Author Topic: Recruit school bypass  (Read 39927 times)

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Offline Benoit

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Recruit school bypass
« on: March 22, 2005, 14:25:48 »
Hey guys just woundering how long your basic training is good  for?
God I love it, God help me I do.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2005, 14:44:12 »
If you get out and then decide to get back into the CF within a year, it should still be good.  If you wait two or more years, you will probably have to do it all over again.

GW
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Offline RCR4LIFE

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2005, 15:18:55 »
I was concerned with this same question. If you do BMQ regular force, then it's 5 years. If I'm wrong I'm sorry, but I talked to my recruiter the other day and that's what the good  cpl said. If you did your BMQ in the reserves, I'm not sure but you have to have a certain amount of pte (b) time in in order to get a BMQ bypass.

Offline dan476

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Recruit School By Pass with dependants DIRECTIVE
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2005, 16:51:38 »
Does anyone know the link to it? I have it on paper but no referrence. Could someone get me a link for it.
Thank you.
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Offline Simian Turner

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Re: Recruit School By Pass with dependants DIRECTIVE
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2005, 23:27:49 »
What specifically are you looking for info about moving the dependants to training site or post-QL3 location?  From my experience neither is normally done, but there have been exceptions I'm sure.
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Offline kincanucks

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Re: Recruit School By Pass with dependants DIRECTIVE
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2005, 00:48:21 »
The directive you have been given was developed by the CFRG HQ Comptroller and is based on many references and regulations.  It has been forwarded to the CFRC/Ds on the recruiting network to help to explain to enrollees the entitlements that may or not be available to them.
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Offline Brbond007

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Recruit school bypass
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2011, 10:44:09 »
I need some serious help, I went to BMQ in St.Jean in September of 2008, I graduated after Christmas in 2009! I had no problems and never was recoursed. I was army-infantry, and after grad was posted to Meaford! While I was there I was told my DP1 course would start until Septemeber. Therefore I was on PAT! Even when I was on BMQ I wanted to do an OT. I was told to graduate first and then go through with it. In Meaford I filled my OT papers and was told to report to the MWO. He advised me not to do an OT because it would take to long to complete, and instead release and re apply.

This is what I did, I was there until April 2009 when I released. When I was released they told me I was to wait 6 months to re apply and probably best to re apply in April 2010, this is what I did . I got an offer for Navy Nciop and was set to go in August when I received a call for me to go in and speak with a captain! He informed me that they completed my CRNC for NCIOP , but when I released they never closed my old CRNC. I was told to wait for it to get fixed and I would be going!

I didn't receive my call until the following April 2011. They said everything is good CRNC, etc. We have an offer for you, Recruit school bypass Esquimalt, BC. You get inducted on May 4th and fly out May 5th. I had all my flight information, etc. On May the 3rd, 2 days before I was leaving I received a call for Capt. Stating that there was a problem and PLAR in Ottawa declined my recruit school by pass. He informed me that BMQ expires after 2 years! I missed the enrollment date by 1 month, My understanding was that BMQ was good for 5 years and 10 years if you finished your trade course!

I am now sitting back in St.Jean, awaiting my week 0 course to start May 16th. Every NCO or Officer I speak with and they ask me why I am here! When I explain the situation they are very confused. I need to speak with someone about this and get it taking care of, I really don't want to do Basic all again but if I have to then whatever.

I never finished my QL3 before I released and that is why I apparently have to do it again, I have been trying to search for information on how this all works on QR&Os etc.

Why waist money on me to do this all again, I know how to do everything on this course!
Any information would help. Thanks

Would like to figure this put before May 16th to see if I can get posted to trade instead of BMQ.
Thanks
Bond

Offline ArmyRick

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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2011, 11:08:30 »
Send me a PM. I am curious as to who you are. I was your PL WO (I had over 100 troops at any one time then) in Meaford. I think I need to set you straight...
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Offline LoKe

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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2011, 13:39:34 »
If you successfully completed BMQ you shouldn't have to do it again so soon...

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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2011, 14:51:18 »
Do you know how often experienced members have asked if they would want to do basic again?
or how many would be willing to offer to do so?

Instead of asking why this is a problem?
Consider viewing it through comparing your strengths and areas to improve.
You know what you are strong in and what you want to get better at. Someone, even in basic is always better.
Use that and benefit from it as you progress onward to your trades training.
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Offline cdnleaf

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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2011, 16:02:44 »
Mr. Bond ;D I agree with the above 2 posts.  Timeline, you did a 10 week course/pat platoon for 4 months then got out for 2 years.  PLAR determined that you missed the cut-off by a month; time to get on with it 007.   :2c: the time to have had this dilemma was prior to arriving in Quebec and politely disagree with the statement "I know how to do everything on this course!"   Good luck / get used to the redundancy.

