Topic: Designated Marksman

[Fishbone Jones]

I had an incident with a black powder gun that left me with a massive flinch. Two weeks and a thousand or so rounds of .22 cured it. Besides .22's are just plain fun, especially with and unlimited supply of crows and whistledogs around.

[KablooeyintheWest]

 

For my own value - Dont think anything can replace real rounds down range   DCRA Service Rifle and TR shooting will give the shooter a world of experience - for .mil shooters consider the F Class category of TR   300-900m events.

Anyone mind deciphering: DCRA? TR? .mil? f class category?
Are they shooting teams that one can join?

[KevinB]

DCRA - Dominion of Canada Rifle Association - they host service rifle, TR (Target Rifle : iron sight off the elbows bolt gun matches from 300m - 900m) F Class a derivative of TR using optics and bipod/rests.

 The way that TR and F Class work is a great way for a shooter to get into long rnage shooting - as 1) there are older experienced shooters there to give tips etc. on shooting at distance, wind, mirage etc. 2) the indicated targets allow the shooter to log their rounds and learn from the experience (any one can launch rounds down range - but there is zero value unless you learn from it)

 Service Rifle is the 12 standard matches
200m (App, Snap, Rap, Rundown 200-100m)
300m (App, Snap, Rap, Rundown 300-200m)
500m (App, Snap, Rap, Rundown 500-400-300-200-100)

App: Application Shoot - Prone 10rds for score slow fire each round indicated + 2 sighters)
Snap: Snap Shoot - different postion dependant upon Range (Kneeling,Sitting or Prone) 1rd per exposure at the 200&500m and 2rds at the 300m + 2 sighters indicated prior to begining scored part of match
Rap: Rapid 10rds (2x 5rds mags in 30sec) +2 sighters
Rundown: self explanatory for the 200 and 300m events - as you run down to the next 100m berm and shoot the match (10rds - no sighters)
 500m Rundown - 2rds prone at 500m, run to 400m 2rds Sitting run to 300m 2rds prone, run to 200m 2rds kneeling, run to 100m 2rds standing.
 All rundowns are timed.

www.dcra.ca for more info.

Get out and shoot!

[KablooeyintheWest]

Awesome!
Thanks for that

[BushmasterBob]

I noticed a few people saying to buying a AR15.  From what I read, the original poster doesn't have his PAL yet.  Is the AR15 not a prohibited firearm? which he will not be able to purchase.  Is there some sort of leniency for acquiring this firearm for being enlisted in the military?  Thanks

[Ex-Dragoon]

I noticed a few people saying to buying a AR15.  From what I read, the original poster doesn't have his PAL yet.  Is the AR15 not a prohibited firearm? which he will not be able to purchase.  Is there some sort of leniency for acquiring this firearm for being enlisted in the military?  Thanks

No you have to pay your money and take the course like everyone else....

[BushmasterBob]

I have my PAL already for non-restricted.  I thought that you cannot get a PAL for prohibited firearms anymore?

[Future Unknown]

AR-15 is restircted
you need a R-Pal to purchase.

[BushmasterBob]

I take it there are different versions of the AR15.  In another thread I was reading, it must have a 5 rnd mag, semi-auto, is there any length restrictions or anything elso for them to be a restricted firearm vs prohibited?  Thanks

[Future Unknown]

no ar-15 is prohibited. The Fully automatic variant of the AR-15 is Prohitied, but all AR-15's are Semi auto.
KevinB is our Resident Gunnut.
I would suggest going over to Canadiangunnutz.com for your gun related questions.
All semi-auto weapons must have pinned mags to ensure it can only hold 5 rounds.
theres no length restrictions other than it needs a barrel over 4 inches long. and it can only be fired on a restricted range, there expensive usually for a decent new one.

[PPCLI Guy]

In a way there are 'Designated Marksmen', but nothing as glamorous as you think.  No 'special' courses.  Just being selected within a Section/Platoon/Unit as being the/one of the Best Shots and employed as such in any case that that unit sees fit.  In Riot Control, there are Designated Riflemen who will carry out Drills as Ordered should an incident escalate to the use of Deadly Force. 

On another note, you can qualify for your Marksmanship Badge during your PWT and have that qualification for a year, after which you have to qualify again.

Sorry to continue the resurrection of a long dead thread, but changes are coming shortly.

