17 Oct 2026: Major fire at CFB Wainwright

[SeaKingTacco]

Or a Base Wildfire response capability including water bombers and well trained initial attack crews instead of relying on, you know, the local BMQ course with shovels and a smile .

As I recall, Airfield 21 (if it's still there) can take aircraft like Hercs...

Where are the water bombers coming from? Province? CAF? Contractor? Each of those “solutions” causes problems on their own.

A UGV solution gives each range control in Canada a built in resource they currently do not have to suppress fire in impact areas.

 

[dapaterson]

UGVs actually make the most sense. You can send them into a impact area full of blinds, towing or carrying a good quantity of water, with no humans in the danger area. I hope the BOI takes a look at this.

My one concern is that a comprehensive BoI would be a 2-3 year effort; is a more narrow and focused BoI with recommendations for resultant staff work more likely to deliver in a timely manner?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

My one concern is that a comprehensive BoI would be a 2-3 year effort; is a more narrow and focused BoI with recommendations for resultant staff work more likely to deliver in a timely manner?

Honestly, the Army could move on this issue, today.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

My one concern is that a comprehensive BoI would be a 2-3 year effort; is a more narrow and focused BoI with recommendations for resultant staff work more likely to deliver in a timely manner?

I was on a BOI for a friendly fire incident in AStan in 2006, led by a GOFO. 20 odd days in theatre, then 30 days locked up in a hotel in Ottawa to get it done, and then a briefing to the family of the deceased.. 2-3 years would be ludicrous...and families would be waiting for those results.

 

[YZT580]

UGVs actually make the most sense. You can send them into a impact area full of blinds, towing or carrying a good quantity of water, with no humans in the danger area. I hope the BOI takes a look at this.

a Piper Pawnee will cost you less than 300,000. So 2 or 3 of those per major base as part of your fire suppression unit and available for the neighbourhood when the need arises. The Saudis' maintain a fleet of Chinooks in every major city for just that purpose. UGVs are all well and good and all but if there isn't navigable territory they can't get there.

 

[The Bread Guy]

More, from the red caps at this point:

Statement from the Canadian Forces Provost Marshal on the Ongoing Investigation into the Incident at CFB Wainwright - Canada.ca

On behalf of the Canadian Forces Military Police, I extend my sincere condolences to the families, friends, and colleagues of those affected by this tragic incident.

www.canada.ca

Newest bit of info:
View attachment 102752
Also archived here.

MSM version ...

CFB Wainwright fire began on automatic grenade launcher range that crews could not reach: official

The investigation into a deadly fire at an Alberta military base first began on an automatic grenade launcher range during routine exercises, officials say.

www.cp24.com

 

[SeaKingTacco]

a Piper Pawnee will cost you less than 300,000. So 2 or 3 of those per major base as part of your fire suppression unit and available for the neighbourhood when the need arises. The Saudis' maintain a fleet of Chinooks in every major city for just that purpose. UGVs are all well and good and all but if there isn't navigable territory they can't get there.

Having been responsible for an RTA at one point in my career, I can tell you that generally speaking we rely on human firefighters to wait until the fire reaches the perimeter of an impact area before fighting the fire. There was one case where I had stern words with my fire chief after I discovered that they entered a heavily UXO contaminated area to fight a range fire, without any EOD support or any PPE (kevlar helmets or flak vests). I had not really thought about UGVs until the Wainwright incident. We could probably repurpose surplus M113s fairly quickly with water tanks; water turrets and radio control. They are something familiar and easily manintained.

I don’t understand your suggestion about buying Piper Pawnees. Are you proposing that each range control would have their own aircraft fleet? Operated and flown, by whom? Maintained, by whom? And why that specific aircraft?

 

[The Bread Guy]

a Piper Pawnee will cost you less than 300,000 ....

I don’t understand your suggestion about buying Piper Pawnees. Are you proposing that each range control would have their own aircraft fleet? Operated and flown, by whom? Maintained, by whom? And why that specific aircraft?

Also, why a plane who's newest edition is around +40 years old, if memory serves?

 

[NavyShooter]

UGV's would be the simplest solution - no Transport Canada certification required like you'd probably need with UAS.

Grab a Gator, knock out the seats and put a 200 gallon tank on it with a fire monitor system, have a 10 gallon "OMG" reserve tank with a self-sprinkling capability for escape if things get iffy.

Drive 2-3 of them in at a time, hit the fire, come back, refill and repeat.

Worst case, they get stuck in the template, and you get another static target.

Best case, they work for a while and you get to keep using them.

Set them up with a gameboy controller and a set of PFV goggles.