Offline Brbond007

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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2011, 00:55:39 »
I am prepared and ready to do Basic again. I don't have a problem with that. It's the fact that I am being pursued by BMQ staff on base to fight this case. They don't want me here! The have made it clear to me that being here is a waist of time for the military and the school. Im having trouble getting a meal card at St Jean because in the system it lists me as a graduate and not a recruit. Recruits , staff and civilian contractors are the only ones who get one. Everywhere I go on base it has caused a Problem and they want me to take care of it!

Going on course, May 16th and looking forward to meeting new "family". When I said I know everything... I was talking about tests and classes they teach you. I can always touch up on drill, section attack formations, CPR etc.

I just feel they are waisting time and money on myself when someone else could be in my spot.

Anyways, my SGT is sending off another PLAR request, doubt anything will happen. But at this point, I don't care I'm going back on course... I will be able to help others as much as possible and hopefully limit getting "jacked up"..ya right, lol

Offline Pusser

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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2011, 11:47:23 »
Good to hear that your sergeant is now doing something about this.  The implication throughout your previous posts was that folks were expecting YOU to fix this problem.  I'm sorry, but ordinary seaman or privates don't fix these sort of problems.  This is the job of the Divisional System (Chain of Command  for non-navy types).  Not only should your sergeant be involved, but you platoon commander and company commander should be making some phone calls to either send you off to the next phase of training or at least sorting out your meal card!

On the bright side, if you end up doing BMQ again, you have some advantage in that it is not entirely new to you and you now have a chance to do it better, but you can probably be a bit more relaxed (not in effort so much as the ability to understand what is truly important).  Your coursemates will look up to you as a mentor.

On the down side, the staff will expect more from you.  They too will see you as a mentor and expect you to help and guide the others.

Finally, without passing judgement on the OP, there are a few lessons learned here:

1) Don't accept an occupation on enrollment with the idea that you'll be able to re-muster later.  Be sure of the choices you make.

2) If you decide after the fact that your assigned occupation simply isn't right, I question the wisdom of releasing in order to re-apply.  An Occupational Transfer can take a long time, but so does re-applying.  However, with an OT, at least you're still employed and drawing a paycheque.
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Offline Jhunt

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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2011, 14:01:40 »
Hey let me know what your outcome is, you sound like you are going through the same thing I am...or will be. I was in just over a year(whole time i was on PRETC)  and released for family reasons. I passed BMQ and got the top athlete award. I am going back in however they are saying new criteria came out in 2010 saying unless you are QL3 you have to redo basic. I am not looking forward to it

Offline ArmyRick

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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2011, 15:42:22 »
Bond, PM to follow.
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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2011, 16:06:34 »
Look at it this way, you're back in the forces in a trade you wanted. BMQ is 14 weeks, just do it again and have fun with it. After that on to the Fleet School and the rest of your career.


Unacceptable. This member should not have had to undertake BMQ once they've passed. Its like having to take a leadership course again once you've passed it.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. Particularly when I see pers out five years, and back in with no problems.
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Offline Jhunt

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Re: Graduated BMQ 2 years ago... Doing it again!
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2011, 20:02:38 »
The directive came from CDA saying anyone prior to 2010 would have to redo basic unless QL3 Quaified. Not many recruit centers are aware. I did find out however CDA has given CFRC the authority to bypass people. Did they write RSBP on your application?

Offline Billard

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Recruit school bypass
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2013, 11:17:57 »
I'm in the PRes as a Combat Engineer with a CT in for RegF (Aircraft Structure Tech) and I just had to update my physical fitness test. Now I'm waiting again. I believe the trade opens up in April so hopefully I hear from them soon.

So far with the PRes I have BMQ and BMQ-Land (Soldiers Qualifications) so a total of 2 months of course. I understand that Basic in the Regular Force is roughly 3 months in duration so will they make me do BMQ again in Saint Jean? I wont mind if I do because it would all be mostly a review of what I've learned already and it would be good to maybe get a refresher. The only reason I don't want to retake it is so I can get going with my trades course.

Thanks!

Offline Haggis

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Re: Will I have to redo BMQ?
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2013, 12:03:20 »
Much of your answer depends on how long you've been in the P Res.

CDA Directive 01/12 Annex A sets the validity period for NCMPD courses.  For example, if you have completed P Res Army BMQ and BMQ (Land)  and have less than 12 months of qualifying service (defined by CBI 204.015(2)) your qualificaton remains valid for 24 months and you are eligible to be granted the CF BMQ.

CDA Directive 01/12 Annex A is only available through the DWAN.  PM me if you want the link.

