Author Topic: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]  (Read 10477 times)

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Offline Brihard

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Reviving the disaster assistance thread. Looks like Quebec has called in the army for the flooding that’s about to happen in the Gatineau area and elsewhere. Nice to see they aren’t waiting til it’s been underwater for a week already this time. I’ve not seen details yet on call outs, but I imagine the IRUs are spooling up.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/rainfall-warnings-flooding-southern-quebec-1.5105087
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline FJAG

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2019, 20:35:25 »
To a degree. The current approach is to rate floods at 100, 300 or 1000 year events with the lower numbers occurring more often and being less severe. The 1997 flood was a 1000yr event, and the 2011 flood a 300 year event. Most serious floods here are 100yr events and cause widespread, but reasonably easy to manage crises.

Several factors come into play when flood forecasting: the amount of fall rain and ground saturation coupled with the first freeze date, the winter snow cover, and upstream events in North Dakota; to name a few. Flood forecasts can change at a moments notice if there is a large late season snowfall with very cold weather that prevents runoff. This last factor was what precipitated the flood of 2011 which had initially been rated at 100yr but was much worse. The recent reduction in flood damages are due to several initiatives: widening the mouth of the Floodway where it drains into Lake Winnipeg, completion of the Brunkild dyke, and extension of the Portage diversion for example. As each of these projects nears completion, the degree of flood damage should lessen. That being said, there are some towns like Morris, that will continue to be at risk, as will some farms. The Red River drainage basin is massive, taking up most of lower MB and some of lower SK, and flooding can occur anywhere within its boundaries.

Link to map.

And let's not forget that after the 1950 flood in Winnipeg, the Manitoba Government authorized the building of the Red River Floodway:

Quote
At the time, the project was the second largest earth-moving project in the world – next only to the construction of the Panama Canal.[7] The total cost at the time was $63 million (CAD), equivalent to approximately $505 million today.

It has been very effective

Quote
Subsequent events have vindicated the plan. Since its completion in 1968, the Floodway has prevented over $40 billion (CAD) in cumulative flood damage.[3] It was designated a National Historic Site of Canada in 2000, as the floodway is an outstanding engineering achievement both in terms of function and impact.

The 1997 flood was definitely an unexpected event and after which an expansion to the system was undertaken

Quote
The Red River Floodway Expansion was completed in late 2010 at a final cost of more than $665,000,000 CAD. Since the completion of the expansion, the capacity of the floodway has increased to 4,000 cubic metres (140,000 cubic feet) per second, the estimated level of a 1-in-700 year flood event.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Floodway

Looks to me like Manitoba has taken its responsibilities seriously.

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 20:39:51 by FJAG »
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2019, 23:35:58 »
And let's not forget that after the 1950 flood in Winnipeg, the Manitoba Government authorized the building of the Red River Floodway:

It has been very effective

The 1997 flood was definitely an unexpected event and after which an expansion to the system was undertaken

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Floodway

Looks to me like Manitoba has taken its responsibilities seriously.

 :cheers:

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Offline OldTanker

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2019, 17:34:26 »
I had the privilege of meeting Mr. Roblin in our command post in Winnipeg during the floods. A true gentleman, but boy, talk about somebody who clearly was feeling very vindicated! He got a lot of criticism when the spillway was being built, but nobody in 1997 was criticizing him.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2019, 17:57:14 »
Ottawa has declared a state of emergency, first time since the Ice Storm of '98. The mayor is anticipating 400 troops on the ground starting tomorrow. I suspect we'll see 33 CBG units in the NCR get activated.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2019, 19:06:22 »
When aid to civil power is requested from the RCN, the answer is a total force response.
The navy responds what assets, where ect...and how can it be deployed.

Most of the media reports for Op LENTUS are for soldiers...but our RCN  sailors respond with our expertise and resources.
Standing up the Op Cen is a far better improvement to the mistakes from 20 years ago.

Edit: Photo credit to @HMCSNCSMPrevost
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 19:24:39 by kratz »
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2019, 08:43:15 »
Here in Montreal, most of the media specifically mentions that the military aid is from the Army and the Canadian Navy (they don't say "Royal", but at least they acknowledge the contribution.). In fact, they also show seamen at work, and on the first few days of the OP, they even showed a herky-bird landing in St-Hubert and unloading a large Rhib - then explaining that the Navy was bringing in specialized boats.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2019, 17:49:59 »
Here in Montreal, most of the media specifically mentions that the military aid is from the Army and the Canadian Navy (they don't say "Royal", but at least they acknowledge the contribution.). In fact, they also show seamen at work, and on the first few days of the OP, they even showed a herky-bird landing in St-Hubert and unloading a large Rhib - then explaining that the Navy was bringing in specialized boats.

I saw a couple of really good clips with a couple of young OS in a RHIB out helping... BZ everyone and be safe.
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2019, 18:26:59 »
I'm happy to see our veterans doing what our elected leaders hedge away from.

LCol (Ret'd) McCrimmon, Karen sand bagging away and having to step up when things got out of hand...with JT's visit.
She just wanted to get things back to the job.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2019, 21:10:14 »
I'm happy to see our veterans doing what our elected leaders hedge away from.

LCol (Ret'd) McCrimmon, Karen sand bagging away and having to step up when things got out of hand...with JT's visit.
She just wanted to get things back to the job.

A number of local residents in that area who were on site have been confirming that the PM’s visit held things up by around an hour.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Remius

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2019, 08:04:23 »
Damned if you do damned if you don't.

The GG visited
Doug Ford spent time handing out his phone number
JT showed up
Andrew Scheer came out

They all get crapped on when they show up, they all get crapped on if they don't.  No matter what, they all get in the way and disrupt things. 
Optio

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2019, 09:16:11 »
The only one getting crapped on is the PM, but I wouldn't want to cloud the issue with facts.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2019, 09:22:57 »
Damned if you do damned if you don't.

The GG visited
Doug Ford spent time handing out his phone number
JT showed up
Andrew Scheer came out

They all get crapped on when they show up, they all get crapped on if they don't.  No matter what, they all get in the way and disrupt things.

