2014 Ontario General Election

[Retired AF Guy]

Nope they - the Ontario Liberal Party - won't do that. They have the likes of Sid Ryan and his union buddies and the Working Families Ontario to do the dirty and heavy lifting for them for free. They get to keep their hands clean.........


Sincerely
Larry

Don't forget that Working Families Ontario is suing the PC's for alleging that they are agents of the Ontario Liberal party. Be interesting to see where that ends up. More here.

 

[Remius]

Speaking of suing...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tim-hudak-files-defence-in-liberal-libel-suit-as-ontario-election-begins-1.2632335

Mr. Hudak has a long way to go to convince he is the right alternative choice to Premier Wynn but in this, I fully respect him for backing up his words and standing by his assertions.

 

[The_Falcon]

Never thought I would see the day when 1) I'd agree 100% with an article written by Warren Kinsella, and 2)in that same article he admonishes a very prominent liberal and her party. 

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2014/05/20140506-081116.html

WARREN KINSELLA | QMI AGENCY

The great thing about living in a democracy is, well, living in a democracy.
Characteristics of a democracy include things like power exercised by citizens, or officials elected by citizens. Majority rule, but with human rights, equality, freedom of media, speech and religion. And - most significantly, for the purposes of this morning's civics discussion - free and fair elections.

Elections are good. But, surveying the aforementioned media, some days you'd never know that.

Take, for example (please), Ontario. In a couple days, an election is about to get officially underway in Ontario. And that is a good, good thing.

Many hacks and the flaks, however, don't think so. Kathleen Wynne is one of them. Wynne was selected as Ontario Liberal leader by a few hundred Grit delegates more than a year ago, but she hasn't been elected by millions of Ontarians in a general election. Despite that, she very much gave everyone the impression she wanted to continue in that role - selected, not elected - for the foreseeable future. The pesky opposition, however, decided to vote against her 2014 budget. The arrogance!

Mortified, Wynne later appeared at a Toronto bar to sound mortified. "We would have loved to have had the opportunity to immediately implement that budget, but [NDP Leader] Andrea Horwath and [PC Leader] Tim Hudak decided they want an election," she said, with a straight face. Behind her, Liberal staffers held up prepared signs reading "WHAT LEADERSHIP IS," apparently unaware that you should never consciously try to talk like Yoda. (Or, politically, raise a question you can't answer.)

Wynne's candidates were also in high dudgeon over the opposition, you know, opposing. For example, the Liberal candidate for Algoma-Manitoulin, Craig Hughson, has been getting ready for an election for months. But there he was in the Manitoulin Expositor over the weekend, professing his shock and horror that democracy has unexpectedly broken out.

"I am surprised but ready for this unnecessary election," said Hughson, an authority in sucking and blowing at the same time.

So too some media. The Toronto Star 's biggest front-page story in Sunday's paper huffed that the opposition's desire to have an election was "backfiring." "Forcing" Wynne into the June 12 election, as the Star put it, was somehow a bad thing. Why?

Well, because a poll told them so. The Liberals were going to win again, decreed the pollsters, so why bother? Left out of the Star' s analysis was disclosure that the polling firm in question, Forum, had previously declared the Wildrose Party would win a huge majority in Alberta in 2012 (wrong), the Parti Quebecois would win a huge majority in 2012 (wrong), and the B.C. NDP was on the verge of winning in 2013 (wrong).

But the message - from the selected premier, the unelected candidates and some feckless media - was the same: elections are unwanted. They're "unnecessary," even.

Sorry, but that's a damnable lie. Every day, in every part of the world, millions of people pray that they could have what Canadians have. They risk life and limb to get here, in fact, to live in a democracy. And, at the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, they know that you cannot have democracy without elections.

The likes of Wynne and Hughson deserve to be condemned for implying that democracy is unwanted. It isn't.

They, however, may well be after June 12.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Never thought I would see the day when 1) I'd agree 100% with an article written by Warren Kinsella, and 2)in that same article he admonishes a very prominent liberal and her party. 

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2014/05/20140506-081116.html

I must agree with you ... for Kinsella, a true-blue Liberal if there is one, to take a hatchet job to Wynne is pretty astounding.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Part of this goes to (yet another) Liberal civil war, this one in Ontario. Mr Kinsella was a major supporter of Sandra Pupatello and he was, and apparently remains, markedly estranged from Premier Wynne and her team.

This (Ontario) spat is not anything like as serious as the deep divisions which have bedeviled the Liberal Party of Canada since the 1960s, but it is still a problem for the Ontario Liberals because Mr Kinsella is a skilled tactician and communicator.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Remember, the only poll that counts is the one on election day - that said, here's some of the latest numbers (source).

