• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

2025 Federal Election - 28 Apr 25

Is he Canada's most succesful conservative ? Or is this another example of Ont not seeing outside its borders.

3 majority gvts in a row in Canada’s largest province and taking a strong lead in the recent tariff tiff. He does have some street cred.
Because Tim Houston would like a shot at that title.
He’s working on it for sure. Ford has national recognition and the current US administration has taken note of him. Houston would be capable but has some way to go still I think.

Opportunities might come up though.
 
Is he Canada's most succesful conservative ? Or is this another example of Ont not seeing outside its borders.

Because Tim Houston would like a shot at that title.
The tarriffs have shut down some car plants, steel mills and other industry in Ontario, so it definitely is the tariffs here.

Tim Houston has been doing well, but both as different parties from the federal. Doug Ford has been steamling along and just got an even bigger majority on the new mandate in the biggest province, so that's what I assume they are talkign about. They both seem to know each other and have a good relationship, and both generally seem to be able to work with other Premiers regardless of party because they are functioning adults.

Crazy to me to read the article and there may be some kind of underlying staffing thing because Jenny Byrne previously worked in the Ford office and got fired? I imagine there probably was some back room push to get the fed CPC to try and adjust the messaging after Trudeau stepped down before they eventually went public. This total falling apart should be studied by the party if they ever want to get elected again; they relied way too heavily in 'don't vote for that guy, he sucks' and seems to have fallen apart when Trudeau left.

@IKnowNothing I think the fact that ON just gave the provincial Conservatives a big mandate but sticking solidly Liberal federally with a lot of votes swinging back showed it was never a ABC thing. Pollievre had people jump on board to go against Trudeau, but never sold them on why he was a better option so they weren't voting for him. He spent about a decade attacking Trudeau for being inexperienced (despite having less real world experience) and incompetent, and that all fell apart when Carney stepped in.

Hearing PP try and attack Carney for not ever leading in a crisis was laughable; PP has never had a real job, hasn't accomplished much as an MP, and hasn't lead anything other than one of the biggest campaign disasters in modern Canadian history. Will be glad to see him go; maybe a reasonable centrist Conservative that people would want to actually vote for will come in next (Ambrose? McKay?)
 
Is he Canada's most succesful conservative ? Or is this another example of Ont not seeing outside its borders.

Because Tim Houston would like a shot at that title.
I definitely like what I see from Houston. And don't particularly love Ford's non-crisis governance (That he skates on the housing crisis when Ontario's inaction is a huge part of what's driving the the national problem is crazy), but he's a "good man in a storm", and has shown a likeability, flexibility, and teflonish ability to shake off and move forward from mistakes/ scandals that keeps winning him elections.

I'd say it's a title he can justifiably "claim" but a claim that can't be conclusively awarded, if that makes any sense.

But there are some telling/interesting parallels.

Doug Ford was the Conservative answer to 15 years of increasingly unpopular Liberal governance. He met that challenge by winning a convincing majority, driving the Liberals out of party status. He has since won two more majorities, with the Liberal caucus having only grown back to 14 seats. This all happening in the key battleground of left leaning Ontario.

Pierre Poilievre, was to be the Conservative answer to 10 years of increasing unpopular Liberal governance. He met that challenge by pre-emptively driving the face and primary cause of that unpopularity out of the race, alienating large swathes of the centre right, and seemingly failing to generate broad, committed support outside of his base. He enters election day in what could charitably described as a coinflip. If that coin doesn't come up in his favour- PP needs to own the result, and the CPC needs to do some serious soul searching. Even if he does eke out a minority- the comparison needs to be made.
 
Open your eyes, there is several ABC types here. Not arguing it. They are there in plain sight.
You are confusing ABC with ABPP.

Plenty of people would in fact vote CPC if it had an adult leading them. I did last time and they turfed him. I actively participated in trying to select the next one and they picked the least likeable one.

The LPC decided to turf their dislikeable guy and bring in an adult. That had attracted disaffected red Tory and blue grits.

If you read through the threads many of the supposed abc types are pushing the CFP.

So open your eyes. The CPC can still win. I’ve said as much and why. If they don’t though THEY are the only ones to blame.

Hard core polarized ideologically driven conservatives won’t get it though…
 
Last edited:
... Plenty of people would in fact vote CPC if it had an adult leading them ...
Mind you, during those many months when Team Blue was way in the lead in the popular vote, appeal ratings for PP were still pretty low. That shows people seemed to be willing to hold their noses about the coach while being OK with the team. That was before JT left, though.
... The LPC decided to turf their dud likeable guy and bring in an adult. That had attracted disaffected red Tory and blue grits ....
Thus giving Team Blue their wish ("Trudeau's gotta go!") and losing them their prime target.
 
If Carney wins and makes an absolute shit show of Canada over the next 4 years is it Canadian voters fault for voting him in or Poilievres fault for not being a more attractive candidate?
 
If Carney wins and makes an absolute shit show of Canada over the next 4 years is it Canadian voters fault for voting him in or Poilievres fault for not being a more attractive candidate?
Completely, and unequivocally, the latter- unless you don't believe in leaders having personal accountability for accomplishing their organization's goals. The former is petulant and childish, and a further reflection the cause of the (potential) downfall of this election. If the CPC loses, it's because PP and JB felt entitled to win without bothering to win over the electorate.