To my knowledge, only one of that list got publically crapped on.
That is a bad sign for the Liberal team, when that happens. I cannot wait to see what happens at the Calgary Stampede pancake breakfast this. If JT even shows up.

Offline Remius

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2019, 09:42:21 »
To my knowledge, only one of that list got publically crapped on.
That is a bad sign for the Liberal team, when that happens. I cannot wait to see what happens at the Calgary Stampede pancake breakfast this. If JT even shows up.

True.  My point is that politicians will be criticized one way or another by those that don't like them. 

Also that area is traditionally conservative country.
Optio

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2019, 09:47:41 »
True.  My point is that politicians will be criticized one way or another by those that don't like them. 

Also that area is traditionally conservative country.

I spoke to a guy who used to be a 'handler' for politicians.

He said that, if you are a politician and decide to turn up during some kind of emergency, stick to the 'war room' level of operations, and be seen to bring help of some kind. Any effort to look like you're helping on the front lines, like filling sandbags, is always taken as a tawdry grandstanding effort.
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Offline DanteKania

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2019, 14:47:50 »
Why did 31 CBG cancel their training mid way through and go to Ottawa when 33 CBG is already there?

Offline MilEME09

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2019, 15:34:08 »
Why did 31 CBG cancel their training mid way through and go to Ottawa when 33 CBG is already there?

Probably cause they need the equipment or man power. DOMOPs has priority so if they need people or equipment, training can be cancelled
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Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2019, 15:16:56 »
Quote
Montreal authorities annoyed by selfie-seekers in flooded areas
By Staff The Canadian Pres

Montreal first responders are warning against so-called disaster tourism after noting a spike in selfie-seekers in neighbourhoods threatened by swollen rivers.

An operations chief with the Montreal fire department says his teams have seen many people who don’t live in the affected areas milling about makeshift dikes and other flood-relief infrastructure, snapping photos and selfies.

The fire department’s Martin Guilbault says all they’re doing is getting in the way of emergency workers who are trying to keep the areas secure.

Guilbault says he personally observed the phenomenon, and people have been asked politely to leave.

He says the dikes have been made in a matter of days and aren’t permanent infrastructure, and he doesn’t want onlookers possibly damaging them.

Emergency officials also don’t want to have to deal with outsiders should one of the dikes give way, creating an extreme emergency.

“Don’t come by if you have no reason to be here,” Guilbault said, summarizing his department’s message Tuesday.


https://globalnews.ca/news/5221847/montreal-flooding-authorities-warn-people-against-selfies/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-flooding-dikes-disaster-tourism-1.5115179
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2019, 22:25:26 »
The main bridge in to the base at Petawawa has been closed, as the local department of public works dumps truckloads of boulders to try to stop the raging river from further eroding the banks.

Quote
A massive operation is underway in Petawawa to save a key bridge. Rising flood waters are eroding an abutment on the Petawawa Boulevard Bridge, the main link between the town and the military base. Truckload after truckload of massive boulders is being dumped along an abutment in a frantic effort to save it from collapse. The swollen and now ferocious Petawawa River is chewing away at the concrete on the 45 year old structure

Lee Perkin is the Director of Public Works for the County of Renfrew, “Upstream, the river takes a sharp turn and with this much flow, it wants to go straight so it is undermining all the embankment behind us.”

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/petawawa-boulevard-bridge-closes-at-risk-of-collapse-1.4402275#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=s4xxnmF

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2019, 23:17:38 »
I have many, many hours white water kayaking that stretch of River. This spring is going to change the rapids, just a bit...

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The main bridge in to the base at Petawawa has been closed, as the local department of public works dumps truckloads of boulders to try to stop the raging river from further eroding the banks.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/petawawa-boulevard-bridge-closes-at-risk-of-collapse-1.4402275#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=s4xxnmF

Looks like 1972 déjà vu all over again.

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Offline daftandbarmy

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And now there's a freezing rain warning for the whole area.

https://www.google.org/publicalerts/alert?aid=4b04147211a29a21&hl=en&gl=CA&source=wweather

That should help. Not.
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Doug Ford is just giving a speech at the Muskoka Chamber of Commerce.  First thing he does is acknowledge, recognize and thank the CF for coming to the rescue “ like cavalry”.  It has been a long time since a Premier of Ontario has so consistently recognized the CF.
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Quote
Soldiers in flood zone engage in germ warfare

Their enemy is E. coli, their weapons bleach and scrub brushes

Stu Mills · CBC News · Posted: May 04, 2019


Soldiers at Ottawa's Connaught Range disinfect army waders after a day in the flood zone. (Stu Mills/CBC)


At the Connaught Range near Shirley's Bay in west Ottawa, three soldiers are engaging with the enemy in hand-to-hand combat.

The weapon of choice in this battle: a plastic kitchen scrub brush normally applied to casserole dishes in the mess hall.

Their enemy is E. coli, a coliform bacterium commonly found in the lower intestine of warm-blooded organisms.

The worry is that as the Ottawa River overruns septic fields and sewer systems in the area, E. coli cells, which can survive outside the body for a limited amount of time, will mix with the water circulating around waders, boots and ungloved hands, and sicken the 700 or so soldiers helping with the flood effort here.

So far, the military says it's been winning the battle.


Army waders hang to dry in a heated building at Connaught Range. (Stu Mills/CBC)


A simple solution

Three large grey, Rubbermaid tubs sit on folding tables in the parking lot of a building on Brouillette Boulevard near the southwest corner of this sprawling training facility.

"It's a very simple solution," said Cpl. David Pickett.

In the first tub, dirty waders are scrubbed down with soapy water. They're then dunked in the middle tub and rinsed with clean water.

Finally, a third container containing one part bleach and 10 parts water is used to put the enemy out of its misery.

The clean equipment is then taken to hang dry in a building where a diesel-fuelled heater and fans have created a tropical environment.

"Hygiene is crucial," said Pickett, who hails from North Bay, Ont.


After they have been cleaned with soap and a mild bleach solution, soldiers hang the wet waders inside a heated building to dry. (Stu Mills/CBC)


Simple advice

The CFB Petawawa medical technician has training similar to that of a paramedic, and offers some simple advice to civilians who don't have decontamination stations of their own.