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Offline MaritimeMogul

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Re: Will I have to redo BMQ?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 17:38:35 »
Im more or less in the same situation. I put a CT in from my P Res Army unit, to an RMS Clerk Reg Force (Navy). My interview is next week and then I should receive an offer from my broker quick. I have completed my BMQ/BMQ (L) and my controlled goods awareness... I have been in my unit for 13 months... Any idea if I should get the bypass?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Will I have to redo BMQ?
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2013, 17:49:28 »
Im more or less in the same situation. I put a CT in from my P Res Army unit, to an RMS Clerk Reg Force (Navy). My interview is next week and then I should receive an offer from my broker quick. I have completed my BMQ/BMQ (L) and my controlled goods awareness... I have been in my unit for 13 months... Any idea if I should get the bypass?

As a future RMS clerk, I suggest you might want to look up the references yourself - the practice will serve you very well.
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Offline MaritimeMogul

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Re: Will I have to redo BMQ?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2013, 18:13:48 »
From my understanding. I think that if I have BMQ and BMQ(L), I should get the recruit school bypass. I guess we will see when I get my offer in about 2 weeks time after my interview next week.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Will I have to redo BMQ?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2013, 18:20:01 »
From my understanding. I think ....
I guess you missed his suggestion. As an RMS Clerk, sailors and ship's officers will be coming to you with administrative questions; perhaps practising now will be more beneficial than telling them, "I dunno, go ask some strangers on Milnet.ca"
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Will I have to redo BMQ?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2013, 18:30:20 »
I guess you missed his suggestion. As an RMS Clerk, sailors and ship's officers will be coming to you with administrative questions; perhaps practising now will be more beneficial than telling them, "I dunno, go ask some strangers on Milnet.ca. But watch out for that Journeyman character - he's cranky."

FTFY

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Offline MaritimeMogul

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Re: Will I have to redo BMQ?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2013, 18:40:16 »
Trust me, Im doing as much research as I can. I guess Im just trying to find out for my own sanity.

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Re: Will I have to redo BMQ?
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2013, 14:59:27 »
Im more or less in the same situation. I put a CT in from my P Res Army unit, to an RMS Clerk Reg Force (Navy). My interview is next week and then I should receive an offer from my broker quick. I have completed my BMQ/BMQ (L) and my controlled goods awareness... I have been in my unit for 13 months... Any idea if I should get the bypass?

How 'quick' is quick for an expected offer?

Offline pross182

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Re: Will I have to redo BMQ?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2013, 10:19:53 »
Just going from personal experience, I didn't have to. I went from Armoured reserves to Armoured reg force with a 4 year gap in between and they put me on my DP1. They initially said I was going to be going to CFLRS but changed their minds I guess.

Offline Kfras23

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2014, 13:44:26 »
Hi I joined the military and did my Basic Training. I released a while back for personal reasons I was just wondering how long I have to rejoin before my basic training is considered expired?

Offline kratz

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2014, 14:14:58 »
There is no guaranteed timeline because standards / skills change.

Generally speaking, if the BMQ standards have not changed since release,
after the mandatory PLAR (due to prior service) your BMQ should be valid for approximately three years.

Note: trades (MOC) trained members have about five years, depending on the above.
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Offline Kfras23

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Recruit school bypass
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2014, 14:39:02 »
Hi I released in 2011 I was fully trained and with the Royal Canadian Dragoons and I Voluntarily released. I re applied in 2013 but got held up and canceled. I was wondering how long do I have before I would have to redo basic training? Not that redoing basic would stop me from coming back but I would just like to know as I submitted my application and requested recruit school bypass and if I have chosen a different trade will that affect that in anyway?

Offline Kfras23

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2014, 15:18:15 »
Well actually they have but they seem easier than when I did it. I was told by a buddy of mine that is also rejoining that  it's 5 years he kind of confused me though so I figured I would ask. I also forgot to mention that I was all done my trades training as well.

Offline Arty39

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2014, 15:18:52 »
I've heard 5 years.

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2014, 15:28:46 »
Well I guess I will find out when they contact me again. Thanks though guys. If I do have to redo it it won't stop me.

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Re: Recruit school bypass?
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2014, 13:27:36 »
Good day,

A PLAR is used to assess all prior education and qualifications including courses taken by prior serving members who are applying for reenlistment into the Canadian Armed Forces related to the chosen occupation on the current application. Courses change over time and a PLAR is used to determine what knowledge gained from previous qualifications match the current requirements of the training for the occupation and may result in the granting of some qualifications towards the current courses/occupation standards.

For example if you've already done a basic military qualification course and the course has not changed then an individual would be granted that qualification and not have to redo the course if they are re-enrolled.
Forces.ca

Offline Gcnav

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Recruit school bypass
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2016, 15:13:35 »
Hi

I just got a call saying I was accepted as a combat engineer with recruit school bypass.

Does this mean I am bypassing both bmq and sq or just bmq?

During trade school do I stay on base on course like bmq and sq or can I get my own place?  How long before my girlfriend and daughter Can Move around with me? It it possible to be near them or live with them during trade school?