 

[Edward Campbell]

Based on just one promise, one that might cost him the election, a promise to cut 100,000 civil service jobs, I'm going to vote for that idiot Conservative leader Hudak's candidate in my riding.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Based on just one promise, one that might cost him the election, a promise to cut 100,000 civil service jobs, I'm going to vote for that idiot Conservative leader Hudak's candidate in my riding.

Agree with your bit in the yellow - a bit more detail from the news release:

•An across-the-board wage freeze for every government worker, including MPPs;
•Shrink the size of cabinet from 27 to 16 Ministers;
•Lowering spending in every area of government but health care;
•Reducing the number of government employees by 100,000, and;
•Encourage better service through competition

Also, " “Vital” frontline service providers such as nurses, doctors and police would not be touched."  Surprised firefighters and jail guards didn't make that list.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The best thing about that idiot Conservative Laeder Hudak's promise is that he plans to cut 100,000 people from a civil service that only has about 60,000 of them in 25 departments. Of course there are more and more people working employed in the 560 government agencies (560!  ). I'm just waiting for the questions ... I'm also waiting, impatiently, for adult leadership in the Ontario PC Party.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The best thing about that idiot Conservative Laeder Hudak's promise is that he plans to cut 100,000 people from a civil service that only has about 60,000 of them in 25 departments. Of course there are more and more people working employed in the 560 government agencies [/b] ....

And when he talks about "government workers", when excluding cops, you'd have to lump in the ~270,000 municipal "government" workers, too.

 

[The_Falcon]

Maybe this one will get overlooked, or at least his handlers will downplay it considering Hudak has been given 2 gifts.  1) Unilever announcing they are closing a plant in Bramalea to head to cheaper parts in Mississippi, and 2) Wynne deciding that federal politics is more her style and Stephen is more than happy to egg her on.

 

[Nemo888]

Wynne certainly made the right choice when she decided the NDP was her only real opposition. Her platform is further progressive left than any NDP platform in Canada.

Hudak's platform is to cut 1.4% of all the jobs in Ontario, 13% of all provincially funded jobs. Even if that was his plan what kind of idiot would start his campaign with promising to cut 100,000 of the best paying most secure middle class jobs in the province.

Maybe after the next election we can finally get a look at how the Liberals have been cooking the books. This election looks like it is already in the bag for Wynne.

 

[dapaterson]

The best thing about that idiot Conservative Laeder Hudak's promise is that he plans to cut 100,000 people from a civil service that only has about 60,000 of them in 25 departments. Of course there are more and more people working employed in the 560 government agencies (560!  ). I'm just waiting for the questions ... I'm also waiting, impatiently, for adult leadership in the Ontario PC Party.

And what better place to call for job cuts than a country club?


It's like he's not even trying...

 

[Nemo888]

And what better place to call for job cuts than a country club?


It's like he's not even trying...

The Barrie Country Club is very affordable. It's only 10k to join. Minimum 4000$ a year spent on food and drink not including annual membership fees.

He is throwing the game right? He must not want a minority and plans to win the election after this one. He can't be this out of touch.

 

[Crispy Bacon]

Hudak's platform is to cut 1.4% of all the jobs in Ontario, 13% of all provincially funded jobs. Even if that was his plan what kind of idiot would start his campaign with promising to cut 100,000 of the best paying most secure middle class jobs in the province.

I was at a Hudak campaign rally where he clearly said these would be 100,000 over time and mostly through attrition.  A Hudak government wouldn't be handing out 100,000 pink slips on June 13 (interestingly, Friday the 13th!).

Of course, this isn't the angle the media wants to tell you about: they're going to fear monger for a bit and "wonder" where those numbers are going to come from... health care? Teachers? Police officers? Oh the horror! (In the media's minds)  :crybaby:

Hudak has been very clear that, for example, LHINs are gone under a PC government.  But that doesn't mean those employees are going to be out of work, it just means they won't be working for a LHIN.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I was at a Hudak campaign rally where he clearly said these would be 100,000 over time and mostly through attrition.  A Hudak government wouldn't be handing out 100,000 pink slips on June 13 (interestingly, Friday the 13th!).

Then someone better get his info-machine in line - the news release associated with this announcement seems pretty clear that the cuts will be made by 2016.

.... Our Million Jobs Plan will balance the budget by 2016, by taking decisive action, including .... Reducing the number of government employees by 100,000 ....

Of course, this isn't the angle the media wants to tell you about: they're going to fear monger for a bit and "wonder" where those numbers are going to come from... health care? Teachers? Police officers? Oh the horror! (In the media's minds)  :crybaby:

Some of the media has been somewhat clear on this:

A Progressive Conservative government would chop 100,000 civil servant positions to shrink the public payroll by 10%, Tim Hudak says.

