Author Topic: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]  (Read 5426 times)

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Offline Brihard

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Reviving the disaster assistance thread. Looks like Quebec has called in the army for the flooding that’s about to happen in the Gatineau area and elsewhere. Nice to see they aren’t waiting til it’s been underwater for a week already this time. I’ve not seen details yet on call outs, but I imagine the IRUs are spooling up.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/rainfall-warnings-flooding-southern-quebec-1.5105087
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Offline FJAG

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2019, 20:35:25 »
To a degree. The current approach is to rate floods at 100, 300 or 1000 year events with the lower numbers occurring more often and being less severe. The 1997 flood was a 1000yr event, and the 2011 flood a 300 year event. Most serious floods here are 100yr events and cause widespread, but reasonably easy to manage crises.

Several factors come into play when flood forecasting: the amount of fall rain and ground saturation coupled with the first freeze date, the winter snow cover, and upstream events in North Dakota; to name a few. Flood forecasts can change at a moments notice if there is a large late season snowfall with very cold weather that prevents runoff. This last factor was what precipitated the flood of 2011 which had initially been rated at 100yr but was much worse. The recent reduction in flood damages are due to several initiatives: widening the mouth of the Floodway where it drains into Lake Winnipeg, completion of the Brunkild dyke, and extension of the Portage diversion for example. As each of these projects nears completion, the degree of flood damage should lessen. That being said, there are some towns like Morris, that will continue to be at risk, as will some farms. The Red River drainage basin is massive, taking up most of lower MB and some of lower SK, and flooding can occur anywhere within its boundaries.

Link to map.

And let's not forget that after the 1950 flood in Winnipeg, the Manitoba Government authorized the building of the Red River Floodway:

Quote
At the time, the project was the second largest earth-moving project in the world – next only to the construction of the Panama Canal.[7] The total cost at the time was $63 million (CAD), equivalent to approximately $505 million today.

It has been very effective

Quote
Subsequent events have vindicated the plan. Since its completion in 1968, the Floodway has prevented over $40 billion (CAD) in cumulative flood damage.[3] It was designated a National Historic Site of Canada in 2000, as the floodway is an outstanding engineering achievement both in terms of function and impact.

The 1997 flood was definitely an unexpected event and after which an expansion to the system was undertaken

Quote
The Red River Floodway Expansion was completed in late 2010 at a final cost of more than $665,000,000 CAD. Since the completion of the expansion, the capacity of the floodway has increased to 4,000 cubic metres (140,000 cubic feet) per second, the estimated level of a 1-in-700 year flood event.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Floodway

Looks to me like Manitoba has taken its responsibilities seriously.

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« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 20:39:51 by FJAG »
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2019, 23:35:58 »
And let's not forget that after the 1950 flood in Winnipeg, the Manitoba Government authorized the building of the Red River Floodway:

It has been very effective

The 1997 flood was definitely an unexpected event and after which an expansion to the system was undertaken

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Floodway

Looks to me like Manitoba has taken its responsibilities seriously.

 :cheers:

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2019, 17:34:26 »
I had the privilege of meeting Mr. Roblin in our command post in Winnipeg during the floods. A true gentleman, but boy, talk about somebody who clearly was feeling very vindicated! He got a lot of criticism when the spillway was being built, but nobody in 1997 was criticizing him.

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Offline Brihard

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2019, 17:57:14 »
Ottawa has declared a state of emergency, first time since the Ice Storm of '98. The mayor is anticipating 400 troops on the ground starting tomorrow. I suspect we'll see 33 CBG units in the NCR get activated.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Offline kratz

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2019, 19:06:22 »
When aid to civil power is requested from the RCN, the answer is a total force response.
The navy responds what assets, where ect...and how can it be deployed.

Most of the media reports for Op LENTUS are for soldiers...but our RCN  sailors respond with our expertise and resources.
Standing up the Op Cen is a far better improvement to the mistakes from 20 years ago.

Edit: Photo credit to @HMCSNCSMPrevost
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 19:24:39 by kratz »
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2019, 08:43:15 »
Here in Montreal, most of the media specifically mentions that the military aid is from the Army and the Canadian Navy (they don't say "Royal", but at least they acknowledge the contribution.). In fact, they also show seamen at work, and on the first few days of the OP, they even showed a herky-bird landing in St-Hubert and unloading a large Rhib - then explaining that the Navy was bringing in specialized boats.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2019, 17:49:59 »
Here in Montreal, most of the media specifically mentions that the military aid is from the Army and the Canadian Navy (they don't say "Royal", but at least they acknowledge the contribution.). In fact, they also show seamen at work, and on the first few days of the OP, they even showed a herky-bird landing in St-Hubert and unloading a large Rhib - then explaining that the Navy was bringing in specialized boats.

I saw a couple of really good clips with a couple of young OS in a RHIB out helping... BZ everyone and be safe.
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Offline kratz

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2019, 18:26:59 »
I'm happy to see our veterans doing what our elected leaders hedge away from.

LCol (Ret'd) McCrimmon, Karen sand bagging away and having to step up when things got out of hand...with JT's visit.
She just wanted to get things back to the job.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2019, 21:10:14 »
I'm happy to see our veterans doing what our elected leaders hedge away from.