Thanks

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Offline mariomike

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Re: Recruit school bypass
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2016, 15:19:51 »
I just got a call saying I was accepted as a combat engineer with recruit school bypass.

Does this mean I am bypassing both bmq and sq or just bmq?

From Ask a CAF Recruiter,

Recruit school bypass?
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=117016.0




« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 15:26:33 by mariomike »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Recruit school bypass
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2016, 16:02:29 »
Hi

I just got a call saying I was accepted as a combat engineer with recruit school bypass.

Does this mean I am bypassing both bmq and sq or just bmq

Likely just BMQ.  BMQ-L/SQ isn't taught at CFLRS right?  Makes sense.

Quote
During trade school do I stay on base on course like bmq and sq or can I get my own place?

CFSME, I'll wager a guess that you will live-in during your 3s.  Unless the world has really changed in the cbt arms.

Quote
  How long before my girlfriend and daughter Can Move around with me?

Normally, that is after you are completed your trg (QL3) and posted to your first unit.

Quote
It it possible to be near them or live with them during trade school?

No move at public expense and they'd have to pay their own way/rent, the whole sha-bang.  You have no idea what time you'd have off to actually spend with them.  If they aren't from close to the CFB Gagetown area, I personally would recommend they stay close to home while you are in your QL3 trg.  They'd be in a new area, with no family support and you will be very busy most of the time and not even likely allowed to live with them, right?

And you would be able to focus on your course without clock-watching thinking about 'going home' all the time.

Quote
Thanks

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No sweat.  I'd bet someone who is more familiar with current policies at CFSME will add to my  :2c:.

Good luck on your course!
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Re: Recruit school bypass
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2016, 07:20:40 »
Hi

I just got a call saying I was accepted as a combat engineer with recruit school bypass.

Does this mean I am bypassing both bmq and sq or just bmq? No you will do BMQ-L either at 5 Div TC or some other location

During trade school do I stay on base on course like bmq and sq or can I get my own place?  How long before my girlfriend and daughter Can Move around with me? It it possible to be near them or live with them during trade school? You will first be placed in HOLDFAST TP and will have to live in IIRC and during your trades course you will be required to live in the shacks with the rest of the course

Thanks

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Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2016, 15:55:34 »
Greetings:

How many times have you heard of an individual completing basic training? 3, 4, 5 +? Just curious. Thanks in advance.


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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2016, 16:11:31 »
Theoretical limit?

Joins PRes at 16, CT to RegF at 18 needs to redo BMQ.
Gets out after BE, re-enrolls 10 years later, BMQ again.

Probably 3? at 4 the CFRC should be not allowing them back in.

Offline mariomike

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2016, 16:28:00 »
Saw this from way back in 2006. Doesn't say how many BMQ's, but it may help,

Unfortunately, a person could release and reapply as many times as they want as there is no restriction on either.

Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2016, 16:30:06 »
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 16:34:31 by RocketRichard »

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2016, 16:30:34 »
Saw this from way back in 2006. Doesn't say how many BMQ's, but it may help,
True. Thanks MM.


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Offline mariomike

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2016, 16:51:27 »

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2016, 18:00:02 »
Doesn't make much sense, BMQ qual if good for 10 years post-release....
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2016, 18:44:22 »
Doesn't make much sense, BMQ qual if good for 10 years post-release....
I do believe BMQ qual is only good for 5 years. We need to start thinking outside the box on this one.


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Offline mariomike

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2016, 19:09:26 »
Doesn't make much sense, BMQ qual if good for 10 years post-release....

I do believe BMQ qual is only good for 5 years.



How long Is BMQ good for 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=28624.0

If you get out and then decide to get back into the CF within a year, it should still be good.  If you wait two or more years, you will probably have to do it all over again.

GW

If you do BMQ regular force, then it's 5 years.

From 2011,

He informed me that BMQ expires after 2 years! I missed the enrollment date by 1 month, My understanding was that BMQ was good for 5 years and 10 years if you finished your trade course!

From 2012,

I'm not sure how long BMQ is good for, I heard 5 years, then 10 years. 

DAA would know.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 19:52:36 by mariomike »

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2016, 19:23:01 »
I do believe BMQ qual is only good for 5 years. We need to start thinking outside the box on this one.


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Come to think of it, that's sounds more correct.

My father, back in the late 80's, released for a year and got back in. The CFRC gave him a recruit school bypass... Only to find himself back in Cornwallis again.

We've had a few fellas come in at the 2 year and 5 year mark and were given all their qualifications back. No redos.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2016, 19:51:46 »
We are going to be hurting for experience and leadership when the boomers start retiring.  When we have former MCpl's and above attempt to re enroll and they've been out longer than 5 years and they have to do basic in the reg force or reserve that is an issue.  I would argue that someone who has done their CLC/JLC/PLQ etc could do a 'refresher' course thus opening up spots for new recruits and getting the experienced people into the training system to re qualify (if needed) in their trades or straight into a unit.  Yes, I know there are standards but essentially not much has changed in basic training since as far back as the 80's.

