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Milnet.ca => Communications & Electronics => Topic started by: TheWildOne on July 13, 2007, 09:09:09

Title: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: TheWildOne on July 13, 2007, 09:09:09
I've heard a rumor that 291 comm rsch will change from signal to Intel. Usually i don't pay attention to rumors but I've heard it from multiple sources. I even saw that 291 courses were moved from  CFSCE to CFSMI. Anyone with information about that?  ???



"Edit" shown is in error: no change made - Loachman.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: TheWildOne on July 13, 2007, 11:07:47
Thank you David for the information. I was going to ask which badge they are going to wear but I've got my answer now.
 :D
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: PuckChaser on July 13, 2007, 13:09:32
The 291 courses have always been run at the building which you mentioned, but CFSMI just moved in 2 years ago to take advantage of the infrastructure the 291 world built in to teach higher level stuff. I built their offices 2 years ago, gotta love Corcan furniture.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: niceasdrhuxtable on July 13, 2007, 15:16:37
The link between 291 and the signals branch was always tenuous at best which was further exacerbated by them being so far removed from the regular signals community. I think this is a good move for the trade
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Retired AF Guy on July 13, 2007, 16:49:28
The 291 courses have always been run at the building which you mentioned, but CFSMI just moved in 2 years ago to take advantage of the infrastructure the 291 world built in to teach higher level stuff. I built their offices 2 years ago, gotta love Corcan furniture.

Actually, CFSMI has been there for longer than 2 years. It was my last posting and I was posted in August 2004. I can't remember when CFSMI moved from Borden to Kingston, but it was at least four-five years prior to my posting (so around 1999 or so).

As for the comm rsch branch following under the intelligence branch there has been talk about this for the last 15 years or so (if not more). It would only make sense. If you look the US and UK military you will find that their comm rsch equivalents fall under the intelligence not communications branch's. 
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: TheWildOne on July 13, 2007, 17:01:18
I'm going for my QL3 in sept... On the original course list it was under CFSCE but that was change last week for CFSMI so i guess the change will occur soon.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: spook on July 15, 2007, 18:53:03
First off, welcome to the 291 world, I hope you enjoy it as much as I have over the last 20 some odd years. As has been mentioned there has been talk/speculation of a Communication Research, Intelligence operator merger for many years and I agree it does make some sense although as of my most recent discussion with the powers to be any talk of a merger still remains in the discussion phase. I am curious however as to weather or not the administration of the 291 school in Kingston has moved from CFSCE to CFSMI as you have implied. Its the first I've heard of it, (which certainly doesn't mean its not happening). Anyone with reliable info on that??
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Ex-fusilier on July 16, 2007, 00:50:42
That's a good question.  Is Comm Rsch Tp still part of CFSCE B Sqn for administrative reasons?  It would certainly be a big change for CFSMI, as they're probably not used to having that amount of students being farmed through at one time.  Interesting to see how this turns out........
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Bintheredunthat-Muzzled on July 16, 2007, 11:35:46
I heard that 291 was moving away from CFSCE because the school (CFSCE) belonged to the Army now and 291 wanted no Army affiliation - ok not really, just an inside dig from a 215 to a 291.   ;D

Insert all your spec pay bragging comments below - hardy har har.

Bin
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: EW on October 10, 2007, 00:23:33
Recently retired Comm Rsch MWO.  Some historical background on how the schools are situated.  The compound currently used by CFSMI is also used by CFSCE to conduct the training for the Comm Rsch trade.  The building, or buildings if you consider the annex a seperate structure, were used strickly for Comm Rsch training for over 20 years.

The building was officially opened in the early 70's for the training of Comm Rsch trade.  It was called the Gloucester Building, named after HMCS Gloucester where the RCN did all their intercept operator (radioman special) trades training prior to integration, and the creation of the Comm Rsch operator.  It remained that way until the mid-nineties when the Int NCM/Officers separated from the school of Security and Intelligence in Borden.  The Int Ops went from sharing a compound with the MP's in Borden, to sharing a compound with Comm Rsch in Kingston - although they were two distinctive schools.  Since the FRP of the mid-nineties had put a freeze on QL3 courses for Comm Rsch (which led to a long period of no QL5's) there was an abundance of space for the Ints to use.  So the Int Ops went from co-habitating with Meat Heads to put up with Rubber Heads.

Comm Rsch has gone through a number of changes in the past 10 years.  Most of them I believe for the better.  The trade is administered by the Army now.   Recruiting is good, and deployments are through the roof.  Mind you with such a high deployment tempo, it is pretty hard to build the structure for the future when a number of the WO and Snr NCOs have to deploy on each and every roto, and you only have a relatively small pool of qualified soldiers to draw from - mind you that 'qualified' pool is getting bigger every year.

The U.S. army operators who do this job are all badged in the Military Intelligence Branch.  They are typically the MOS 98 series (98C, 98K, etc).  The same is not necessarily true of our Commonwealth brethren.  In the UK its 14 Signals Regt in Wales, and for the Aussies it is 7 Signals Regt in Queensland.  Both are dedicated solely to collecting intelligence.  Both are Signals units with both Sigs and Int personnel.

Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Breacher41 on October 10, 2007, 00:30:39
I've heard a rumor that 291 comm rsch will change from signal to Intelligence.

INTELLIGENCE INTELLIGENCE INTELLIGENCE!!!!!!!!!


NOT INTEL!!!!!!!!!!

WE DO NOT HAVE INTEL!!!!

WE HAVE INTELLIGENCE!!!

Rant off!