"Just shower at the end of every day. Make sure you're clean. Don't play in the water."

"To be honest, I'm not that worried," said Capt.James Bryan Fukakusa, the University of Ottawa-trained medical officer for operation LENTUS.

So far, the small field clinic at Connaught Range has dealt only with relatively minor injuries to the roughly 700 troops stationed here in tent-like shelters. It's been mostly sore backs, feet and hands, Fukakusa said.

"The kinds of things that I think a lot of Canadians are familiar with who have been working with sandbags — making them, putting them out into walls."


Capt. James Bryan Fukakusa enters the field clinic where injured soldiers receive medical attention. (Stu Mills/CBC)


Handwashing crucial

Those with cuts or blisters should keep their wounds covered and dry, he said. If there is pain or swelling, they should seek medical attention.

One of the greatest dangers is inattention: soldiers who have been working in the dirty water and take a break for food or drink without first washing their hands.

"You need to treat [the water] as contaminated," agreed Michael Ferguson, Ottawa Public Health's health hazards response unit manager

OPH is directing anyone in the flood zone to consult a special web page.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/soldiers-flood-zone-engage-germ-warfare-1.5122493
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Offline Dimsum

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I understand the context, but I don't think "germ warfare" is the right term...
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The latest:  Hercs into NW Ontario to help evacuate folks from forest fire smoke ...
Quote
Today, the Honourable Ralph Goodale, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, made the following statement about wildfires and heavy smoke impacting the community of Pikangikum First Nation in Ontario:

"I received a request this morning from the Province of Ontario regarding the impact of nearby wildfires and heavy smoke from forest fires occurring in Western Canada on the community of Pikangikum First Nation. On behalf of the Government of Canada, the Associate Minister of National Defence, the Honourable Lawrence MacAulay, on behalf of the Honourable Harjit Sajjan, Minister of National Defence, and I have accepted their formal request for federal assistance to provide immediate evacuation resources to the affected communities. This Ontario request involves the deployment of Canadian Armed Forces personnel to provide transportation support for evacuation of members from the fly-in community of Pikangikum First Nation to a designated host community.

The Government Operations Centre has staff working to coordinate the federal response to the situation in Ontario. Officials are working closely with federal and provincial partners to coordinate and plan the full details of this assistance.

Canadians can be assured that all levels of government are working seamlessly together to deliver the required help ...
This from MSM ...
Quote
Emergency management officials in Ontario say they expect three flights using Canadian military aircraft will be at the core of evacuation efforts in Pikangikum First Nation in northern Ontario on Thursday as a large wildfire burning near the community prompted a state of emergency.

The MPP for the area said local leaders have told him some residents have left on their own.

The provincial government has arranged with a number of cities across northern Ontario to host evacuees, including Thunder Bay.

Officials in Pikangikum, a fly-in community located about 500 kilometres northwest of Thunder Bay, called for multiple planes Thursday morning to help people leave as a forest fire, known as Red lake 14, covered the First Nation in smoke and lit the sky red the night before.

The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry said early Thursday afternoon that the fire had grown from 12 hectares to 400 hectares in about a 24-hour period; it was over 3,000 hectares by early Thursday evening. Sol Mamakwa, the New Democrat MPP for the riding that includes Pikangikum, tweeted Thursday afternoon that the flames were threatening some homes ...
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2019, 08:23:07 »
Alberta, too ...
Quote
The federal government says the military is going to help with Alberta’s wildfire fight.

Federal Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale says Alberta has asked for Canadian Forces assistance and the federal government has accepted the request.

Goodale says the military will be ready to help airlift evacuees as needed, as well as transport supplies and provide medical assistance ...
Via the info-machine ...
Quote
May 31, 2019 – Today, the Honourable Ralph Goodale, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, issued the following statement about wildfires in Alberta.

“I have received a request from the Province of Alberta, regarding the wildfire situation. On behalf of the Government of Canada, the Minister of National Defence, the Honourable Harjit Sajjan, and I have accepted their formal request for federal assistance to help citizens in need.

The Government Operations Centre has dedicated staff working to coordinate the federal response to the situation in Alberta. Officials are working closely with federal and provincial partners on planning the details of this assistance, including support from Canadian Armed Forces. The federal government will make air and ground resources available as necessary for evacuations and the delivery of aid and medical support. Citizens can rest assured that help will be provided ...
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2019, 08:14:44 »
Latest iteration of Op LENTUS ...
Quote
... the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, the Honourable Ralph Goodale, announced that a request by the Province of Nova Scotia for federal assistance was approved to restore essential services and ensure public welfare in the wake of Hurricane Dorian.

The Canadian Armed Forces will answer the call to assist Canadians in their time of need. Up to 700 military personnel in Atlantic Canada are preparing to deploy as early as Sunday morning, September 8, 2019. Expected tasks will including moving quickly into affected communities to safeguard lives by assisting with the restoration of power services, clearing main roadways and evacuating residents in flooded or severely damaged areas.

The full impact of the storm remains unknown at this time, but the Canadian Armed Forces are committed to working with federal and provincial partners in order to mitigate the effects of the hurricane and keep Canadians safe.

Quotes

    “We are fully committed to the task at hand to support Nova Scotia Emergency Management and will move quickly and with purpose to protect Canadians and mitigate the effects of Hurricane Dorian. As members of your community, this storm is our adversary just as much as it is yours.”

    —   Commander Canadian Joint Operations Command Lieutenant-General Mike Rouleau

    “In response to Hurricane Dorian, the Joint Task Force Atlantic team has been in close communication with our provincial and municipal colleagues to ensure we are ready to respond rapidly in support of civil authorities to help restore our communities back to normal. We have already taken steps to prepare forces to respond quickly as the storm passes.”

    —   Commander Joint Task Force Atlantic, Rear-Admiral Craig Baines

Quick facts

    Joint Task Force Atlantic is in close communications with Nova Scotia Emergency Management in supporting the preparations for Hurricane Dorian to understand where and how the CAF can assist. Liaison Officers are integrated into all emergency management organizations to expedite communications between organizations.

    This is the fourth Operation LENTUS deployment for the CAF in 2019 and will be identified as Operation LENTUS 19-04.

