Author Topic: Lost - Missing Kit ( merged )  (Read 68355 times)

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Offline mudgunner49

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Re: lost kit
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2006, 11:45:42 »
Have you filed it yet? I got your e-mail and your balaclava was recovered from the jacket pocket of the IECS jacket you exchanged for your ICE last Thursday. It is on my filing cabinet awaiting your next visit to our location.

We have also recovered 1 ID Card, 2 sets of car keys, 1 pair of socks, a sewing kit and a couple of other lovely items.

You DO take care of folks, don't you???!!! ;)


blake

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: lost kit
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2006, 18:17:15 »
Vern, it was my fleece tuque... not my balaclava!! As for the two sets of MY car keys... I'll be needing those back too.  I was looking at selling those this weekend.

Hmmm...we have recovered Qty 1 each FLEECE BALACLAVA. But seeing as how you are unsure as to whether or not this is yours...tell me:

1) Is there a label with your last 3 and last name in yours? ; and
2) What size is it....

If you can correctly answer these skill testing questions...it's yours.

Seeing as how you were the only pers to contact me at work about an AWOL hat...you may indeed answer them correctly...or not!!  >:D

One set of car keys has now been claimed so you are out of luck with the dealership you were going to set up. About the second set of keys...what is the make? How many keys are on the key ring and what colour/pattern is the key ring? One incorrect answer and you are eliminated from the contest. Sorry. Gotta be mean here because mudgunner49 thinks I'm nice!
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Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: lost kit
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2006, 09:34:57 »
um...the keys were silver in colour..they are for either a import or an export.. obviously..um.. I am not sure if I can describe the keyring to a tee.. but I am on my way over with an X-Large Timmies coffee that I don't feel like drinking anymore.. maybe you can help me? (wink wink)
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Offline gun plumber

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Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2007, 22:37:58 »
Hopefully Vern will jump in here, but anyone else with first hand experience is welcome and appreciated.
The short story is this:
Left my motor gloves in a buddy's car. He went back to Val. My fault, Want to get a new set, take full responsibility for the loss. Do I have to submit a lost kit report if I take full responsibility,or can I just go to the wicket and pay at stores?
Also,am I entitled to a annual issue of close to skin clothing,or am I to bring my holy(not religious,just worn)close to skin kit in for exchange?
Thanks for taking the time to read,and if applicable,replying.
"It is war that shapes peace,and armament that shapes war."-Thomas Fuller

Ref: B-GL-314-008/AM-002
Chapter 6, Section 4, Para 3
The only reason for the existence of a Maintenance Platoon or
Company is the recovery and repair of equipment; thus any defensive
scheme which ties up a large number of technicians for long periods
in non-productive duties is of direct assistance to the enemy.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2007, 22:43:06 »
Officially......you are supposed to fill out the Lost Damage Report and submit it.  If the right recommendations are made on it by your supervisor and CO you may have the items re-issued at no cost to you.  If not, then you will have them replace at a cost to you. 

I don't think there are any "Cash Sales" left in any of the Clothing Stores across the country.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2007, 23:02:48 »
Hopefully Vern will jump in here, but anyone else with first hand experience is welcome and appreciated.
The short story is this:
Left my motor gloves in a buddy's car. He went back to Val. My fault, Want to get a new set, take full responsibility for the loss. Do I have to submit a lost kit report if I take full responsibility,or can I just go to the wicket and pay at stores?
Also,am I entitled to a annual issue of close to skin clothing,or am I to bring my holy(not religious,just worn)close to skin kit in for exchange?
Thanks for taking the time to read,and if applicable,replying.

Fill out the MLR stating "I am a numpty."  >:D

Under "Accept Responsibility for Loss/ Accept Financial Responsibility for Loss." click "Yes." Take the MLR to your WO or above (it is a CTS item and therefore must have your supervisor's signature -minimum rank WO- in the next section regardless of whether you are accepting financial responsibility or not).

Once you've got that signature, go back to clothing stores. It depends on your Base Clothing's specific set-up how they recover the funds from you. Here we Admin deduct from pay, but Gagetown maintains a Standing Advance to recover monies directly right at Clothing Stores. IE a Cash Sales. But, the difference is now you just can't buy anything ouright as "Cash Sales" doesn't exist, but most clothing stores have retained a cash ability to deal with monetary recoveries relating to MLRs.

As for your scivvies; also a local policy. I don't want your gotch back here. We'll just issue your entitlement to next of skin items once per entitlement period. Some things you are entitled to exchange once per year, others every two years. It depends on the item. Some bases want you to bring back the waist bands etc for a one-for-one exchange. Sometimes, it's just easier to bring in the worn item, then there should be ZERO question about them exchanging it for you.

