Author Topic: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???  (Read 9132 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Daysofyore

  • Guest
  • *
  • 20
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1
MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« on: October 14, 2015, 17:48:21 »
Most people are by now aware of the Multi-Engine Utility Flight (MEUF) being operated out of 8Wg Trenton.  During a recent conversation with some HHQ folks the discussion turned to whether or not the MEUF concept had proven itself sufficiently and whether it was time to expand the concept to a Wing Utility Flight (WUF) as had been originally envisioned.

Personally I would argue that indeed the MEUF concept has proven itself and should be expanded upon past it's current form.  When first envisioned, the MEUF was seen as a way in which junior pilots awaiting OTU training could be gainfully employed while providing utility services to the CF.  Envisioned as 15-20 twin engine aircraft (like the King Air 200 currently used or the even more versatile King Air 350er (https://www.beechcraft.com/special_missions/utility_transport.aspx)) strategically based at major RCAF Wings (19Wg Comox, 17Wg Winnipeg, 8Wg Trenton, and 14Wg Greenwood) providing medium utility and transport functions to the CF.  (RCN, RCAF, Army)

What are the opinions of the members here?  Should the MEUF be expanded into a WUF concept or should it be scrapped altogether?  I for one believe that the WUF concept has the potential to solve or at least relieve many problems currently being faced within the RCAF pilot community.  I envision the WUF being a military version of civilian regional carriers where junior pilots can cut their teeth before moving onto the mainline carriers, or in the RCAF this would mean the more operationally complex communities.  (and NOT a flying club for senior staff officers to maintain their aircrew allowance and "get out of the office".  With all due respect sir, YFR has been cut and the kids need the time.  Your time has past)

The floor is open for discussion.

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 218,382
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,479
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2015, 18:12:45 »
(and NOT a flying club for senior staff officers to maintain their aircrew allowance and "get out of the office".  With all due respect sir, YFR has been cut and the kids need the time.  Your time has past)

Not a flying club for kids to maintain their aircrew allowance and "get out of the office".  With all due respect son, YFR has been cut and those flying operational aircraft need the time.  Your time hasn't come yet.

Fifteen to twenty? Seriously? That's our biggest need?

(Behind important things like retrogressive rank braid/badges and buttons.)

I can think of loads of things that should be put w - a - y ahead of any of this.

Online Ostrozac

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 32,370
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 720
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2015, 18:21:16 »
What kind of cargo and passengers do they move? Is this a "better than UPS" way to move serialized kit like radios and STANO around the country and a "better than Bearskin" way to haul Ranger Instructors with their weapons and ammo? Or do they move Generals to parades? I honestly don't know those details.

Hard to talk about a pickup truck without talking about the cargo.

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 214,675
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,168
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2015, 22:51:38 »
...The floor is open for discussion.

Solution looking for a problem.

Pipeliners are going straight to front-line aircraft, new modern aircraft and moving onwards.  Why mess around on a small prop-job working the local area to "gain experience?"  Why not just continue getting experience post-wings on operational aircraft, in many cases augmented by state-of-the-art simulation to optimize experience? 

???


Online PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 923,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,203
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2015, 23:10:38 »
I'm still wondering what operational purpose these small twin-prop planes have? If its to hold pilots over until they get onto a proper training unit, is the CAF recruiting too many pilots for the system to handle?

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 218,382
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,479
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2015, 08:47:46 »
Hmmm...

Register with a blank profile, make a post pushing an unnecessary product (including a link), log off and not come back.

Beechcraft employee/dealer looking to drum up some business via free advertising?

Offline Chris Pook

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 208,605
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,758
  • Wha daur say Mass in ma lug!
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2015, 08:54:39 »
I'm sure the response would have been a lot different had he proposed something like, oh.... I don't know.....The Twin Otter?    >:D ;D

Its OK - I'm going hands up on this one already.  :nod: :surrender:
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Ditch

  • Established 1998
  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 28,182
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,413
  • I routinely step in it, but like conflict...
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2015, 11:55:10 »
Here's a bit of credibility to add to this thread.

