still students, and presumably most are full-time occupied with being students.

"Other persons aged 15 to 24". Nope.

What do you want other than your personal feelings?

 

[Halifax Tar]

What do you want other than your personal feelings?

Agree with him, he wants to be right.

 

[Brad Sallows]

What do you want other than your personal feelings?

If we're going to bitch about unemployment among the young, it has to be a reasonably informed bitch.

Mixing high school age students, post-secondary students, and adult non-students into one lump doesn't inform us as to the unemployment faced by each of those distinct groups. One is underage, two are (or should be) full-time students, and only one is neither underage nor occupied by full-time studies (and thus in a position for which it's reasonable to expect them to work to support themselves, however they choose to live).

High unemployment among school age students seeking part-time work isn't a calamity. High unemployment among post-secondary students seeking part-time work is a bit more difficult since they have to pay their own way, but still isn't a calamity - it's possible to get loans for being a student, but considerably harder to get loans for being an unemployed idle adult. (Anyone who succeeds, let me know.)

Why should anyone accept a claim about apples supported by a number that is clearly a mix of apples, oranges, and pears?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Agree with him, he wants to be right.

Naw. I just want to know whether I should care about this plight facing young people. If the best that can be done is to decorate the landscape with data polluted by the prospects of teenagers, I just don't care. When people care enough about their causes to provide good data, I might care about their causes. Over to them.

 

[Altair]

If we're going to bitch about unemployment among the young, it has to be a reasonably informed bitch.

Mixing high school age students, post-secondary students, and adult non-students into one lump doesn't inform us as to the unemployment faced by each of those distinct groups. One is underage, two are (or should be) full-time students, and only one is neither underage nor occupied by full-time studies (and thus in a position for which it's reasonable to expect them to work to support themselves, however they choose to live).

High unemployment among school age students seeking part-time work isn't a calamity. High unemployment among post-secondary students seeking part-time work is a bit more difficult since they have to pay their own way, but still isn't a calamity - it's possible to get loans for being a student, but considerably harder to get loans for being an unemployed idle adult. (Anyone who succeeds, let me know.)

Why should anyone accept a claim about apples supported by a number that is clearly a mix of apples, oranges, and pears?

How about this. When you find a scrape of data pointing towards your hypothesis that young people are somehow not working as hard, or are as you put it," seeking to find the job they want to do for the amount of money they need for the lifestyle they want to live", feel free to share it with the class.

Otherwise...