My take is ... I don't need your garbage in my trash cans when you can chuck them at home yourself. You'd have to contact your supporting clothing stores to confirm your local policy.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 23:08:06 by ArmyVern »
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Offline gun plumber

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2007, 23:13:09 »
Thanks Vern and GW,

Will fill out the form tommorow and sit in the corner for an hour with the pointy hat for "losing my mittens".
"It is war that shapes peace,and armament that shapes war."-Thomas Fuller

Ref: B-GL-314-008/AM-002
Chapter 6, Section 4, Para 3
The only reason for the existence of a Maintenance Platoon or
Company is the recovery and repair of equipment; thus any defensive
scheme which ties up a large number of technicians for long periods
in non-productive duties is of direct assistance to the enemy.

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2007, 23:17:40 »
Thanks Vern and GW,

Will fill out the form tommorow and sit in the corner for an hour with the pointy hat for "losing my mittens".

I'm not so sure about that ...

If someone came to see me with an MLR that stated in the "Circumstances of Loss" section:

"I have lost my mittens for I am a numpty."

I'd be laughing so hard (and YOU have never heard me laugh ... it is indeed a treat for the ears) ... I'd sign the damn thing and kick you out of the office right quick.

Vern
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Offline gun plumber

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2007, 23:26:52 »
I'll try to reword it a little bit more eloquently,but that's my back up plan.
"It is war that shapes peace,and armament that shapes war."-Thomas Fuller

Ref: B-GL-314-008/AM-002
Chapter 6, Section 4, Para 3
The only reason for the existence of a Maintenance Platoon or
Company is the recovery and repair of equipment; thus any defensive
scheme which ties up a large number of technicians for long periods
in non-productive duties is of direct assistance to the enemy.

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2007, 10:45:07 »
Don't forget that normally you will not be charged the full amount of kit that has been lost.  There is a range of charges based on the dollar value of the item(s) lost -

38.03 – ADMINISTRATIVE DEDUCTIONS
(1) Any circumstances which may give rise to liability of an officer or non-commissioned member to reimburse the Crown or a non-public property organization under article 38.01 (Liability for Public or Non-public Property), shall be investigated (see Chapter 21 – Summary Investigations and Boards of Inquiry). A statement from the member concerned should be obtained if practical.
(2) Subject to the other provisions of this article, where he is of the opinion that liability under article 38.01 exists and that reimbursement is warranted under the circumstances, an administrative deduction from the pay account of the officer or non-commissioned member concerned in an amount sufficient to make reimbursement in full or in part may be ordered by:
 (a) a commanding officer, except when
 (i) the amount of the proposed deduction exceeds $ 200,
 (ii) the officer or non-commissioned member concerned objects on the grounds that the proposed deduction is unwarranted or excessive, or
 (iii) a loss of or deficiency in public funds is involved;
 (b) an officer commanding a formation designated by the Chief of the Defence Staff or an officer commanding a command, except when
 
(i) the officer or non-commissioned member concerned objects to a deduction exceeding $ 50 when proposed by an officer commanding a formation or $ 100 when proposed by an officer commanding a command, on the grounds that the proposed deduction is unwarranted or excessive, or
 (ii) a loss of or deficiency in public funds is involved; or
 
(c) the Chief of the Defence Staff, except when the officer or non-commissioned member concerned objects to a proposed deduction exceeding $250 on the grounds that the proposed deduction is unwarranted or excessive.
(3) Except as provided in paragraph (8), before any administrative deduction is ordered under paragraph (2) or increased under paragraph (9), the officer or non-commissioned member concerned shall be given the opportunity to object on the grounds that the proposed deduction is unwarranted or excessive.
(4) Where wilfulness is not involved and liability arises under subparagraph (1)(a) or (b) or paragraph (2) of article 38.01 only by reason of negligence on the part of an officer or non-commissioned member:
(a) no administrative deduction shall be imposed if the negligence is of a minor character, being negligence that does not involve recklessness, undue carelessness or intentional commission of a wrongful act or an intentional omission to perform a legal duty; or
 (b) where the negligence is not of a minor character, an administrative deduction ordered under paragraph (2) shall not exceed
 (i) where the amount involved is $ 25 or less the full amount,
 (ii) where the amount involved is more than $ 25 and not more than $ 100, one-half of the amount or $ 25 whichever is the greater,
 (iii) where the amount involved is more than $ 100 and not more than $ 300, one-third of the amount or $ 50 whichever is the greater,
 (iv) where the amount involved is more than $ 300 and not more than $ 500, one-quarter of the amount or $ 100 whichever is the greater, or
 (v) where the amount involved is more than $ 500, one-fifth of the amount or $ 125 whichever is the greater, subject to the limitation that where liability arises out of his negligence in operating a motor vehicle the deduction shall not exceed $ 250.

