Author Topic: Dion on Pakistan  (Read 8401 times)

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Offline Aden_Gatling

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Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2008, 23:05:53 »
  Is there some video on that I would love to post it on YOU TUBE. Here you Liberal twits suck on this.

It was in French but it was pretty unambiguous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbop5IaeEQg

He was clearly talking about NATO intervention to 'help' Pakistan ("avec les forces de l'OTAN"): if we are to believe the Liberal party's subsequent 'clarification', it would mark the first time that NATO forces were used for purely diplomatic purposes (and one can only imagine how).
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Offline X-mo-1979

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Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2008, 23:10:43 »
Hate to tell you this, but Dion was speaking French!

....oh my...

At least Iggy doesnt sound like a idoit.Even though he is still a liberal.

Offline Aden_Gatling

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Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2008, 23:35:29 »
<psssst ... sgf: I'm sure you'll tell us that Dion's policy hasn't changed again, but "intervention" is no longer the policy:


Quote
Conservatives grossly distort Stéphane Dion’s recent comments on Pakistan
January 17, 2008

Contrary to the erroneous claim and distortions of Mr. Harper and the Conservatives, in a press conference in Quebec City yesterday the Liberal leader did not propose a military intervention in Pakistan. Mr. Dion obviously did not propose any sort of military intervention. Mr. Dion believes that Canada must focus our diplomatic efforts on Pakistan in order to secure the border with Afghanistan.

There can be no doubt that one of the single biggest factors in the ongoing struggle for security and stability in Afghanistan is the border with Pakistan. During the recent visit to Afghanistan by Mr. Dion and deputy leader Michael Ignatieff, they heard time and again that a major impediment to improving the security of Afghanistan is the existence of Taliban training centres across the border in Pakistan. The location of these centres are known according to Afghan authorities. Canada must not only diplomatically intervene with Pakistan to convince them to take necessary action to shut down these centres and stop the flow of insurgent personnel and equipment across the border, we must also put pressure on our NATO allies to make this issue a priority in their own bilateral dealings with Pakistan.
It is incumbent upon Canada, in close collaboration with our NATO allies, to pressure Pakistan to deal seriously and swiftly with these Taliban centres if we truly want to see an improved security situation in Afghanistan. Canada will need to take its diplomatic efforts more seriously than the Conservative government seems to deem necessary.
http://www.liberal.ca/story_13492_e.aspx

By helping Pakistan to pacify Afghanistan with NATO forces, he clearly meant to "put pressure on our NATO allies to make this issue a priority in their own bilateral dealings with Pakistan."  Right down the memory hole ...



« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 23:38:45 by I_am_John_Galt »
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Offline ArmyVern

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Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2008, 23:39:43 »
And, another underwear change later ... here we sit flipping pancakes yet again.

 ;)
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Offline RangerRay

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Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2008, 01:13:00 »
I don't think anyone is saying there isn't a problem on the Pakistani border...it's been well documented and everyone knows it.  NATO countries have been pressuring Mussharaf to do something for years.  The problem is, he is unable (for whatever reason) to do anything despite the pressure he faces.  Does Citoyen Dion really think he (of the "soft power" Liberals) can succeed where other stronger leaders and nations have not?

The problem is, if the Pakistanis are unable to root out the Taliban/AQ bases in their territory, and NATO diplomatic efforts (which I do not believe have been weak) have failed, the only other option is direct military action within Pakistan's borders.  That will not happen*.  If Steffi has a plan that will work, I would like to hear it.  But his interview on CBC was full of empty platitudes.  Even when pressed by Peter Mansbridge (I just about fell out of my chair!), he babbled incoherently with nothing solid.  It's like he first became aware of the border issue two days ago.

*unless a new hostile Islamo-fascist regime takes over.
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Offline sgf

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Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2008, 09:08:05 »
I don't think anyone is saying there isn't a problem on the Pakistani border...it's been well documented and everyone knows it.  NATO countries have been pressuring Mussharaf to do something for years.  The problem is, he is unable (for whatever reason) to do anything despite the pressure he faces.  Does Citoyen Dion really think he (of the "soft power" Liberals) can succeed where other stronger leaders and nations have not?

The problem is, if the Pakistanis are unable to root out the Taliban/AQ bases in their territory, and NATO diplomatic efforts (which I do not believe have been weak) have failed, the only other option is direct military action within Pakistan's borders.  That will not happen*.  If Steffi has a plan that will work, I would like to hear it.  But his interview on CBC was full of empty platitudes.  Even when pressed by Peter Mansbridge (I just about fell out of my chair!), he babbled incoherently with nothing solid.  It's like he first became aware of the border issue two days ago.

*unless a new hostile Islamo-fascist regime takes over.
I am the first to agree that dion is not the greatest communicator and hes not my choice as lib leader, having said that he is not saying that canada, alone, needs to have a plan for intervention on the border but rather Canada in conjunction with its allies needs to work out a solution to deal with that oh so porus border and the inability of the Pakinstan govt to deal with the taliban.I watched that interview and i watched the discussion panel after.. both very interesting and telling

Offline MCG

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2008, 11:04:20 »
But the solution would not be a military one...
Considering that the very first news article posted on this topic included the caveat that the Liberal position was for a non-military intervention, I really do wonder if some of us are playing the retarded word spinning game that is often used by the left to misrepresent the mission in Afghanistan.  The problem is that his solution (be it military, political or huggy-bears) is not defined.  Is he suggesting carrot or stick, or is it just more good sound-bites?

