Topic: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Colin P]

Eurofighter is $136M CAD per aircraft. Sounds like a great deal....

Not being Lockheed or Boeing = Priceless

[Dimsum]

Not being Lockheed or Boeing = Priceless

Not if major repairs end up needing to be done in Europe.  That was one of the major contract issues with the Aussies when they got the Tiger ARH.  I mean there were other issues too, hence why they're trying to replace them 20 years after they bought them.

[MarkOttawa]

Got to keep those Canadian jobs as long as possible--until we get Bombardier jobs at silly price for Eurofighter?

Canada to keep paying for F-35 development during fighter-jet competition

A senior official at the Department of National Defence says Canada will remain a member of the F-35 stealth fighter program until the government knows which jet it plans to buy to replace Canada’s aging CF-18s.

That means Canada will continue to pay tens of millions of dollars over the next couple of years to help pay for development of the fighter jet even though it may end up buying something else.

DND’s head of procurement, Patrick Finn, says staying on as one of nine partner countries makes sense so Canada can compete for billions of dollars in contracts associated with the F-35...

The Trudeau Liberals are scheduled to launch a competition to pick a new fighter jet this spring, a winner won’t be identified for several more years [supposedly 2022 for contract award!!!].

Canada has so far invested roughly half-a-billion dollars in the F-35 over the past 20 years, even as successive federal governments have wrestled with whether to buy the plane or not.
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/canada-to-keep-paying-for-f-35-development-during-fighter-jet-competition

Mark
Ottawa

[HB_Pencil]

Got to keep those Canadian jobs as long as possible--until we get Bombardier jobs at silly price for Eurofighter?

Mark
Ottawa

No, this is potentially a huge development in the project... there was a lot of major uncertainty going on, and this may be the first piece of good news in awhile.

[milnews.ca]

Got to keep those Canadian jobs as long as possible--until we get Bombardier jobs at silly price for Eurofighter?

Canada to keep paying for F-35 development during fighter-jet competition

A senior official at the Department of National Defence says Canada will remain a member of the F-35 stealth fighter program until the government knows which jet it plans to buy to replace Canada’s aging CF-18s.  ...

Taking this story a step further here ...

Canada is being forced to shoulder a bigger share of the costs of developing F-35 fighter jets even though it has not decided whether it will actually buy any.

Canada is one of nine partner countries in the F-35 project, each of which is required to cover a portion of the stealth fighter's multibillion-dollar development costs to stay at the table.

Each country pays based on the number of F-35s it's expecting to buy. Canada has pitched in more than half-a-billion dollars over the last 20 years, including $54 million last year.

But that amount was based on the Stephen Harper government's plan to buy 65 new fighter jets to replace Canada's aging CF-18s, which the Trudeau government has since officially increased to 88.

Even though Canada has not committed that those 88 jets will be F-35s, the Department of National Defence says that change means it will have to pay more to remain a partner — including about $72 million this year.

"Canada's costs under the F-35 (partnership agreement) are based on an intended fleet size," Defence Department spokeswoman Ashley Lemire said in an email.

"Canada changed its fleet size within the F-35 (agreement) from 65 to 88 aircraft to align with government decisions on the size of the intended permanent fighter fleet to be acquired through competition and the payment increased accordingly." ...

[Colin P]

LOL the irony....

[daftandbarmy]

Taking this story a step further here ...

Don't worry, the Trudeau spin doctors will be along in just a moment to make it sound like 'everything's going to be alright.' 



“You know, that might be the answer – to act boastfully about something we ought to be ashamed of. That’s a trick that never seems to fail.”

―  Joseph Heller,  Catch-22

[suffolkowner]

The original F-35 procurement numbers I saw had Canada ordering 80, so not that much of a difference. 65 was just the smallest number that could be gotten away with. I'm sure if our NORAD obligation was less than 36 our "order" would have been less than 65 as well

[MarkOttawa]

Meanwhile Finland (population 5.5 million, much less geography than Canada) is planning to buy 64 new fighters--from the usual suspects:

Industry bids are in for Finland’s $13 billion fighter race

Finland’s HX-FP multirole fighter replacement program has advanced to the next stage as five aircraft manufacturers have tendered their proposals to the Finnish Defence Forces’ (FDF) Logistics Command office. The proposals include preliminary quotations on cost.