"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

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Offline geo

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2007, 11:42:18 »
I know 1 person who lost one of his mortar gloves.....
The guys in QM gave him a new pair - no fuss, no muss.
Chimo!

Offline kincanucks

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2007, 11:57:01 »
Vern,

Dumb question but what is an entitlement period?

kincanucks
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2007, 07:29:47 »
Don't forget that normally you will not be charged the full amount of kit that has been lost.  There is a range of charges based on the dollar value of the item(s) lost -

TRUE, but only in cases where the member does NOT accept responsibility at the outset of the MLR process in section 3.

38.03 is currently under review due to the wide range of interpretations being given to it by COs. It is highly misleading as it is applicable only to those members and MLRs where "DO NOT accept financial responsibility" is filled in at section 3 of the MLR process. It wouldn't be misleading if the CO didn't get these MLRs where the member has already "accepted financial responsibility" given to him needlessly. If a member "accepts" financial responsibility at section 3...the CO should NOT see the MLR. The member has admitted personal negligence and it is therefore 100% deductable immediately (with the exception below of the CTS item that a WO or above must then sign at section 4 before a full 100% deduction is made).

For those MLRs where a member has "not accepted" financial resp at section 3, the CoC becomes involved. If the CO determines any negligence on the part of the member and "recommends" a partial dollar value recovery (because COs can only "recommend" partials); then para 3 of your ref becomes applicable and your member must be given an opportunity to either "Accept" or "Not accept" your "recommendation." If he "accepts" the recovery is then made. If he "does NOT accept" ... the MLR then proceeds further up the CoC to the Comd ... who has the authority to "Order" the deduction made if he sees fit. I have seen COs/Comds decide that the member was fully negligent when they've recd an MLR ... and appropriate charges have been laid. An MLR does NOT preclude disciplinary action from being taken in cases of negligence by any pers in the MLRs CoC with appropriate authority to take such action.

Partial dollar values IAW with delegated authority are only applicable in cases where the member "does not accept financial responsibility" for the loss. If the member admits loss is caused by his own actions and accepts financial responsibility at section 3; then the deduction from the member is 100%. The taxpayer (the Crown) does not (and is not supposed to) partially cover the costs of the loss for any member who has admitted their full personal negligence.

38.03 that is reffed at the top of the MLR must be read in conjunction with the MLR processing procedures. If a member fills out an MLR in which he accepts financially responsibility for the loss, the MLR does NOT (and should not) have to go through his CoC (exception being CTS items where the WO or above must then sign at section 4) before recovery. The next step in the official MLR procedures in this case, is the return to clothing stores by the member with the MLR to receive the replacement item and have payment deducted. The CO should never see these MLRs, as he has no authority to have the Crown cover partial costs for an item recovery in which the member has admitted his own personal full negligence and officially "accepted financial responsibility" for it. If the CO is seeing them, his time is being wasted.

It's easiest to say that as soon as "financial responsibility" has been accepted on the MLR ... then the MLR process ends. If the member accepts at section 3 as being financially responsible for it (like is occurring in the case below) then 100% deduction is applicable immediately and doesn't involve the CO. It's done right at clothing at that point in time and that's where the MLR stops.

If he's not "accepting," then it goes through to the CO and if he "accepts" after the COs recommendation ... the MLR process then stops. If he doesn't .... it then goes further to the Comd ... etc etc

This topic comes up quite often during our WGs in Ottawa, as there are many of CSG supervisors who've had to contact a CO to point out that his 'recommendation of a partial deduction' (ie his investigative finding of partial negligence or partial financial responsibility on the members part) was invalid if the member had already self-admittedly fully "accepted financial responsibility" for the loss at section 3. We encounter this situation most often with Units that have their own RQ shop which carries copies of the MLR. For some reason, they neglect the actual MLR processing steps detailed in the ALM007 and have all MLRs sent the whole way through the CoC to the CO, whether they need to be or not.

The only MLRs that should go further up the CoC after the member inputs his details of loss and acceptance/nonacceptance of loss, are the ones where they are "not accepting financial responsibility" at section 3. If they have accepted financial responsibility, they have admitted 100% negligence in their kit-loss ... and are therefore 100% responsible to cover the costs of replacement themselves ... and should now report direct to clothing stores.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 07:42:49 by ArmyVern »
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2007, 13:26:50 »
I have never really picked up on the nuance about accepting responsibility before.  Thanks for clarifying that.
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline ArmySailor

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2007, 14:24:41 »
i am a numpty and somebody walked away with my cadpat shirt while on course...does anyone know the dollar amount that I will have to pay for a replacement of said shirt?