Offline Boxkicker

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2008, 14:23:10 »
It was in French but it was pretty unambiguous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbop5IaeEQg

He was clearly talking about NATO intervention to 'help' Pakistan ("avec les forces de l'OTAN"): if we are to believe the Liberal party's subsequent 'clarification', it would mark the first time that NATO forces were used for purely diplomatic purposes (and one can only imagine how).
  I watched the video on CTV and he was pretty specific NATO FORCES, diplomacy through a rifle is what that means to me.
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Offline X-mo-1979

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2008, 16:10:16 »
The Canadian public knows one thing.Afghanistan is a country where our young men and women are being killed.Very few know why they are there.I recently got a e mail from a old friend,saying I'm sorry you have to deploy to the "oil war" and hope you return home safely.This is an average citizen from what I have seen today.

Dion has no idea what he is talking about half the time,and when he does his poor language skill's in french and even worse english conveys his incompetence.This is what the Canadian people hear,and base their idea's on.

Harper's government was put down for not conveying what the Afghanistan mission was about.Being a hardcore conservative I do have to say they have to wake up and get the truth across to the Canadian people.Did we not see a shuffle a while back?And why have the people still heard nothing concrete from the conservative side.

Complaining without solutions right?Well here is my suggestion.

Mr.Harper our elected PM make a speech.Somewhat like the Queens Christmas message,in informality and length.His covering of the mission during other platform speeches WILL NOT reach the average Canadian's,as most don't care to listen to the full hour or so monotone speech with a few claps in between french to english translations.

Mr.Harper should explain the whole UN Mission,what the country was like before,pictures of the horrors during his short to the point speech.Make it in english and in french,not one with translations as I feel something is lost when the translator takes over.Make it during the evening news,when most people are looking for their few minute blurb on world events.

This could effectively make Harper seem more personable,I believe his CTV interview he did where he talked about wanting to call his father was an excellent example of how a news cast can make a person seem more human as Mr.Harper seemed prior to stay out of the public light.

As I said I would like to see something as in the throne speech,not Mr Harper stood behind a podium.Show pictures of of the horrors in that country and the improvement being made.

As for expecting Maxime Bernier to appeal to the majority of Canadians,I think it;s a big mistake.I'm sure others will disagree but every time I hear him speak I think of Dion.Not on policy etc just the poor pronouncation and emphasis during his sentences.I'm sure it's the same with the francophone community when an anglophone sounds like an idiot speaking their language (which happens as well...I know  ;D)

Mr.Harper's PR staff sould be all over my idea IMHO. ;D


Offline sgf

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2008, 17:19:22 »
well seeing as you mentioned Bernier,he is not doing the greatest job in communication either and doing a bit of damage control as well. Seems its going around Ottawa

Quote
Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier found himself backtracking Saturday over his department's training manual that lists the U.S. and Guantanamo Bay as sites of possible torture — alongside such countries as Iran and Syria.

In a statement, Mr. Bernier said he regretted the embarrassment caused by the public disclosure of the manual, adding that it contains a list that "wrongly" includes some of Canada's closest allies.

Mr. Bernier said the manual is neither a policy document, nor a statement of policy, and that he has directed it to be reviewed and rewritten.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080119.wtortureapology0119/BNStory/International/home

Offline RangerRay

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2008, 18:28:44 »
I am the first to agree that dion is not the greatest communicator and hes not my choice as lib leader, having said that he is not saying that canada, alone, needs to have a plan for intervention on the border but rather Canada in conjunction with its allies needs to work out a solution to deal with that oh so porus border and the inability of the Pakinstan govt to deal with the taliban.I watched that interview and i watched the discussion panel after.. both very interesting and telling

I could be wrong, but from my vantage point (which is not very good...perhaps someone who has BTDT can shed some light?), everything short of armed incursions into Pakistani territory has been tried.  What more does Citoyen Dion want NATO to do?  I honestly don't think he has a clue on the past and present efforts to get Pakistan to control its' frontiers.  To me, it sounds like his big plan is to do what has already been tried by us and our allies.
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Offline sgf

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2008, 19:00:57 »
well he probably has as much a clue as cheney has

Offline RangerRay

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2008, 20:57:49 »
well he probably has as much a clue as cheney has

What does this have to do with Cheney? 

The only thing I can tell is that it took Citoyen Dion this long to figure out what Cheney et al knew for years...

Aside from violating Pakistan's sovereignty and hunting the Taliban/AQ to their bases, what more does Steffi propose be done that has not already been tried? 

 ???
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2008, 21:43:53 »
MND MacKay has also not done a bang-up job of communicating about the mission.  X-mo-1979 makes a lot of sense.

Mark
Ottawa
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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2008, 14:34:47 »
dion said intervention is required in pakistan

And he is now backtracking, err "clarifying" his previous statements.  Also given his constant rhetoric, about leaving afghanistan (in some form), to now suggest intervening in another (whether that be diplomatic or by other means), is a little hypocritical and difficult to swallow.

Quote
cheney said intervention is required in pakistan

But he has never suggested leaving afghanistan in the same breath.  And he has never had to "clarify" his statements wrt to intervention in pakistan.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Dion on Pakistan
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2008, 15:28:13 »
MND MacKay has also not done a bang-up job of communicating about the mission.  X-mo-1979 makes a lot of sense.

Mark
Ottawa

Fully concur.

+1 to X-mo-1979