The job cuts would return government to the size it was in 2009 and save $2 billion, the PC leader said Friday, adding “vital” front-line service providers such as nurses, doctors and police would be spared ....

Hudak has been very clear that, for example, LHINs are gone under a PC government.  But that doesn't mean those employees are going to be out of work, it just means they won't be working for a LHIN.

You're right about the LHIN promise, but unless you know of some magic employment machine out there, how is someone kicked out of their job as the door's locked not considered a job cut? 

 

[Crispy Bacon]

Then someone better get his info-machine in line - the news release associated with this announcement seems pretty clear that the cuts will be made by 2016.

Not trying to spin things here, but the news release says the budget will be balanced by 2016 through measures such as cutting 100,000 public service jobs.  It doesn't say 100,000 employees will be cut by 2016, but that reducing the size of the public service will be one of the ways in which the budget is balanced by 2016.

*Maybe* the 100,000 positions will be cut over 5 years, but only the first 30,000 are what it's going to take to balance the budget by 2016.

You're right about the LHIN promise, but unless you know of some magic employment machine out there, how is someone kicked out of their job as the door's locked not considered a job cut?

There are currently 15 LHINs that employ about 30 employees each.  If 50 employees retire and 300 employees are transferred from a LHIN position to another public service position, then only 100 employees would be cut, but that's not a 'cut' of 450 employees.

 

[The Bread Guy]

*Maybe* the 100,000 positions will be cut over 5 years, but only the first 30,000 are what it's going to take to balance the budget by 2016.

Your read sounds a lot looser than what the paperwork says:

Our Million Jobs Plan will balance the budget by 2016, by taking decisive action, including:

    An across-the-board wage freeze for every government worker, including MPPs;
    Shrink the size of cabinet from 27 to 16 Ministers;
    Lowering spending in every area of government but health care;
    Reducing the number of government employees by 100,000, and;
    Encourage better service through competition

I just don't see as much room for "up to" or "maybe" in the documentation.  Yes, we judge what people say, but when there's uncertainty, folks tend to go to what's written - and this doesn't say "we may or may not cut the number of government workers or cabinet ministers".

There are currently 15 LHINs that employ about 30 employees each.  If 50 employees retire and 300 employees are transferred from a LHIN position to another public service position, then only 100 employees would be cut, but that's not a 'cut' of 450 employees.

If that's what's going to happen, you're right.  Can you share a link explaining that?  I've only read/heard the consistent promise to close LHIN's, like this one:

.... An Ontario PC government will abolish the LHINs and redirect this money into patient care, where it belongs ....

and nothing about moving some of the staff back to (I'm guessing) the Ministry of Health (where at least some of the LHIN staff originally came from to top up the old District Health Councils).

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Every political party makes grandiose statements and promises when campaigning. Once the votes are counted, the usual deference and apologies are made. "Once we had a look at the books, we realized we're in much worse shape and owe much more than the previous government let on. In order to keep some of our promises we're going to have to rethink some of our others (new taxes, levies, hirings & firings, layoffs and pension package buy outs)".

People are, once again, believing everthing they hear, and none of what they already know from umpteen previous elections.

Vote your gut and ignore the campaign promises. They are all worthless rhetoric and no one will hold them accountable anyway.

Such is my jaded view of Canadian politics at every level.

I don't even listen to their bullshit. My mind is made up, based on their previous four(?) Years when they call the election.

Addendum:
This bluetooth keyboard on my tablet is driving me craaaaazzzzzyyyyy. ullhair:

 

[The_Falcon]

Every political party makes grandiose statements and promises when campaigning. Once the votes are counted, the usual deference and apologies are made. "Once we had a look at the books, we realized we're in much worse shape and owe much more than the previous government let on. In order to keep some of our promises we're going to have to rethink some of our others (new taxes, levies, hirings & firings, layoffs and pension package buy outs)".

People are, once again, believing everthing they hear, and none of what they already know from umpteen previous elections.

Vote your gut and ignore the campaign promises. They are all worthless rhetoric and no one will hold them accountable anyway.

Such is my jaded view of Canadian politics at every level.

I don't even listen to their bullshit. My mind is made up, based on their previous four(?) Years when they call the election.

Addendum:
This bluetooth keyboard on my tablet is driving me craaaaazzzzzyyyyy. ullhair:

The bolded part.  I have been engaged with the wife of one of my friends on FB, since she is a teacher, and Hudak made mention of fewer teachers.  So she obviously now thinks Hudak is evil and she has to vote liberal.  I guess she forgot when the liberals turned on teachers what 2 - 3 years ago.