    Public Safety Canada is the lead agency for coordinating federal emergency response in Canada. CAF personnel are in continuous liaison with Public Safety, as well as with provincial authorities and our other federal partners ...
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Offline RubberTree

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2019, 18:44:50 »
Is this the first time RENAISSANCE and LENTUS have deployed for the same event?

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2019, 19:22:00 »
Dorian is about as close to a 'mirror image' of a hurricane in Sept 2019 as Juan was in Sept 2003.  Track, intensity etc.  Landfall was pretty much the exact same spot (officially).  I was in Halifax at the HQ for Juan...hopefully, the CAF response to Dorian wasn't the internal clusterfuck it was in Sept 2003.

I don't remember Juan affecting the greater Maritime region to the extent Dorian has...that could just be memory fade.  Seeing pictures from all across the region.  Some people are very, very lucky.

I have a few friends who were right in the path of the eye and close to the coastline, one of them was telling me what that was like (amazing thru all the damage, etc that cell service still works).  According to him, it was "neat" when you could see the eye wall and then not so neat when the southern end of it started throwing punches again.

I'll throw a positive note out for both the MyRadar and Windy weather apps on iPhone.  Very helpful and accurate.

I wasn't in the eye, but was adjacent to it.  Whatever category that was, and wind speeds were hitting the house making the whole thing vibrate, that is about the most I hope to ever experience, thank you very much Mother Nature. 

Most importantly...no loss of life reported yet and hoping it stays that way.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 19:25:45 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2019, 20:00:29 »
Latest iteration of Op LENTUS ...

What's going on here? The didn't even mention Strong, Secure, Engaged once  :tsktsk:
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2019, 20:15:14 »
The center of the eye passed just south of Dartmouth as near as I can figure.  We were definitely in it because the winds were from the SE, then they went calm for 30 minutes, and then from the NW.  It was pretty disorganized as it went past and the eyewall had weakened... much weaker then Juan and nowhere near the damage.  Whole swaths of forest and most of Point Pleasant Park were taken out by Juan.

Didn't have any trees down or shingles off thankfully.  The power just flickered on for 5 seconds for the first time.  Been running the freezer on my Highlander Hybrid on an inverter all day.

There was one other major difference from Juan which had come in straight of the water from the south.  Dorian came in from the southwest.  The land between Chebucto Head and Peggy's Cove seemed to help it disorganized as it tracked over Halifax.  Prior to landfall the backside winds were stronger, but the back side was weaker as it passed over Dartmouth.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2019, 23:08:06 »
We had really heavy rain, but no real wind until just as it was getting dark;  powerful NW gusts.  First time I've felt a structure vibrate under my feet from wind.

A few shingles and power out is a pretty good deal!  Still no reports of loss of life, that makes today a good day.

There were the normal Darwin Award contestants out at Peggy's Cove... ::).  Some things never change....

I think the pic attached is the IRU showing up in Hfx today.  Odd to have the 36 CBG Comd there, not the Div Comd or JTFA Comd to do the grip and grin?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 23:27:30 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2019, 23:26:02 »
Lived through Juan - lost power then for about 26 hours.

Lived through Dorian (or "Donair" now that it's left Halifax) and responded to a Battalion Recall to report to the Windsor Park Armouries today.


This storm was nothing like Juan.  The intensity was no-where near the same. 


I bought a chain-saw on Friday- assuming I'd be needing it today.

Turns out I was able to send my 3 kids out to pick up the sticks that fell.  We got power back at about 0130 hrs.


Chain saw's gonna get used to chop up something tomorrow...I'll find a way!


I won't bother going into the detail about what the Unit did today in terms of response - suffice to say we generated troops that responded first thing this morning and were DAG'd, Class C'd and ready to move with 24 hrs of rations in hand, and chain-saws ready to go before noon.


NS
Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2019, 23:41:58 »
You guys seem to be focused solely on the 'core HRM area'.  I'm thinking a little bit bigger picture.  I was in Elmsdale during Juan, didn't really get the punch out there.

https://www.facebook.com/kalinCTV/photos/a.448904781813636/2416185755085519/?type=3&theater

Given all the variables and possibilities...these 2 storms were actually pretty close.
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2019, 23:50:34 »

I won't bother going into the detail about what the Unit did today in terms of response - suffice to say we generated troops that responded first thing this morning and were DAG'd, Class C'd and ready to move with 24 hrs of rations in hand, and chain-saws ready to go before noon.


NS

That's excellent work, right there  :salute:
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2019, 06:49:23 »
The O-Group I attended at 2130 last evening had discussions about many areas outside of HRM - yesterday's work was pushed out in the local area because of proximity to the base and IRU. 

One of the discussion points was the MKT's that came along - there's 3 present, one from the SvcBn in Willow Park - the 2 that came with the IRU are both available to be pushed out to where the troops will be working - and both Lawrencetown and Sydney were mentioned in discussions.  So, the reach of the response will be broad, and not solely focused on the city itself, and in the very first day's plans, the entire breadth of the province was discussed and considered.

NS
Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2019, 07:24:28 »
The power just came on.  Yeah.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2019, 07:38:52 »
The O-Group I attended at 2130 last evening had discussions about many areas outside of HRM - yesterday's work was pushed out in the local area because of proximity to the base and IRU. 

One of the discussion points was the MKT's that came along - there's 3 present, one from the SvcBn in Willow Park - the 2 that came with the IRU are both available to be pushed out to where the troops will be working - and both Lawrencetown and Sydney were mentioned in discussions.  So, the reach of the response will be broad, and not solely focused on the city itself, and in the very first day's plans, the entire breadth of the province was discussed and considered.

NS

This definitely sounds different than 2003, in a good way!
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2019, 09:08:42 »
Where I am in Dartmouth it was and wasn't that bad.  Lost power from about 3pm to about 7pm the next day.  The trees that I did see down looked like they had shallow roots and the water soaking really softened up the soil. letting them be pulled down more easy.  Neighbours house lost some siding, but not too bad. 

Given how long it takes a tree to grow I would bet dollars to donuts that the damage isn't as bad partially because Juan did such a number.  There are forests/woodlots around Halifax that are still recovering from Juan.