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2016, 19:57:42 »
We are going to be hurting for experience and leadership when the boomers start retiring. 

The "Boomers" started retiring years ago. Their current age range is 70 - 52.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/baby-boomers-say-age-gives-them-office-cred/
"born between 1946 and 1964"

Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2016, 20:08:18 »
The "Boomers" started retiring years ago. Their current age range is 70 - 52.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/baby-boomers-say-age-gives-them-office-cred/
"born between 1946 and 1964"

Agreed but with the unprecedented operational tempo in the past 2 decades in combination with CRA of Baby Boomers and Gen X the CAF will be losing many Warrant Officers, Majors and above.   See articles in the Globe.

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2016, 20:10:38 »
Agreed but with the unprecedented operational tempo in the past 2 decades in combination with CRA of Baby Boomers and Gen X the CAF will be losing many Warrant Officers, Majors and above.   See articles in the Globe.

I was referring to the "Boomers", as their average age is now 61.  :)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 20:30:33 by mariomike »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2016, 20:16:13 »
We are going to be hurting for experience and leadership when the boomers start retiring.  When we have former MCpl's and above attempt to re enroll and they've been out longer than 5 years and they have to do basic in the reg force or reserve that is an issue.  I would argue that someone who has done their CLC/JLC/PLQ etc could do a 'refresher' course thus opening up spots for new recruits and getting the experienced people into the training system to re qualify (if needed) in their trades or straight into a unit.  Yes, I know there are standards but essentially not much has changed in basic training since as far back as the 80's.

Do you know how much changes in five (5) years?

Whole families of vehicles may have changed.
Weapons may have been replace by newer ones.
Communications systems may have become obsolete and replaced.
Right now the Pay System is being converted, so Clerks who have been gone for over five years will have no clue what they would be doing if they were brought back in as their former selves.  Would you want one of them screwing you out of your pay?

So much can change in five (5) years that the person you are talking about may be "obsolete" and so far out of touch with what that CAF is today that they WILL require retraining from the very beginning.....BASIC.

So.....If you have absolutely NO CLUE of what you are talking about, don't be making statements on those subjects.



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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2016, 20:31:31 »
Do you know how much changes in five (5) years?

Whole families of vehicles may have changed.
Weapons may have been replace by newer ones.
Communications systems may have become obsolete and replaced.
Right now the Pay System is being converted, so Clerks who have been gone for over five years will have no clue what they would be doing if they were brought back in as their former selves.  Would you want one of them screwing you out of your pay?

So much can change in five (5) years that the person you are talking about may be "obsolete" and so far out of touch with what that CAF is today that they WILL require retraining from the very beginning.....BASIC.

So.....If you have absolutely NO CLUE of what you are talking about, don't be making statements on those subjects.


Vehicles... Driver Wheeled;  not BMQ.
Comms... ATCIS and various comes courses; not BMQ.
Weapons... Sure, but I easily learned a new weapons system in 3 days through unit training.

Pay system... That would also not be BMQ training... It would be Trades.

Therefore, he's not far off and you easily give someone a Recruit School Bypass if they've been out 5 years... Hell even 10.

Drill, Dress, rank systems etc. Doesn't change much even over 50 years, much less over 5.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2016, 20:34:08 »

Vehicles... Driver Wheeled;  not BMQ.
Comms... ATCIS and various comes courses; not BMQ.
Weapons... Sure, but I easily learned a new weapons system in 3 days through unit training.

Pay system... That would also not be BMQ training... It would be Trades.

Therefore, he's not far off and you easily give someone a Recruit School Bypass if they've been out 5 years... Hell even 10.

Drill, Dress, rank systems etc. Doesn't change much even over 50 years, much less over 5.

Are you a Recruiter, or ever been a Recruiter?

If not then you don't have a clue.....Sorry.
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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2016, 20:52:39 »
A rifle is a rifle, driving is driving, nav is nav.

The best thing they can do is do a skills assessment on the individual for the level they want to come back as and for the trade.

As for whole weapons and computer systems (Pay) being different. I bet after a person has been out for 5 or more years they also bring a totally different level of skills back to the table.

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2016, 20:55:01 »
RANK?

How many years have now passed since we brought in the new rank with Pips and Crowns, etc.?

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Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2016, 21:02:51 »
Do you know how much changes in five (5) years?

Whole families of vehicles may have changed.
Weapons may have been replace by newer ones.
Communications systems may have become obsolete and replaced.
Right now the Pay System is being converted, so Clerks who have been gone for over five years will have no clue what they would be doing if they were brought back in as their former selves.  Would you want one of them screwing you out of your pay?