The air force plans to retire its fleet of F/A-18 C/D Hornet jets between 2025 and 2029 [emphasis added, roughly RCAF time frame too]. The HX-FP carries an estimated price tag of €11.4 billion, a cost that includes life cycle service and maintenance overheads on a fleet of 64 multirole aircraft.

The government received proposals from four countries, including the United States, Sweden, France and Britain.

The aircraft types covered in the proposals are Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin’s F-35, France’s Dassault Rafale, the British-made Eurofighter and the Swedish Saab Gripen. The Saab proposal includes both the single-seat Gripen E and the dual-seat Gripen F versions.

Request for Quotation (RFQ) documents were dispatched by the Logistics Command to the governments of France, the United States, Britain and Sweden in April 2018. The petitions were then forwarded to the five participating manufacturers. The deadline for acceptance of responses was Jan. 31, 2019.

The proposals received by the Logistics Command include information pertaining to technical systems requirements for operating a fleet of 64 aircraft, as well as support documentation dealing with training systems, essential maintenance tools, testing equipment, spare parts, weapons systems and sensors...

The proposal presented by Saab sets out the basis for a broad, long-term industrial cooperation between Finland and Sweden framed around any deal. The proposal covers the production of military aircraft in Finland. It also includes the transfer of maintenance, repair and overhaul capabilities to local industry in Finland. Moreover, Saab is proposing to establish a Gripen sustainment and development center in Finland.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/02/01/industry-bids-are-in-for-finlands-13-billion-fighter-race/

Both Saab and Airbus to offer nice bribes for Bombardier in our competition?

Mark
Ottawa

[Hamish Seggie]

Meanwhile in Canada the GoC is kicking the effing can down the road. 🤦‍♂️

[Retired AF Guy]

Meanwhile in Canada the GoC is kicking the effing can down the road. 🤦‍♂️

Because that's what they always do.

[Dimsum]

Meanwhile in Canada the GoC is kicking the effing can down the road. 🤦‍♂️

Because we "can".  Finland is next to...well, you know.  They probably have defence as a pretty high priority given geography and history.

[MarkOttawa]

Dimsum:

Because we "can".  Finland is next to...well, you know.

Meanwhile we have that pesky 36-fighter commitment to NORAD vs an ever-improving Russkie bombers (Tu-95, Tu-160, maybe sometime a stealth bomber) and ALCM threat--and what if those bombers can be escorted by refuelled fighters, e.g. MiG-31, later Su-57?

NORAD to Face Escorted Cruise Missile-Carrying Russian Bombers?
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2016/04/11/mark-collins-norad-to-face-escorted-cruise-missile-carrying-russian-bombers/

Further links to other posts within the main post no longer work, but do if you cut and past the title into the search box at upper right.

Mark
Ottawa

[Dimsum]

Dimsum:

Meanwhile we have that pesky 36-fighter commitment to NORAD vs an ever-improving Russkie bombers (Tu-95, Tu-160, maybe sometime a stealth bomber) and ALCM threat--and what if those bombers can be escorted by refuelled fighters, e.g. MiG-31, later Su-57?

Further links to other posts within the main post no longer work, but do if you cut and past the title into the search box at upper right.

Mark
Ottawa

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why we need a robust fighter capability, but the Canadian public doesn't b/c of reasons we've gone into in multiple discussions.  I'm just saying that the Finns share a border with Russia and have been invaded before by them during WWII, so they know that they need a decent military.

[Colin P]

Fly in front of the with special containers dispensing Frozen Chickens 

[daftandbarmy]

Fly in front of the with special containers dispensing Frozen Chickens 

Or 'Trudeau Parkas'. They could actually use them in Scandinavia...