Jen Gerson summed it up perfectly:
"If four more years of Liberal rule represents an existential threat to the nation, then the duty not to totally botch this was commensurately higher. The Conservative campaign simply wasn’t good enough."
 
If Carney wins and makes an absolute shit show of Canada over the next 4 years is it Canadian voters fault for voting him in or Poilievres fault for not being a more attractive candidate?
Ask the question in a slightly different way, and see if the answer changes: if PP loses the election - Blue leader #4 to lose to Red - it is Canadian voters' fault for rejecting him, or PP's fault for not doing what was needed to win?
 
Can you be a Conservative and still do what is needed to win?
If we're allowed to believe polls, PP himself was in a position to win- he just cocked it up by only having one play in the playbook and being all go no whoa. Also- see Doug Ford. Francois Legault. Tim Houston

The "woe is me no Conservative can win over the Eastern Canada idiots" is claptrap.
 
I think I understand. We can blame the Conservatives for the last 10 years of Liberal scandals and fuckery because they didn't provide more attractive candidates so Canadians couldn't help but vote Liberal.
No. We can blame the current conservative leadership for fucking up what should have been a layup.

I'm going to quote more Gerson because she hits the nail on the head- though the fat lady has not yet sung, and the ballots still need to be counted. PP may still pull it off.
Everything that is about to happen to the party is the direct and foreseeable consequence of choices they made in the years and months leading up to the election.

The Conservatives consciously, strategically, chose to alienate legacy media in favour of pursuing long-form interviews with partisan, niche, or outright conspiratorial outlets and personalities. This gave them great interviews, but these performances never got much reach outside of the converted. The Conservatives struggled to build a coalition outside of their pre-existing base of support. They were not able to persuade the persuadable.

This was a choice.

When the CPC rode high in the polls, they actively alienated, and even picked public fights with, other factions of the Conservative movement. They could get away with this as long as they were winning; but when the polls turned, the grudges lined up, and by the second week of the campaign, long-time Tory strategists were publicly trash-talking their own team.

This was a choice.

Pierre Poilievre is not ideologically aligned with Trump — but he did choose to ape Trump's tone and language in an attempt to siphon off some of Trumpism's momentum at home. With no plan to pivot away from pocketbook issues, this set Poilievre up for a backlash in the event of a Trump victory. A very foreseeable Trump victory.

This was a choice.

The CPC ran a campaign tightly focused on Pierre Poilievre himself. There was little to no attention drawn to other MPs or experts within the party. There was no transition team, nor any detailed policy released to the public until the last days of the campaign, which had the effect of making the CPC seem overly centralized around a polarizing individual, with no credible plan to address systemic and complicated problems.

This was a choice.

The end result was a version of the Conservative party that is more insular, more petty, more immature, and more shallow than the incumbent party they sought to upend.
 
Can you be a Conservative and still do what is needed to win?
Fantastic question right there, especially in the times we're in.

In the recent past, Mulroney and Harper would have said, "sure" - with Harper keeping a wider range of Conservatives inside the tent.

As I type, Ontario's Doug Ford, Nova Scotia's Tim Houston & PEI's Rob Lantz would say "sure" - with Ford on a hat-trick majority mandate this time around.

One follow-up to your question: What's it mean to "be a Conservative?" O'Toole and Scheer were the first victims of the Team Blue squads saying, "gotta stay pure" and getting their wish. Answer to that question seems to vary from one provincial Blue "farm team" to the other.

Another question: if the aim is to win and try to at least start implementing change, do you go full-zealot with little/no chance of winning, or water down the wine just a bit to get your nose in the tent? The Peter MacKay's and Rona Ambrose's of the world would likely diverge (as did Erin O'Toole and Andrew Scheer) from PP & Co. on that one, had they had the chance.

I'd advocate a bit of the latter approach, but no matter what party I was in, I'd be branded as a traitor/collaborator/weakling by the more doctrinaire wings of the team.
 
We mustn't forget to blame Conservative voters for voting the wrong leader in as party leader.

Army.ca ABC and liberal logic right there. If only O'Toole would have won! Those damn neo-cons, it's all their fault, they are so dumb.

If LCP win in 2025 --->Fast forward---> Its all PP's fault, he should have done more to educate the voters!
 
If Carney wins, that sucks BUT my wife and I got the farm appraised. After selling it to probably Chinese "investors" (we can get a ton of dough), we immigrate to the USA, I work as @KevinB caddy on the golf course and his limo driver.
That's the best suggestion I've heard all year. From anyone. About anything. Seriously!


For the left, any deviation from their world view is treason.
Except for actual treason. They seem fine with that...

(I know I know, it's just not the Criminal Code version of treason so therefore we tolerate it...sigh)


Big claims require big evidence - the other side of that coin is: what proof do you have that they are in bed together?
Fair enough!!

I suspect Carney and Trump have a lot more familiarity with each other than has been initially demonstrated just due to the circles they both run in.

They both invest heavily in a lot of the same companies, and both have been involved in the financial and real estate development sectors over the same decades.

It was Brookfield, with Carney at the helm, that has both bailed out & invested in Jared Kushner over the years. (Ivanka Trump's husband)

And it's not like him & Elon haven't sat at more than a few tables together


(I posted a video a few days ago, maybe a week ago, that had a good explanation & illustration of how Carney's & Trump's business and social circles are heavily intertwined. I'll see if I can find it again.)

All the world is but a stage... <Said in a French accent & doing the twirly finger thing I think French people sometimes do>
 
Back
Top