So much can change in five (5) years that the person you are talking about may be "obsolete" and so far out of touch with what that CAF is today that they WILL require retraining from the very beginning.....BASIC.

So.....If you have absolutely NO CLUE of what you are talking about, don't be making statements on those subjects.

I have many 'CLUES' regarding Basic of what I'm talking about. This is from a recruiting perspective and from personal experience.  I have the course syllabi from the late 80's, late 90's and as recent as this summer and believe me (or not as it appears you choose to do) not much has significantly changed except for Op Honour.  I can personally attest to this.

Training during the Regular Forces BMQ includes:

Drill, dress and discipline;
Deportment;
First aid and cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR);
Weapons handling (using in-service rifle);
Physical training;
Land navigation;
Field training;
Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) defence force protection operations;
CAF regulations and orders;
Communication; and
Military history and rank structure.

 I pose this question: Can you Mr. Wallace?  Have you done basic in a few different decades? Are you presently in the military? Are you involved in recruiting?  My original point is that in my opinion members who have been out for over 5 years (especially those who have done leadership training)  should be able to do a refresher course on an as needed basis.

The comment "So.....If you have absolutely NO CLUE of what you are talking about, don't be making statements on those subjects." is baseless and without merit. I will not stoop to insult you as there is no point in that.

PS See Lunchmeat and CTD's comments.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2016, 21:04:39 »
A rifle is a rifle, driving is driving, nav is nav.

The best thing they can do is do a skills assessment on the individual for the level they want to come back as and for the trade.

As for whole weapons and computer systems (Pay) being different. I bet after a person has been out for 5 or more years they also bring a totally different level of skills back to the table.

So?  You are a Recruiter as well?  Or, perhaps, and instructor on any of the topics you just mentioned? 

A FN C1 and C2 were not C-7 or C-8 rifles.  The C-5 GPMG is not a C-6, nor a C-9.  Sorry, but I will call BS on a rifle is a rifle.  Same goes for driving different vehicles.  Nav may change very little, but so many didn't learn to Nav in the first place, nor are many familiar with changes to Nav Systems being used.  Comms...Skill fade in using current Comms equipment starts within days of non-use.

Again, I will say it; if you are not involved in Recruiting, or the Training System, your input is not required and only muddies the waters.
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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2016, 21:26:18 »
Training during the Regular Forces BMQ includes:

Drill, dress and discipline; (Skillfade)
Deportment; (no change)
First aid and cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR); (3 year expiry)
Weapons handling (using in-service rifle); (qual every year)
Physical training; (joke at BMQ anyways)
Land navigation; (skill fade)
Field training; (new TTPs, skill fade)
Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) defence force protection operations; (has changed since the early 2000s when I did it)
CAF regulations and orders; (constantly evolving)
Communication; and (highly technical skill fade)
Military history and rank structure. (we just changed our ranks)

 I pose this question: Can you Mr. Wallace?  Have you done basic in a few different decades? Are you presently in the military? Are you involved in recruiting?  My original point is that in my opinion members who have been out for over 5 years (especially those who have done leadership training)  should be able to do a refresher course on an as needed basis.

Threw a couple comments on your list, its not cut and dry with "Just give him BMQ bypass". As well, I think I've only seen people have to redo if they've been out more than 10 years, or insufficient reserve time to write off BMQ.

Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2016, 21:27:27 »
So?  You are a Recruiter as well?  Or, perhaps, and instructor on any of the topics you just mentioned? 

A FN C1 and C2 were not C-7 or C-8 rifles.  The C-5 GPMG is not a C-6, nor a C-9.  Sorry, but I will call BS on a rifle is a rifle.  Same goes for driving different vehicles.  Nav may change very little, but so many didn't learn to Nav in the first place, nor are many familiar with changes to Nav Systems being used.  Comms...Skill fade in using current Comms equipment starts within days of non-use.

Again, I will say it; if you are not involved in Recruiting, or the Training System, your input is not required and only muddies the waters.

PM sent

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2016, 21:42:43 »
So?  You are a Recruiter as well?  Or, perhaps, and instructor on any of the topics you just mentioned? 

A FN C1 and C2 were not C-7 or C-8 rifles.  The C-5 GPMG is not a C-6, nor a C-9.  Sorry, but I will call BS on a rifle is a rifle.  Same goes for driving different vehicles.  Nav may change very little, but so many didn't learn to Nav in the first place, nor are many familiar with changes to Nav Systems being used.  Comms...Skill fade in using current Comms equipment starts within days of non-use.

Again, I will say it; if you are not involved in Recruiting, or the Training System, your input is not required and only muddies the waters.

Since the early 2000's we have not had a change in weapons systems or drill.

Pips and Crowns aside, our ranks have not changed; the insignia has. That doesn't take 14 weeks to learn.