Sorry I can't stand that...
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: aesop081 on October 10, 2007, 00:59:02
....or just plain "INT"

But not intel
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: scoutfinch on October 10, 2007, 16:46:21
"Didja get any good INTEL from that RECON you just did"

Hahahahaha.... that must just about drive you over the edge, MedTech!!! >:D

(I can pull your chain on this one because the word RECON is like nails on a chalkboard to me!)

Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Breacher41 on October 10, 2007, 16:48:09
"Didja get any good INTEL from that RECON you just did"
Hahahahaha.... that must just about drive you over the edge, MedTech!!! >:D
(I can pull your chain on this one because the word RECON is like nails on a chalkboard to me!)

Hahaha, I feel bad hijiacking the thread though. Bud did I ever mention that Intel is the processor that goes into your PCs?
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Retired AF Guy on October 14, 2007, 12:02:42
INTELLIGENCE INTELLIGENCE INTELLIGENCE!!!!!!!!!


NOT INTEL!!!!!!!!!!

WE DO NOT HAVE INTEL!!!!

WE HAVE INTELLIGENCE!!!

Rant off!

Sorry I can't stand that...

Hate to break this to you, but we use both Int or Intel in the CF. It just depends on which element  you belong to. In the army its int; in the air force its intel. Not sure what term the navy uses.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: CallOfDuty on October 14, 2007, 12:24:52
  Hey guys.....what percentage of the trade is made up of Navy pers.?
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: niceasdrhuxtable on October 14, 2007, 13:06:06
Not many. I'd say maybe 10% as a rough estimate.

Your element has no bearing on your job/career opportunities however so it's largely moot.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: aesop081 on October 14, 2007, 13:10:31
in the air force its intel. Not sure what term the navy uses.

Well being an AF guy myself, i realy hate to equaly break it to you that every wing i have been to says "Wing INT" on the door......the guys at the start say "Welcome to your INT breif"..........even call themselves INT Op........
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Loachman on October 14, 2007, 13:58:46
It's "Int" in Tac Hel.

"Intel" is a US term, like "recon" instead of "recce", "zee" in place of "zed", and "flight suit" instead of "flying suit"..
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: MCG on October 14, 2007, 14:36:09
I recall a Sigs LCol commenting (early this year) on an idea to merge the int & sigs branches into a common "command support" branch.  I don't know if there is (or ever was) any momentum behind this idea.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: EW on October 14, 2007, 15:08:49
Not many. I'd say maybe 10% as a rough estimate.

Your element has no bearing on your job/career opportunities however so it's largely moot.

Environmental assignment used to be 33.3 % for each element, but that changed a few years ago.  I can't remember the exact percentages last year, but the goal was to make the majority of the trade Army, followed by Navy (the goal is for more than 10%, but not as high as the Army), and a shrinking number of air force uniforms.  As you state they are just uniforms, the training, and employment is the exact same until you arrive at station.  After that the trades training remains the same for all personnel, but the environment training depends on what situation you find yourself supporting.  However, the uniform has NO bearing on that employment.  Glad to say that in the past few years a few senior NCO's have been able to switch environmental uniforms.  We had a WO in an airforce uniform who had only been employed in Army operations, and served for almost 10 consecutive years at 2 EW Sqn in Kingston, and deployed to Bosnia and Afghanistan.  There was also a Sgt in the trade who got switched over to PO2, only fitting since he had numerous CDSE deployments and spent a decent stint in Halifax, but had never even paraded with a field unit, nevertheless been deployed with one. 

I still remember when 2 EW Sqn belonged to 1CDHSR in Kingston, and the Regiment's Sgt-Major used to love his parades.  There was the entire Sigs Regiment in tans during the summer, and greens during the rest of the year ..... except for 2 EW Sqn.  He used to refer to us as 'rainbow Squadron.'   ;D 

Not so much an issue now, with CADPATs being the dress for the vast majority of parades.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: CallOfDuty on October 15, 2007, 08:38:50
   Does anyone know if the trade is open right now for recruiting?  As well...how often do they run the QL3?
Thanks again
C.O.D.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Ex-fusilier on October 15, 2007, 19:50:12
Last I heard we're still hiring - best to ask the recruiting center though.  QL3's are going fast and furious these days I think. 
Title: 291 to the INT's
Post by: Roy~Dawg on July 04, 2008, 15:20:17
July 4th 2008

291 Trade is C&E Branch

CFSCE runs 291 courses in  2 SQN Ftp

INTs work out of the Annex of that building. (Tenants)

Word since town meeting with two Colonels blowing hot air? F.A.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Greymatters on July 06, 2008, 14:14:00
Hate to break this to you, but we use both Int or Intel in the CF. It just depends on which element  you belong to. In the army its int; in the air force its intel. Not sure what term the navy uses. 

BS.

The air force used 'Int'.  It might depend more on what unit within the air force you were in...
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Breacher41 on July 06, 2008, 16:14:12
BS. INT is a Purple trade. It is INT no matter what element you're in.
Title: Re: 291 changes from signal to intel????
Post by: Retired AF Guy on July 06, 2008, 19:53:36
BS. INT is a Purple trade. It is INT no matter what element you're in.

No longer. As of about 5 years ago they split the trade into separate elements. During the QL-5A/officerrs course the first couple of months yis spent learning those basic int (or intel) principles that apply to all three elements (int cycle, security, int community, etc). After that, the students are split up into their separate elements and learn those principles that apply to those elements. Yes, there are some of the older folks who have been cross-trained and are posted based on their experience, but the new folks are posted based on the colour of their uniform.

Note: My comment is based on the status when I retired three years ago. I don't know what the current statre of affairs are.

As for the int/intel controversy: when I was in the army we were called "int."' When I was posted to Cold Lake it was "intel." When I was posted overseas it was for the most part intel. In other postings (NDHQ) either/or.