Honestly from a "intensity" perspective I've been in way worse storms in Ontario, BC and Quebec.  However those were generally very isolated (barring the ice storm) where as damage from this storm is everywhere.  There is damage all over Nova Scotia right now.  The Dockyard was still without power this morning.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2019, 16:37:53 »
Article Link

Army response to hurricane Dorian gets off to slow start in Dartmouth

The plan for Canadian Armed Forces soldiers to assist in the cleanup of debris in the wake of hurricane Dorian got off to a slow start on Monday.

Approximately 300 soldiers — mostly from CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick — have been assigned to Operation LENTUS.

On Monday morning, soldiers were deployed to Dartmouth, Yarmouth, Sydney, Liverpool, Lunenburg and Amherst.

Soldiers arrived in Dartmouth in three light armoured vehicles fully prepared to clear a heavy maple tree that brought down power lines as it fell, partially blocking a pathway on Lyngby Avenue.

Lt. Gabriel Picard was tasked with removing the large tree blocking the street.

“We are here to support the local authorities and to help things return to normal after the passage of hurricane Dorian,” said Picard, troop commander with 4 Engineer Support Regiment, based at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown.

Unfortunately, the soldiers left two hours later without having touched the tree. Without an electrician to ensure the site was safe, the soldiers put away their chainsaw and left to take a break.

The unit was successful in moving a slab of sidewalk in the area and the soldiers were able to quickly pack up and move on to another area.

Dartmouth resident Sherri MacDonald said she and her neighbours were grateful for the army’s assistance.

“When I drove up here a few minutes ago, it was a little shocking,” she said as onlookers gathered along the sun-drenched sidewalk.

“But I’m also really thankful that we have all of these folks out cleaning up our city and helping us get things back to normal.”

MacDonald said the storm temporarily cut power to her home on Richards Drive, but her property was not damaged.

“I do know that it wreaked havoc all over the city,” she said. “People can’t get to work. The power is out. Lines are down. Trees are blocking the way. I know that lots of folks had damage to their cars and their houses… I think it was a pretty significant impact.”

Soldiers deployed on Operation LENTUS are being sent where they are most needed and an additional 400 troops are being held in reserve if their assistance becomes necessary.


Okay, maybe not so different than 2003 was then?   ;D

What's with the body armour... ???
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 16:40:45 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2019, 16:55:17 »
LCF?

 ;D
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2019, 17:14:11 »
LCF?

 ;D

 :facepalm:

I was really hopin' someone would say it's mandatory PPE now for anyone turret-surfing...
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2019, 17:19:52 »
Article Link

Canadian soldiers armed with chainsaws clear debris left in Dorian's wake

Dartmouth resident Sherri MacDonald said she and her neighbours were grateful for the army's assistance

HALIFAX — Canadian soldiers armed with chainsaws fanned out across the Halifax area on Monday to help clean up the tangled mess of fallen trees and power lines left behind by post-tropical storm Dorian.

Their high-profile deployment — carried out under bright sunshine — was part of a wider effort to deal with power outages that have left much of the Maritimes in the dark for two days.

Utility companies in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and P.E.I. are facing a massive task in restoring electricity to hundreds of thousands of customers.




In Nova Scotia, the province that sustained the most damage from Dorian's hurricane-force winds, almost 200,000 homes and businesses were still without electricity on Monday afternoon.

Earlier in the day, three of the Canadian Army's light armoured vehicles were dispatched to a neighbourhood on the east side of Halifax harbour, where Lt. Gabriel Picard was tasked with removing a large maple tree blocking a residential street.

"We are here to support the local authorities and to help things return to normal after the passage of hurricane Dorian," said Picard, troop commander with 4 Engineer Support Regiment, based at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown in New Brunswick.

"Our main priority is to clear the roads and to make sure that people without power are safe."

However, Picard and his squad couldn't start cutting up the uprooted tree because its top branches were still tangled in utility wires on the far side of the street. Without an electrician to ensure the site was safe, the soldiers put away their chainsaw and left to take a break.

As their green armoured vehicles rumbled through Dartmouth, the soldiers were greeted with waves and shouts of encouragement from children on the sidewalk, enjoying a day off from school.

Dartmouth resident Sherri MacDonald said she and her neighbours were grateful for the army's assistance.

"When I drove up here a few minutes ago, it was a little shocking," she said as onlookers gathered along the sun-drenched sidewalk.

"But I'm also really thankful that we have all of these folks out cleaning up our city and helping us get things back to normal."

MacDonald said the storm temporarily cut power to her home on Richards Drive, but her property was not damaged.

"I do know that it wreaked havoc all over the city," she said. "People can't get to work. The power is out. Lines are down. Trees are blocking the way. I know that lots of folks had damage to their cars and their houses .... I think it was a pretty significant  impact."

About 300 soldiers from Canadian Forces Base Gagetown in central New Brunswick were brought in to help with the cleanup and another 400 "immediate reaction forces" were on standby.

On Sunday, Nova Scotia Power CEO Karen Hutt said the privately owned utility was facing a "worst case scenario" after Dorian roared over the middle of the province.

She said that even with the help of utility crews from Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick, Florida and Maine, it would likely be Wednesday before the lights are back on in all areas of the province.

Many schools across Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island were closed Monday, and emergency officials have been urging people to stay home — both for their own safety and to give cleanup crews the room they need to work.

In New Brunswick, more than 80,000 homes and businesses were without electricity at the peak of the storm on Saturday.

NB Power spokesman Marc Belliveau said that number had been reduced to about 10,000 by midday Monday, and he expected most of those would be reconnected by Monday night.

"The damage is widespread, so you might have one area where there are several hundred people that can be re-energized with one repair," he said.

"But in another area that's going to take you just as long to cut trees and do repairs, there might be one or two houses. That's going to be the ongoing challenge in the next couple of days."

On Prince Edward Island, Maritime Electric said efforts to restore power were slow-going.

"Due to the nature of the work, some customers may be without power until the end of the week," the utility wrote on its Twitter feed.

Meanwhile, many marinas around the Maritimes were left battered by Dorian's storm surges.

Boat owners at the Shediac Bay Yacht Club in New Brunswick were assessing damage Monday after strong winds and waves tossed boats around like toys.