MEUF is tasked daily to support RCAF movements.  It is not just a place for keeping new winged grads (NWGs) employed.  Most pilots that fly that thing are now those in ground tours at YTR and this is what keeps them sane and committed to sticking it out for another couple years.

MEUF provides the gap in our Challenger fleet - inter-Canada transport of VIPs and selected personnel can now be achieved via a much more fiscally responsible method.  Cheaper than flying Air Canada out of Pearson.

IMHO - a WUF would be an excellent idea - cheap and reliable utility transport of personnel and equipment from Point A to B.

Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 218,382
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,479
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2015, 14:02:16 »
Most pilots that fly that thing are now those in ground tours at YTR and this is what keeps them sane and committed to sticking it out for another couple years.

Buy three helicopters to park in Kingston for those in ground tours to keep them sane and committed to sticking it out for another couple of years.

Not that anybody in Kingston is complaining, at all, or lacks commitment or sanity.

Or has much free time to go joyriding.

What's so special about people/hard about life in Trenton?

If there is a valid case to be made, it should be made - and the priority should be stated honestly. That priority should fall behind real operational needs.

Other environmental/operational commands seem to get by without their own little fleets. Why should one be special?

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 214,675
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,168
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2015, 17:22:45 »
Here's a bit of credibility to add to this thread.

MEUF is tasked daily to support RCAF movements.  It is not just a place for keeping new winged grads (NWGs) employed.  Most pilots that fly that thing are now those in ground tours at YTR and this is what keeps them sane and committed to sticking it out for another couple years.

MEUF provides the gap in our Challenger fleet - inter-Canada transport of VIPs and selected personnel can now be achieved via a much more fiscally responsible method.  Cheaper than flying Air Canada out of Pearson.

IMHO - a WUF would be an excellent idea - cheap and reliable utility transport of personnel and equipment from Point A to B.

So who's doing the "ground tour" guy's job while he's out flying operational pers transport missions?

Where is Comd RCAF's stated transport deficiency?

When do we get not only multi-engine, but also rotary-wing util fleets based out of Rockliffe Flying Club to support NDHQ VIP pers movements?

 ???

Offline Privateer

    Looking for the bubble.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Full Member
  • *
  • 19,230
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 354
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2015, 17:37:55 »


When do we get not only multi-engine, but also rotary-wing util fleets based out of Rockliffe Flying Club to support NDHQ VIP pers movements?

 ???

I think that service is already provided by the Sea Kings... ask Peter MacKay.

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 218,382
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,479
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2015, 18:54:03 »
That was a Cormorant, and it didn't come from anywhere near Ottawa.

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 182,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,384
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2015, 19:01:56 »
IMHO - a WUF would be an excellent idea - cheap and reliable utility transport of personnel and equipment from Point A to B.

A WUF in 19 Wg would probably blow through its YFR in 6 months flying Comox guys to/from Greenwood for all of their quals, deployment courses, etc.

I'd guess the same for 12 Wg.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,915
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,604
  • Crewman
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2015, 19:32:39 »
Do we have to knock down the buildings that went up blocking Shearwater runways and bring back Scare Service Air to maintain three flights cross country in each direction (6 total) weekly?
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 214,675
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,168
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2015, 19:34:45 »
Do we have to knock down the buildings that went up blocking Shearwater runways and bring back Scare Service Air to maintain three flights cross country in each direction (6 total) weekly?

Don't forget half of 1 CMBG...  :nod:

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 182,840
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,384
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2015, 19:36:12 »
Do we have to knock down the buildings that went up blocking Shearwater runways and bring back Scare Service Air to maintain three flights cross country in each direction (6 total) weekly?

[wishful thinking]

And relocate all units now currently in Greenwood?   >:D

[/wishful thinking]
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."