Use existing UAS to overfly (I know Gagetown Range Control has some UAS - I trained 2 of their pilots this summer) and guide them in/out and use them to cool hot spots once things are less burning....the UAS that Gagetown RC has on hand is equipped with Thermals.


Here's an option:

SHERP UGV PLATFORM - | official website in Canada

Sherp

sherp.ca

 

[Navy_Pete]

My one concern is that a comprehensive BoI would be a 2-3 year effort; is a more narrow and focused BoI with recommendations for resultant staff work more likely to deliver in a timely manner?

From a few other large fire investigations, there is typically an initial, fairly comprehensive push to figure out the timeline and the major factors, then follow up work to figure out and validate specifics (which may include full scale fire experiments). That will likely continue past the BOI and get appended later as an addendum.

Similarly, when there are big gaps found, they get pointed out and addressed immediately vice waiting for the BOI to finish. That's happened with some CAF investigations, as well as our allies and general civilian inquiries (like Grenfell) while people work through things. It's pretty painstaking, but rushing it means you'll probably miss key things and not actually address root causes properly.

There are a number of different options on the wildfire side that have been kicking around for a while, which include things to do before hand to reduce the fire risk, different tools to better suppress it (including airdrops from existing RCAF planes with zero mods), and better tools to fight it, but at the end of the day when something develops into a big front not really much you can do quickly other than get out of the way.

Running around and buying kit on a kneejerk doesn't make any sense, but once we get a good idea on the timeline, but is a lot more of a range safety procedure investigation with a fire component, vice a fire investigation, so maybe more SOP and guideline changes.

Sometimes though muiltiple factors just lines up in the worst possible way so won't be second guessing the actions of the folks on the ground that day.

 

[YZT580]

Having been responsible for an RTA at one point in my career, I can tell you that generally speaking we rely on human firefighters to wait until the fire reaches the perimeter of an impact area before fighting the fire. There was one case where I had stern words with my fire chief after I discovered that they entered a heavily UXO contaminated area to fight a range fire, without any EOD support or any PPE (kevlar helmets or flak vests). I had not really thought about UGVs until the Wainwright incident. We could probably repurpose surplus M113s fairly quickly with water tanks; water turrets and radio control. They are something familiar and easily manintained.

I don’t understand your suggestion about buying Piper Pawnees. Are you proposing that each range control would have their own aircraft fleet? Operated and flown, by whom? Maintained, by whom? And why that specific aircraft?

The piper because it is an economical a/c that can be used for fire suppression. Wouldn't need to be devoted entirely to the base but could be a neighbourhood resource that, when the grass has dried and becomes a hazard stays in the neighbourhood. Civilian owned and operated. You don't need air force training to run a crop sprayer. We have transport ships on contract, we have air transport on contract, why not fire suppression a/c? CL515s and the like are totally unnecessary but the pawnee is a cheap and readily available bit of insurance. And so what that it is 40 years old. They are still available, current and in demand. However any good crop sprayer will do. Most of the new ones are simply derivatives of the piper albeit it made by someone else who stole the notion.

 

[GR66]

What's the firebreak infrastructure like around the live fire ranges? Do they have gravel roads around the impact areas to prevent the spread of fires caused by munitions? It could even be as simple as a network of cleared pathways with low-combustion plants like sod to slow the spread of a grassland fire (and to provide clear paths for personnel to evacuate the area when there is a fire).

 

[lenaitch]

UGV's would be the simplest solution - no Transport Canada certification required like you'd probably need with UAS.

Grab a Gator, knock out the seats and put a 200 gallon tank on it with a fire monitor system, have a 10 gallon "OMG" reserve tank with a self-sprinkling capability for escape if things get iffy.

Drive 2-3 of them in at a time, hit the fire, come back, refill and repeat.

Worst case, they get stuck in the template, and you get another static target.

Best case, they work for a while and you get to keep using them.

Set them up with a gameboy controller and a set of PFV goggles.

Use existing UAS to overfly (I know Gagetown Range Control has some UAS - I trained 2 of their pilots this summer) and guide them in/out and use them to cool hot spots once things are less burning....the UAS that Gagetown RC has on hand is equipped with Thermals.


Here's an option:

SHERP UGV PLATFORM - | official website in Canada

Sherp

sherp.ca

A typical 1.5" fire truck reel line flows about 60 US gpm so a 200 gallon tank doesn't get you very far unless the fire is caught really early and hasn't formed a front. The turnaround time to reload and return would depend, but I suspect that in an open range situation it would be fairly long. They could dot in-ground hydrant tanks so long as there is somebody or some means to connect the vehicle.