"This is the worst we have ever seen," said Gilles Brine, a member of the club's executive.

"There are three boats that are on the rocks from the marina side, and on the slip side, there are about 20 boats that are on top of each other."

At the height of the storm, waves were crashing over the marina's breakwater, he said.

On Monday, crews were removing boats and damaged sections of the wharf.

In Nova Scotia, residents were being warned to be careful when using generators.

The Canadian Red Cross says a fire sparked by a generator damaged a historic general store in Petit Riviere, which is along Nova Scotia's southwestern shore.


Seems like a more positive outlook on the same story.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2019, 18:14:20 »
There is damage all over Nova Scotia right now.

Not even just to NS;  even though it was not expected to affect PEI other than the eastern portion, there is a significant area of damage centered around Summerside/Kensington in Prince County (western end of the Island).

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Offline Brihard

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2020, 15:28:11 »
OP STORM CHIPS is a go.

https://www.thetelegram.com/news/local/canadian-armed-forces-to-help-blizzard-ravaged-newfoundland-399922/

Canadian Armed Forces to help blizzard-ravaged Newfoundland
The Telegram

Quote
Premier Dwight Ball says request was made to federal government for assistance
The Canadian Armed Forces have been called in to help Newfoundland and Labrador dig out from a record-breaking blizzard.

Premier Dwight Ball made the announcement shortly after 4 p.m.

He said a request was made to the federal government for assistance, including mobilizing the armed forces, "to provide relief" to areas of the province affected by severe weather.

There are no details yet as to when the help will arrive, how many troops will be mobilized, or what areas will be a priority.

The Telegram will update this story when further details are available.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2020, 08:44:57 »
From the CAF OPS Facebook page:

This evening, the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) has commenced planning and begun activating forces to support the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador following an unprecedented winter storm. Our expected tasks will be to assist with snow removal, provide residents with transportation to warming or emergency centres, and ensure the elderly and those with health concerns are cared for.

We stand with Canadians in their time of need. Your community is also our community.

As we work closely with federal and provincial levels of government, we are also taking steps to pre-position military aircraft, equipment and personnel so that work can begin in the affected communities as early as tomorrow (Sunday Jan 19). This also includes enhancing our ability to conduct search and rescue operations out of Gander, Newfoundland.

The deployment of personnel on Operation LENTUS 20-01, will rely heavily on our Reserve Force personnel who reside in the communities hit hardest. For those who answer the call, we appreciate your dedication. Elements of Joint Task Force Atlantic’s Immediate Response Unit, based out of Gagetown, New Brunswick and Royal Canadian Air Force assets throughout Canada will also contribute to the CAF’s response to this situation.
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2020, 12:38:08 »
Gotta love NF media's headline ...
"Storm Troopers Incoming: Armed Forces Deploys Resources as States of Emergency Continue"
 ;D

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2020, 12:40:43 »
VOCM is every Newfoundlander's favourite news source...
I once worked with a Newfoundlander who said the same thing #VoiceOfTheCommonMan
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2020, 13:06:17 »
Seems CYYT is now open for medivac and military flights only...
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Offline Spencer100

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2020, 08:47:00 »
I will drop this here.  I bet points on both sides.  My only comment is also is good for the taxpayer and average person to see the CAF out. 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/growing-natural-disaster-response-risks-dulling-armys-fighting-edge-commander/ar-BBZ8vHC?ocid=spartanntp


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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2020, 09:55:11 »
Every picture that shows up on social media of a handful of troops standing around holding shovels next to a smiling grandmother who was just freed from her basement apartment is a huge public relations win for the forces...

Don't forget, the average Canadian is only vaguely aware Canada has an army/navy/air force...

While it may not be beneficial for fighting skills, every aid to civil power is at least a very effective exercise of logistics...

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2020, 11:45:30 »
Every picture that shows up on social media of a handful of troops standing around holding shovels next to a smiling grandmother who was just freed from her basement apartment is a huge public relations win for the forces...

Don't forget, the average Canadian is only vaguely aware Canada has an army/navy/air force...

While it may not be beneficial for fighting skills, every aid to civil power is at least a very effective exercise of logistics...

... and if you talk to the troops who deploy on these operations, many find it some of the most important and fulfilling work they've ever done, especially now that we're in in 'No Tours No Man's Land'.
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Re: Operation LENTUS %u2013 Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2020, 18:30:46 »
Not sure if this the proper location for this, but I was checking out the ADB-Exchange and noticed a RCAF CC-130J that departed Fredericton, NB about three hours ago and is presently in an oblong orbit off the east coast of Newfoundland. Not an expert in this so I don't know if its an actual SAR operation or just an exercise. The attached image shows the a/c flight path and its in its 12th (or so) orbit.

Update: Has now departed orbit and headed east. Looks like making final approach to St John's Airport.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 18:40:39 by Retired AF Guy »
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2020, 18:43:06 »
I will venture a guess that the weather at YYT is poor, that this is reinforcements for the soldiers already on the ground, and that there was finally a break in the weather that permitted them to land.
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Operation LENTUS %u2013 Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2020, 18:52:42 »
I will venture a guess that the weather at YYT is poor, that this is reinforcements for the soldiers already on the ground, and that there was finally a break in the weather that permitted them to land.

That makes perfect sense. Had something similar happen to me in '95 flying into Sarajevo airport, except it wasn't weather that was the cause for the delay. [:D

Checked another flight tracker and same a/c has been flying back and forth between Fredericton and St John's since yesterday. My bad.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 18:59:10 by Retired AF Guy »
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2020, 19:04:51 »
Not sure if this the proper location for this, but I was checking out the ADB-Exchange and noticed a RCAF CC-130J that departed Fredericton, NB about three hours ago and is presently in an oblong orbit off the east coast of Newfoundland. Not an expert in this so I don't know if its an actual SAR operation or just an exercise. The attached image shows the a/c flight path and its in its 12th (or so) orbit.

Update: Has now departed orbit and headed east. Looks like making final approach to St John's Airport.

I will venture a guess that the weather at YYT is poor, that this is reinforcements for the soldiers already on the ground, and that there was finally a break in the weather that permitted them to land.

