Author Topic: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols  (Read 10374 times)

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Offline Dimsum

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Australia's Chief of Army, Lieutenant General Angus Campbell, has issued a directive that prohibits the wearing of 'death' symbols.

Lieutenant General Campbell said the practice was arrogant, ill-considered and that it eroded the ethos of the Army.

The directive was circulated as an internal minute on April 17, and later posted to unofficial social media pages for commentary.

Several symbols were specifically prohibited because of their violent, murderous and vigilante symbolism including the Grim Reaper, the Skull and Crossbones, Spartans, and the Phantom or Punisher.

(More at link)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-19/army-bans-troops-from-wearing-skulls-death-symbols/9673242?pfmredir=sm
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

jollyjacktar

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 12:33:28 »
Go with Care Bears or Pokémon, that will send a kinder, gentler message.

Offline meni0n

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 12:38:49 »
Guess the Queen's Royal Lancers can't come for a visit

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Offline CountDC

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 12:39:41 »
some of those pokemon can be a bit vicious.
"When the power of love, overcomes the love of power....the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix [1942-1970]

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 12:48:23 »
No more Skulls and Crossbones?  How is an Australian submarine supposed to signal a successful patrol now ???

jollyjacktar

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 13:06:53 »
I think their out will be that this is the Chief of the Army setting rules for his troops and the RAN should be outside of that umbrella.  If not, perhaps they could have a pennant complete with (a sorrowful looking Trudeau equivalent for down under) a "Sorry" incorporated in the design.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 18:25:16 »
Guess the Queen's Royal Lancers can't come for a visit

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Lancers

Ok, that capbadge is pretty badass, as far as capbadges go.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 18:47:44 »
Did anyone read the rationale?

Quote
Several symbols were specifically prohibited because of their violent, murderous and vigilante symbolism including the Grim Reaper, the Skull and Crossbones, Spartans, and the Phantom or Punisher.

Symbols matter.  Indisciplined, murderous, and vigilante are words that one should not associate with a military.  A military is about the controlled use of force, under the auspices of the state.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2018, 18:49:26 »
Then I’d be banned
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

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Offline Loachman

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2018, 19:08:35 »
"We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "frig" on their airplanes because it's obscene!"
- Colonel Kurz, Apocalypse Now

We had the Punisher painted on one of our Sperwers.

jollyjacktar

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2018, 19:21:43 »
Did anyone read the rationale?

Symbols matter.  Indisciplined, murderous, and vigilante are words that one should not associate with a military.  A military is about the controlled use of force, under the auspices of the state.

Sorry.  The reason for being as a soldier, sailor, airman isn't to hand out Teddy Bears.  The ultimate end game as Geroge Patton said is to make the other poor SOB die for his counrty.  I'm afraid I never observed the Australians running amok in the sandbox.  Don't like the symbols?  Join the Peace Corps or Katimavick.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2018, 19:25:47 »
I wonder what the RAAF policy would be for writing messages on bombs?
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,125837.msg1490057.html#msg1490057


Offline Loachman

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2018, 21:18:47 »
We could write "Sorry, eh?"

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2018, 21:58:11 »
I wonder what the RAAF policy would be for writing messages on bombs?
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,125837.msg1490057.html#msg1490057

Well, RAAF 82 Wing's motto is "Find and Destroy", and 11 Sqn's motto is "Shepherd or Destroy", so I think that sums up their views on the topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._82_Wing_RAAF
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._11_Squadron_RAAF
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline mariomike

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2018, 22:24:45 »
Well, RAAF 82 Wing's motto is "Find and Destroy", and 11 Sqn's motto is "Shepherd or Destroy", so I think that sums up their views on the topic.

They did a lot of bombing, and paid a high price. Of the 10,000 Australians who served with Bomber Command, 3486 were killed.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2018, 09:09:11 »
Meh....

What's 'Under the sleeve' is up to the soldier IMHO.

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Altair

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2018, 09:17:57 »
Spartans continue to get a bad rap
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2018, 09:27:41 »
What's 'Under the sleeve' is up to the soldier IMHO.

Regarding tattoos, "tattoos and/or brands are permitted on other parts of the body, unless the tattoo or brand is considered offensive and undermines the dignity and authority of the Australian Defence Force."
https://www.defencejobs.gov.au/help-centre/faqs?faqCategory=99e0bf0d-2129-44c1-b3e5-715941b3c216&faqTag=appearance&faqQuestion=8ebc9b5f-b3fb-441b-bf95-693272ef65f8

Offline Mike5

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2018, 09:32:26 »
 “After all, when you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite.”

Sir Winston Churchill
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Online Remius

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2018, 10:03:42 »
Spartans continue to get a bad rap

There is a whole other thread about that. 
Optio

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 11:22:20 »
Maybe they're just taking a more feminist approach to the military and doing away with toxic masculine symbols.


 

Quote
The Australian Army is turning away male recruits in a 'politically correct' push to increase the number of female cadets.

Recruiters at the Australian Defence Force have been told they will be re-located if they ignore orders to target women for new jobs, The Daily Telegraph reported.

Of the 50 listed recruiting vacancies, 35 of those positions are only available to women.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4779178/Australian-Army-turning-away-male-recruits-female.html#ixzz5DE638U6N

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4779178/Australian-Army-turning-away-male-recruits-female.html
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 11:44:40 »
Maybe they're just taking a more feminist approach to the military and doing away with toxic masculine symbols.


 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4779178/Australian-Army-turning-away-male-recruits-female.html

And I'm sure that will help fill the Infantry battalions with females.  :sarcasm:
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline beirnini

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Offline mariomike

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2018, 20:17:47 »
Indisciplined, murderous, and vigilante are words that one should not associate with a military. 

Three different views on killing,

Oscar Levant said, "When I appeared before the draft board examiner during World War II, he asked me if I thought I could kill. "I don't know about strangers," I replied, "but friends, certainly." "  :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._82_Wing_RAAF
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._11_Squadron_RAAF

I read of one airman who was invited to choose his own target from the four the squadron were detailed to attack that night. ( Because his hometown had been bombed by the Luftwaffe, he was given the opportunity to get some revenge. )
Instead of the heavily populated ( and defended ) cities of Hamburg or Cologne, he chose an airfield in Holland. Simply because it offered him the best chance of surviving the night.

On the other hand, "The Norwegians never cared about the economic importance of a target. They simply wanted to know how many Germans per acre."

From what I have read, much of the stuff written on bombs was done by ground staff for the photographers, rather than the men who would drop them.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 20:36:55 by mariomike »

jollyjacktar

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Re: Chief of Army bans soldiers from wearing 'arrogant' death symbols
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2018, 20:40:33 »
My dad respected the opposition as professionals as well as fellow sufferers from the misery of it all.  A better man than l. 

I can't honestly think of any fate I wouldn't wish upon the Taliban and their ilk.  The more horrible, the better, as far as I'm concerned.