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2007, 17:51:19 »
$56.00 as of my last run-in with an "accounting error" on my records

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2007, 18:05:27 »
i am a numpty and somebody walked away with my cadpat shirt while on course...does anyone know the dollar amount that I will have to pay for a replacement of said shirt?

I'll post it up for you tomorrow when I get back to work.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2007, 08:28:49 »
Because I am neglectful ...  :-[

Here's what I promised to provide Monday ...

As of 6 minutes ago:

Gloves, CWW: $82.00; and

Shirt, Cadpat TW: $56.11
(I know the req for the shirt price was sent via PM, but am answering here in hopes that you will see it...I am currently unable to send PMs).

Vern

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Offline kincanucks

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2007, 08:31:46 »
Vern,

Dumb question but what is an entitlement period?

kincanucks

Vern?  Hello is this thing on?
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- If we are the only intelligent life in the universe, at least there's a finite number of idiots.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2007, 08:45:47 »
Vern?  Hello is this thing on?

Oooops, sorry.

I totally missed your post!!

Entitlement period, depends what the specific item is.

There is a certain Life Cycle for each item of kit that is expected.

IE... for footwear, the entitlement period is 2 years. Best explained by those that wear purchased footwear due to medical problems with feet or special-sized ... We are authorized to purchase them 2 pairs of boots every 2 years.

Ergo, your footwear is expected to last 2 years for exchange purposes.

For BTU, the life cycle rate is 1 year. Can therefore purchase the 4 each entitled once per year.

For stocked items, it also depends upon their assigned 'life cycle' rate (an LCMM vice a Supply detail) eg for OD t-shirts, I believe the 'life cycle' is 2 years; therefore you are only entitled to exchange your 5 tshirts once each 2 years. MOST people however, will not experience any problems if they bring the actual worn-out item into clothing with them to be exchanged.

For velcro nametapes, the life cycle is 3 years and your entitlement is 3 each. Therefore you are entitled to have the Crown purchase you 3 each velcro nametapes no more than once every 3 years.

Does this make sense to you?? I don't know how else to go about explaining it.
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Offline geo

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2007, 08:53:06 »
Makes perfect sense Vern.
Someone has figured out that, on average, people wear out their TShirts over a 2 yr period
but that they go thru their BTU twice as fast - hence 1 yr period (must be the toxic food ;))
Name tags fade in the wash over a 3 yr period.

So long as the people behind the counter use the grey matter they have between the ears (common sense), supply gods need life cycle estimates in order to carry the necessary inventory for the people they serve.
Chimo!

Offline kincanucks

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2007, 09:35:58 »
Oooops, sorry.

I totally missed your post!!

Entitlement period, depends what the specific item is.

There is a certain Life Cycle for each item of kit that is expected.

IE... for footwear, the entitlement period is 2 years. Best explained by those that wear purchased footwear due to medical problems with feet or special-sized ... We are authorized to purchase them 2 pairs of boots every 2 years.

Ergo, your footwear is expected to last 2 years for exchange purposes.

For BTU, the life cycle rate is 1 year. Can therefore purchase the 4 each entitled once per year.

For stocked items, it also depends upon their assigned 'life cycle' rate (an LCMM vice a Supply detail) eg for OD t-shirts, I believe the 'life cycle' is 2 years; therefore you are only entitled to exchange your 5 tshirts once each 2 years. MOST people however, will not experience any problems if they bring the actual worn-out item into clothing with them to be exchanged.

For velcro nametapes, the life cycle is 3 years and your entitlement is 3 each. Therefore you are entitled to have the Crown purchase you 3 each velcro nametapes no more than once every 3 years.

Does this make sense to you?? I don't know how else to go about explaining it.

Thanks
- Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
- If we are the only intelligent life in the universe, at least there's a finite number of idiots.
- Just when you realize life's a *****, it has puppies.

Offline ArmySailor

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2007, 15:01:09 »
Thank you very much...now I know how much to expect to loose next pay cheque ;)

Offline Rheostatic

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2010, 10:23:26 »
Can someone post a link where I can download a MLR form? All I'm getting on the DIN are dead links and I can't find anything in the forms library.

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Re: Lost Kit and annual issue questions
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2010, 10:50:26 »
Can someone post a link where I can download a MLR form? All I'm getting on the DIN are dead links and I can't find anything in the forms library.

They are a locally generated form that is provided by your supporting clothing outlet ...

Here's a link to the basic one; click on "search", type in "MLR", then choose "miscellaneous_loss_report(2)" from the list.

http://dgmssc.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dmpp_apps/SupplyManual/WebHelp/index.htm
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