Correct there was freezing rain so....
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2020, 19:35:00 »
Remind me again why we are sending soldiers to dig Newfoundland out?  Did they run out of shovels or something?

I grew up in one of the worst snow belts in all of Canada where it isn't uncommon to have 500cm a year of snow that stays on the ground for months on end. The thought of the Army being deployed seems like a massive waste of money and time unless there is something I'm missing?

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2020, 21:20:20 »
Every picture that shows up on social media of a handful of troops standing around holding shovels next to a smiling grandmother who was just freed from her basement apartment is a huge public relations win for the forces...

Don't forget, the average Canadian is only vaguely aware Canada has an army/navy/air force...

While it may not be beneficial for fighting skills, every aid to civil power is at least a very effective exercise of logistics...

Rick Hillier’s 2CMBG circa the Ontario Ice Storm. That did a lot to swing public opinion in the wake of the Somalia debacle
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2020, 22:10:03 »
Remind me again why we are sending soldiers to dig Newfoundland out?  Did they run out of shovels or something?

I grew up in one of the worst snow belts in all of Canada where it isn't uncommon to have 500cm a year of snow that stays on the ground for months on end. The thought of the Army being deployed seems like a massive waste of money and time unless there is something I'm missing?

You down homers are just jealous that the neighbors are getting all the attention :)
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2020, 22:15:09 »
Rick Hillier’s 2CMBG circa the Ontario Ice Storm. That did a lot to swing public opinion in the wake of the Somalia debacle

The flood of 1997 in Manitoba as well.
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2020, 23:00:23 »
The flood of 1997 in Manitoba as well.

I was going to post on this operation as well as the one Brihard cited. You may recall that before the troops deployed for the Manitoba flood, an academic, who had submitted very negative material to the Somalia enquiry, was cited opposing the use of troops. Her point was that militaries were made up of criminals recruited to avoid prison sentences, and, instead of performing flood control, would spend their time looting evacuated communities.

Also, our little town was without hydro for a week in the ice storm. The arrival of troops was welcomed wholeheartedly, and a few weeks later, when a couple of vehicles with driver training signs appeared, people lined the streets to applaud them. And the same thing happened when 3RCR did an exercise in our area to prepare for a deployment to the Balkans.

And my wife, shortly after the troops arrived post Ice storm, told two young lads from the 10th Field Battery, 56th Field Regiment, that she had forgotten how handsome young gunner were. The two lads were taken aback, as if they had failed into a cougar's lair, until I told them she was prejudiced as she had married one.

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2020, 23:10:27 »
Remind me again why we are sending soldiers to dig Newfoundland out?  Did they run out of shovels or something?

I grew up in one of the worst snow belts in all of Canada where it isn't uncommon to have 500cm a year of snow that stays on the ground for months on end. The thought of the Army being deployed seems like a massive waste of money and time unless there is something I'm missing?

I've also questioned some of the uses of Canadian military in assistance to civil authority operations.  My opinion is that Canada should have taken better steps to develop "volunteer" civil assistance (read disaster) response organizations such as can be found in many European countries (Germany is a good example that I'm familiar with) or similarly Australia (another good example - one that is stretched pretty thin at the moment).  However, since we have a pretty poor record (even going back to civil defence during wars both hot and cold) with organizations who can provide such "guaranteed" response, we are left with the CF being a primary (or secondary) responder.

As for the snow storm in Newfoundland - well, the optics of deploying to handle snow were put in the eye-rolling category a couple of decades ago by a Toronto mayor.  I don't know the problems caused by snow in that situation and other than speaking to family members who are currently facing the closure of everything, I have no first hand knowledge of the situation on the Rock at the moment.  But seeing some of the scenes of St. John 's (and recognizing streets that I was familiar with as a young rascal), I think I'm safe saying that some assistance is probably needed.  It may seem a little basic to shovel a path to someone's home, but with the greying population of Newfoundland there were some who were trapped inside.  My older brother had called me during the storm and we reminisced about some of the heavy snowfalls of our youth.  At the time he had been outside during the snowstorm trying to keep at least an emergency exit clear enough to be able to open.  He also related that there had been an avalanche in The Battery (it's a part of town at the foot of Signal Hill near the entrance to the harbour) - back about sixty years ago following a similar heavy snowfall, there had been another avalanche in The Battery that resulted in a couple of deaths (family of an uncle by marriage).  Luckily, this latest avalanche was without major injury but supposedly it took the fire department about three hours to get to the location to assist in recovery and evacuation of the rest of the community (it would normally take the FD not much more than several minutes to travel that distance).
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2020, 23:26:54 »
And my wife, shortly after the troops arrived post Ice storm, told two young lads from the 10th Field Battery, 56th Field Regiment, that she had forgotten how handsome young gunner were.

Clearly, your decision to commission had a long-term family impact.
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2020, 00:33:16 »
I grew up in one of the worst snow belts in all of Canada where it isn't uncommon to have 500cm a year of snow that stays on the ground for months on end.

Ah yes.  500cm in a year.  I believe they got almost twice that in two days.  That is a lot by any standard.  Then the 100km winds that came after to harden everything up.

Newfoundlanders are pretty hardy folk.  If they requested and welcomed military assistance then I will give them The benefit of the doubt that it was or is required.
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2020, 01:02:00 »
Ah yes.  500cm in a year.  I believe they got almost twice that in two days.  That is a lot by any standard.  Then the 100km winds that came after to harden everything up.

Newfoundlanders are pretty hardy folk.  If they requested and welcomed military assistance then I will give them The benefit of the doubt that it was or is required.

They got 5 meters of snow in two days? I think you might want to fact check that  :rofl:

The highest was actually 93cm observed outside St John's, here you go:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6434019/newfoundland-snow-environment-canada/amp/

So, they didn't even break a 100cm and they called in the Military?! 

From what I have heard, CAF members showed up, went to Home Hardware and bought some shovels and snowblowers off the economy.  Something any able bodied individual should be able to do. 

I guess St John's was the home of TMLs farm team so they must have more in common than we thought!  Gigantic waste of money and misuse of military resources. 