By your logic George, we shouldn't be handing out Recruit School bypasses to ANYONE with prior service that have been out for more than a year. Do you know how many senior members of my unit and trade would not be here today with the invaluable skills and experience they have, if they were told they had to redo Basic training again?

We took them through a 1-day refresher on drill, nav, Weapons; and even then we didn't need to. A repetitive action becomes habit, and a habit doesn't usually go away.

I don't need to be a recruiter to know that little has changed in the last 5-10 years and that useful Comms is not taught on Basic, driving is not taught on basic, and nor is the Clerk's pay system.

I've had better training at the unit level than I did through BMQ. It's the reason we have IBTS, we don't need to be sending everyone back through Basic Training again.

And yes, with the exception of Driving, I teach all of the above. Nav, Comms, Drill, Weapons.

Edit: for spelling
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 21:48:42 by LunchMeat »
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2016, 22:12:09 »
Actually, if the OP had even bothered to look up this question, we would not be having this discussion.  The answers have been given in that thread. 

The facts about Recruit School By Pass have nothing to do with previous Trades or PLQ (CLC, or whatever other name it was called by over the years)  Just because you had a PLQ, doesn't give you a Recruit School By Pass.  Having to redo Basic does not necessarily mean you have lost those Quals.  Those Quals would be evaluated in a PLAR and credited if deemed current to the candidate.  If the candidate was out for two to five years, they usually were granted a Recruit School By Pass.  Over five years, and definitely over ten, they would normally have to redo Recruit School to catch up to any changes over those years; but would also be able to retain previous Quals according to the results of the PLAR.

As an Instructor, you will know that the CTPs are in constant flux, some changing annually, some almost daily.  The equipment that is used is also changing...Do you still use a PLGR to navigate?  What changes have been made to it?  CANOPS Code or CANFORNA Code will only bring questioning looks from anyone who has less than 15 years in.  Drill, may have remained the same for you since you joined, but don't count on it not changing with a new weapon.  Weapons Drills have changed several times over the years, on the same weapon, with changes to/mods to that weapon.  Field Craft has changed.  All Drills that you can name, have with time and changes to equipment, technology, delivery systems, detection systems, and a whole list of other changes depending on what the Drill is for, will result in new Drills or modification of current Drills.   

DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2016, 22:27:55 »

Vehicles... Driver Wheeled;  not BMQ.
Comms... ATCIS and various comes courses; not BMQ.
Weapons... Sure, but I easily learned a new weapons system in 3 days through unit training.

Pay system... That would also not be BMQ training... It would be Trades.

Therefore, he's not far off and you easily give someone a Recruit School Bypass if they've been out 5 years... Hell even 10.

Drill, Dress, rank systems etc. Doesn't change much even over 50 years, much less over 5.

ALL military skills are perishable.  Discipline a la military stype included.  PT abilities included.

Sorry, I have to agree with the longer than 5 years, back thru basic you go.  5 years as a civie and...well you're a civie again, previous service or not.
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline DAA

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2016, 08:44:13 »
RSBP is determined/granted by using the Leadership Qualification Matrix (ie; CDA 12/01 or something like that) which is available on the CDA Website (DWAN Only - search for CDA Leadership Qualification Matrix PLAR).

Summed up as.... non-OFP qualified, BMQ is valid based on time served (ie; 14 months in the CAF, BMQ is valid for 14 months post release), OFP qualified (post 2006ish), BMQ is valid for life.

Whilst the matrix does use the term "valid for life", applicants rejoining the CAF at anytime will be subject to an RSBP PLAR which will determine their status prior to being made an offer of enrolment.  General rule of thumb for OFP qualified (ie; DP1/QL3 completed), out for less than 5 years, the qual will be granted.  Out for between 5-10 years, it's a coin toss and out for more than 10 years, start preparing to redo Basic Training.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2016, 19:02:07 »
Is the OFP part actually trade-related OFP and  not some generic "initial Occ trg"?  Example my trade OFP is QL5 Wings grade at this point and will likely be moving to post "aircraft specific qualification" (MOAT, OTU) in the relatively near future.
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline DAA

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #66 on: August 09, 2016, 09:37:56 »
Is the OFP part actually trade-related OFP and  not some generic "initial Occ trg"?  Example my trade OFP is QL5 Wings grade at this point and will likely be moving to post "aircraft specific qualification" (MOAT, OTU) in the relatively near future.

OFP (Operationally Functional Point) is strictly trade related.  OFP is usually considered as post QL3 or DP1 qualified.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 11:36:28 by DAA »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2016, 10:01:54 »
OFP (Occupation Functional Point) is strictly trade related.  OFP is always considered as QL3 or DP1 qualified.