The Sniper Course will be split into two parts:  Designated Marksman and Sniper.  Basically, we are going to split the stalk PO away and save it for the Sniper course.  DMs will take the DM course (old sniper less the stalk) and then after being qualified Recce etc, they will be allowed to attend the Sniper course.  This should a) imnprove the pass rate of the Sniper course, and b) provide a pool of DMs.  Concurrent to this is an inititive to purchase AR15s for the DMs.

[Samsquanch]

I looked at buying an AR-15.... and for the price and the fact it is restricted, wasn't the choice for me. Instead I took the money got myself a ruger lr22(love it) , and a SKS 7.62(so much fun) , and a mosberg 12 gauge three different fun guns for much less than one AR-15. None of which are restricted. Just an idea? I know the AR-15 looks and feels sexy but.......necessary....up to you. Bushmaster has a few different types if you are still interested.

Chinese SKS was 149$ and aftermarket parts galore....

[KevinB]

PPCLI Guy -- I think your meaning AR10T for the DM's (the 7.62mm Big Brother to the AR15/C7).
  Good to hear about the splitting of the basic course.

Samsquanch - neither of those choices you pointed to are accurate.  The idea was provide a system (AR15) with the same (well similar - not auto) characterisitics for the member to train with.

As mentioned the AR15 family is restricted by name -- thus no calibre, barrel length or over all length issues apply to it.

[Urban]

All semi-auto weapons must have pinned mags to ensure it can only hold 5 rounds.

You can have as many .22 cal bullets in a magazine as you want; I even looked it up again in my old PAL book. I think that it also extends to any rim-fire bullet. Unless of course the law has changed on me.

[Future Unknown]

yeah thats correct, but we aren't speaking about .22, the user wants a ar to train like he fights, and YES before someone kindly points it out I am aware that there are .22 conversion kits of the AR.

[PPCLI Guy]

PPCLI Guy -- I think your meaning AR10T for the DM's (the 7.62mm Big Brother to the AR15/C7).
  Good to hear about the splitting of the basic course.

Right you are - I ain't a gun guy, and was pretty sure I was getting it wrong...

[Shamrok]

Maybe I'm a little behind the times here but I just found an article on the CF possibly adopting the Designated Marksman role to fill the gap between the standard Infanteer and the speciality of a Sniper role. If this was to happen what would see as being adopted as a Designated Marksman Rifle?

Personally I would want something along the lines of the Brit's new L129A1. Just my 2 Cents.

[aesop081]

Personally I would want something along the lines of the Brit's new L129A1. Just my 2 Cents.

You are basing this on what ? What is your reasoning for this choice ?

[Shamrok]

You are basing this on what ? What is your reasoning for this choice ?

A friend of mine swears by his LMT LM308 which is the base platform for the rifle. There are only a couple of differences between the Civilian and Military versions and they are mostly cosmetic. He has put about 5000 rounds through his and has never had single stoppage and has taken it out and beaten the S$#@ out of it and still has not had a problem internally. From his personal experience as well as the positive reviews from mainstream firearms based media has led to reasoning for this choice.

[Lerch]

I thought the CF had an AR10 variant for the DM role.

[PuckChaser]

I thought the CF had an AR10 variant for the DM role.

Sniper teams had them when I deployed in 2007, I didn't think it was issued down to the individual sections though.

[CanadianTire]

A good friend of mine was one of two DMs in his platoon on 3-09. If I recall correctly, he was taught the C3 in the off chance it was issued, but once in theatre I believe both he and the other DM were given C7s (I don't think they were even heavy-barrelled) with Harris bipods and Leupold scopes.

The US, at that pointed had re-introduced the M14 (in a highly modified form) and faced such shortages they even began buying back from civies.

[Illegio]

Back in 1-08, the company-level sharpshooter had an AR-10, and the platoon sharpshooters had the C7CT.

There's a thread kicking around from a while ago talking about just such a topic. The sniper community is still waiting for their gas gun, and even money says that whatever that rifle turns out to be, the same rifle will be adopted for the DM role back in the companies, probably with a different optic.

So as for what rifle, it will be a semi-auto 7.62mm. Beyond that, who really cares so long as it does the job.

[MikeL]

The US, at that pointed had re-introduced the M14 (in a highly modified form) and faced such shortages they even began buying back from civies.

The M14/EBR I believe was brought into service in the last couple years, but the M14(non EBR) was brought in as a DMR years ago during the early phases of OIF/OEF.  As well other DM Rifles have been in use in both the US Army and USMC.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Squad_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
http://www.military.com/news/article/2008/new-lease-on-life-for-the-beloved-m14.html

[CanadianTire]

Thanks for the clarification. I just remember seeing a lot more of the EBR style ones in the second half of the tour.