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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2020, 01:08:36 »
I've also questioned some of the uses of Canadian military in assistance to civil authority operations.  My opinion is that Canada should have taken better steps to develop "volunteer" civil assistance (read disaster) response organizations such as can be found in many European countries (Germany is a good example that I'm familiar with) or similarly Australia (another good example - one that is stretched pretty thin at the moment).  However, since we have a pretty poor record (even going back to civil defence during wars both hot and cold) with organizations who can provide such "guaranteed" response, we are left with the CF being a primary (or secondary) responder.

As for the snow storm in Newfoundland - well, the optics of deploying to handle snow were put in the eye-rolling category a couple of decades ago by a Toronto mayor.  I don't know the problems caused by snow in that situation and other than speaking to family members who are currently facing the closure of everything

Yep. It’s time for a proper civil defence corps to be structured and equipped for climate events and natural disasters. That means an end to political and media drama queens and getting serious about what life is like in a climate extreme era.  Frankly, I don’t trust the federal government to get it done, so the provinces should just get started with no expectation of anything useful from Ottawa.

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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2020, 01:15:35 »
Yep. It’s time for a proper civil defence corps to be structured and equipped for climate events and natural disasters. That means an end to political and media drama queens and getting serious about what life is like in a climate extreme era.  Frankly, I don’t trust the federal government to get it done, so the provinces should just get started with no expectation of anything useful from Ottawa.

This isn't to say it doesn't suck getting bombed with 100cm of snow because it def does (I've been there).  I can't help but think the only reason we even heard anything about this is because it happened to be in the provincial capital as opposed to somewhere else. 

Sounds like St Johners need to invest in a nice big shovel and possibly a skidoo.  We always loved big snowstorms growing up, nothing beats the fresh powder!



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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2020, 03:27:30 »
They got 5 meters of snow in two days? I think you might want to fact check that  :rofl:

The highest was actually 93cm observed outside St John's, here you go:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6434019/newfoundland-snow-environment-canada/amp/

So, they didn't even break a 100cm and they called in the Military?! 

From what I have heard, CAF members showed up, went to Home Hardware and bought some shovels and snowblowers off the economy.  Something any able bodied individual should be able to do. 

I guess St John's was the home of TMLs farm team so they must have more in common than we thought!  Gigantic waste of money and misuse of military resources.

Gah.  Stupid math on my part.

Regardless, 90 cms of snow in that time frame with the wind they had is still serious enough.  hurrican force winds created 12 foot snowdrifts that you have to carve out rather than shovel out.

Here is a quick run down of record snow storms.  This one seems to be in the higher values on that list. Plus if it is an area that isn’t used to snow like that then it compounds the issue.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/blasts-from-the-past-canada-s-worst-snowstorms-1.1370387

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2020, 03:39:33 »
This isn't to say it doesn't suck getting bombed with 100cm of snow because it def does (I've been there).  I can't help but think the only reason we even heard anything about this is because it happened to be in the provincial capital as opposed to somewhere else. 

Sounds like St Johners need to invest in a nice big shovel and possibly a skidoo.  We always loved big snowstorms growing up, nothing beats the fresh powder!



 Fresh powder is nice unless it gets hardened by hurricane force winds creating 12 foot drifts.  I’m sure everyone has a shovel in Nfld.
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2020, 03:44:42 »
Gah.  Stupid math on my part.

Regardless, 90 cms of snow in that time frame with the wind they had is still serious enough.  hurrican force winds created 12 foot snowdrifts that you have to carve out rather than shovel out.

Here is a quick run down of record snow storms.  This one seems to be in the higher values on that list. Plus if it is an area that isn’t used to snow like that then it compounds the issue.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/blasts-from-the-past-canada-s-worst-snowstorms-1.1370387

It is a very good dumping of snow.  Apologies for being a bit condescending earlier but I'm still not buying that the Military was needed this, at all.  I've  seen worse storms in the past 15-20 years out there.

My guess is if this had been Corner Brook vice St John's, no Military would have been called.  It's  all about that perception of doing something.

One positive is someone might get hitched  :rofl: if Twitter is anything to go by.




Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2020, 09:44:00 »
Quote from: Humphrey Bogart
Apologies for being a bit condescending earlier but I'm still not buying that the Military was needed this, at all.  I've  seen worse storms in the past 15-20 years out there.

My guess is if this had been Corner Brook vice St John's, no Military would have been called.  It's  all about that perception of doing something.
editing for lenght

Inclined to agree.

No doubt there's people suffering there. I've also seen a lot of pictures of people out having fun. Maybe dig your neighbour out before you go snowboarding behind a skidoo.




As well maybe the CAF needs some DART style deployment kits for forest fires, floods and snow storms if that's our new thing.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 09:57:02 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2020, 09:58:32 »
I think I'm inclined to agree with you.

It somewhat reminds me about a debate about using rear party soldiers. A mostly deployed unit gets a call that WO or Capt so and so's wife needs someone to go shovel their drive way so send a bunch of privates from the rear party to go and shovel.

She probably has 500 friends on her Facebook friends list why can't she ask one of them? Or pay a company to do it.

No doubt there's people suffering there. I've also seen a lot of pictures of people out having fun. Maybe dig your neighbour out before you go snowboarding behind a skidoo.


You mean... just like the snowstorm of '96 that buried Victoria, and all the Regular Force sailors who watched - nice and warm -  from their accommodation while the Reservists shoveled out their Canex so they could go get more smokes?  ;)

As I recall from that snow-pocalypse, the major issue was trying to keep the hospitals running. For a couple of days, our 6 wheeled drives vehicles were the only ones that could get through the snow to deliver dialysis patients, do hospital staff changeovers, and get the ambulances through etc.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 10:02:46 by daftandbarmy »
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Re: Operation LENTUS – Domestic Operations 2018 - current [Merged]
« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2020, 12:25:55 »
It is a very good dumping of snow.  Apologies for being a bit condescending earlier but I'm still not buying that the Military was needed this, at all.  I've  seen worse storms in the past 15-20 years out there.

My guess is if this had been Corner Brook vice St John's, no Military would have been called.  It's  all about that perception of doing something.

One positive is someone might get hitched  :rofl: if Twitter is anything to go by.

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