Operationally Functional Point now, isn't it?   ;D

OFP is not always defined as QL3 or DP1 though.  For my trade, OFP is QL5, our IAQC (Intermediate AESOP Qual Course).  Before 2009, OFP was MOAT (for Aurora types) or OTU (for MH types) and there is serious discussion about moving OFP back to post MOAT/OTU.  A newly winged AESOP out of Winnipeg shows up to their Sqn, they are still unqual'd on their actual airframe and therefore not 'operationally functional'.

Seems like not everyone is singing from the same song sheet?
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline DAA

    Administration is not an exact science..

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Re: BMQ / BMOQ Expiry date? [MERGED]
« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2016, 11:37:04 »
Operationally Functional Point now, isn't it?   ;D

OFP is not always defined as QL3 or DP1 though.  For my trade, OFP is QL5, our IAQC (Intermediate AESOP Qual Course).  Before 2009, OFP was MOAT (for Aurora types) or OTU (for MH types) and there is serious discussion about moving OFP back to post MOAT/OTU.  A newly winged AESOP out of Winnipeg shows up to their Sqn, they are still unqual'd on their actual airframe and therefore not 'operationally functional'.

Seems like not everyone is singing from the same song sheet?

We should be but sometimes their are varying "interpretations" of what OFP actually is. 

DAOD 5031-8 ( http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5031-8.page )

7.1 Note – CM progresses from DP 1 to DP 2 upon achieving the applicable OFP. The OFP occurs when an NCM completes all qualifications required for first employment in the military occupation. At that point, an NCM is posted off the basic training list to a trained effective strength position. The OFP for each military occupation is contained in the military occupation specification maintained by the DPGR.
Got a question that you're afraid to ask online?  PM me!  I don't bite........

Offline SigMar

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Re: Getting Back In/Re-enrolling Mega Thread
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2018, 23:07:36 »
Hi guys, a specific question about recruit school bypass.

I have been out for 5 years. I was out in march of 2013 and have re-applied in july 2018.

At the time of release from the reserves I had been in for just under 10 years and went as far as becoming a QL5 qualified sig op.

What are the chances of successfully getting an RSBP for re-enlistment just months over 5 years?

5 years, 3 months to be exact on the time of release to submitting new application. Re-enlisting as a Nav Res Mar Tech.

Thanks for the help.

Offline SigMar

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Re: Getting Back In/Re-enrolling Mega Thread
« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2018, 11:35:49 »
Since this is for the reserves I work full time, with a family and am simply trying to formulate a plan here on things that will need to be planned long in advance. Such as daycare, looking at shift options and being respectful to my employer.

DAOD 5031-1, Canadian Forces Military Equivalencies Program, doesn't exactly go over the exact process for RSBP.

I’ll ask the question re-worded as to be even more specific.

Has anyone, who has personal experience with this level of recruiting, seen situations in the reserves recently, whereby an individual was granted RSBP being more than 5 years released?

Thank you for your help in advance.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 12:40:39 by SigMar »

Offline Gcnav

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Re: Recruit school bypass
« Reply #71 on: October 02, 2018, 20:34:13 »
Since this is for the reserves I work full time, with a family and am simply trying to formulate a plan here on things that will need to be planned long in advance. Such as daycare, looking at shift options and being respectful to my employer.

DAOD 5031-1, Canadian Forces Military Equivalencies Program, doesn't exactly go over the exact process for RSBP.

I’ll ask the question re-worded as to be even more specific.

Has anyone, who has personal experience with this level of recruiting, seen situations in the reserves recently, whereby an individual was granted RSBP being more than 5 years released?

Thank you for your help in advance.

I never had near your amount of experience in the reserves, it was only in a couple years and I wasn't even QL3 qualified when I released, just BMQ and BMQ-Land (formerly SQ). When I reapplied 9 years later (this year), into a different trade and element (Navy) in the Reg Force I was still granted a RSBP. I\'m currently sitting in PAT Platoon and there are a number of use who re-enlisted, two after 20 years and 12 years, they were also bypassed from Basic.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 20:37:14 by Gcnav »

Offline SigMar

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Re: Recruit school bypass
« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2018, 00:12:36 »
Thank you for the info. That's really good to hear.

Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: Recruit school bypass
« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2018, 07:36:07 »
I never had near your amount of experience in the reserves, it was only in a couple years and I wasn't even QL3 qualified when I released, just BMQ and BMQ-Land (formerly SQ). When I reapplied 9 years later (this year), into a different trade and element (Navy) in the Reg Force I was still granted a RSBP. I\'m currently sitting in PAT Platoon and there are a number of use who re-enlisted, two after 20 years and 12 years, they were also bypassed from Basic.
Interesting. I know individual who was REG force and PRes. Released as a MCpl and had to do BMQ after being out for 15 years. As someone who did basic in the early 90’s and recently instructed on a BMQ almost nothing has changed. Certainly no need for an individual to redo the whole course.


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