LCol (Ret'd) McCrimmon, Karen sand bagging away and having to step up when things got out of hand...with JT's visit.
She just wanted to get things back to the job.

A number of local residents in that area who were on site have been confirming that the PM’s visit held things up by around an hour.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2019, 08:04:23 »
Damned if you do damned if you don't.

The GG visited
Doug Ford spent time handing out his phone number
JT showed up
Andrew Scheer came out

They all get crapped on when they show up, they all get crapped on if they don't.  No matter what, they all get in the way and disrupt things. 
Optio

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2019, 09:16:11 »
The only one getting crapped on is the PM, but I wouldn't want to cloud the issue with facts.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2019, 09:22:57 »
Damned if you do damned if you don't.

The GG visited
Doug Ford spent time handing out his phone number
JT showed up
Andrew Scheer came out

They all get crapped on when they show up, they all get crapped on if they don't.  No matter what, they all get in the way and disrupt things.

To my knowledge, only one of that list got publically crapped on.
That is a bad sign for the Liberal team, when that happens. I cannot wait to see what happens at the Calgary Stampede pancake breakfast this. If JT even shows up.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2019, 09:42:21 »
To my knowledge, only one of that list got publically crapped on.
That is a bad sign for the Liberal team, when that happens. I cannot wait to see what happens at the Calgary Stampede pancake breakfast this. If JT even shows up.

True.  My point is that politicians will be criticized one way or another by those that don't like them. 

Also that area is traditionally conservative country.
Optio

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2019, 09:47:41 »
True.  My point is that politicians will be criticized one way or another by those that don't like them. 

Also that area is traditionally conservative country.

I spoke to a guy who used to be a 'handler' for politicians.

He said that, if you are a politician and decide to turn up during some kind of emergency, stick to the 'war room' level of operations, and be seen to bring help of some kind. Any effort to look like you're helping on the front lines, like filling sandbags, is always taken as a tawdry grandstanding effort.
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2019, 14:47:50 »
Why did 31 CBG cancel their training mid way through and go to Ottawa when 33 CBG is already there?

Offline MilEME09

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2019, 15:34:08 »
Why did 31 CBG cancel their training mid way through and go to Ottawa when 33 CBG is already there?

Probably cause they need the equipment or man power. DOMOPs has priority so if they need people or equipment, training can be cancelled
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Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2019, 15:16:56 »
Quote
Montreal authorities annoyed by selfie-seekers in flooded areas
By Staff The Canadian Pres

Montreal first responders are warning against so-called disaster tourism after noting a spike in selfie-seekers in neighbourhoods threatened by swollen rivers.

An operations chief with the Montreal fire department says his teams have seen many people who don’t live in the affected areas milling about makeshift dikes and other flood-relief infrastructure, snapping photos and selfies.

The fire department’s Martin Guilbault says all they’re doing is getting in the way of emergency workers who are trying to keep the areas secure.

Guilbault says he personally observed the phenomenon, and people have been asked politely to leave.

He says the dikes have been made in a matter of days and aren’t permanent infrastructure, and he doesn’t want onlookers possibly damaging them.

Emergency officials also don’t want to have to deal with outsiders should one of the dikes give way, creating an extreme emergency.

“Don’t come by if you have no reason to be here,” Guilbault said, summarizing his department’s message Tuesday.


https://globalnews.ca/news/5221847/montreal-flooding-authorities-warn-people-against-selfies/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-flooding-dikes-disaster-tourism-1.5115179
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2019, 22:25:26 »
The main bridge in to the base at Petawawa has been closed, as the local department of public works dumps truckloads of boulders to try to stop the raging river from further eroding the banks.

Quote
A massive operation is underway in Petawawa to save a key bridge. Rising flood waters are eroding an abutment on the Petawawa Boulevard Bridge, the main link between the town and the military base. Truckload after truckload of massive boulders is being dumped along an abutment in a frantic effort to save it from collapse. The swollen and now ferocious Petawawa River is chewing away at the concrete on the 45 year old structure

Lee Perkin is the Director of Public Works for the County of Renfrew, “Upstream, the river takes a sharp turn and with this much flow, it wants to go straight so it is undermining all the embankment behind us.”

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/petawawa-boulevard-bridge-closes-at-risk-of-collapse-1.4402275#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=s4xxnmF

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2019, 23:17:38 »
I have many, many hours white water kayaking that stretch of River. This spring is going to change the rapids, just a bit...

Offline FJAG

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The main bridge in to the base at Petawawa has been closed, as the local department of public works dumps truckloads of boulders to try to stop the raging river from further eroding the banks.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/petawawa-boulevard-bridge-closes-at-risk-of-collapse-1.4402275#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=s4xxnmF

Looks like 1972 déjà vu all over again.

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Offline daftandbarmy

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And now there's a freezing rain warning for the whole area.

https://www.google.org/publicalerts/alert?aid=4b04147211a29a21&hl=en&gl=CA&source=wweather

That should help. Not.
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Doug Ford is just giving a speech at the Muskoka Chamber of Commerce.  First thing he does is acknowledge, recognize and thank the CF for coming to the rescue “ like cavalry”.  It has been a long time since a Premier of Ontario has so consistently recognized the CF.
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