6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[Kilted]

In a Canadian context, would we have the foresight that the yanks lacked and harden the hill if a political leader was calling for a rally on the day of the throne speech, calling for the mob to fight for their country?

I think that there would be less political interference. Also, depending on the geographical size of the potential issues is, both Ontario and Quebec could request military assistance. Granted there may be an issue about Federal/Provincial jurisdiction in some parts of Ottawa.

 

[brihard]

I assumed that's what PPS was created for.

Anything to do with crowd/riot control using a formed body of public order trained police would go to Ottawa Police, and then assist from RCMP if needed. PPS are capable of routine security and armed response to an active threat, however they aren’t police.

 

[Altair]

I think that there would be less political interference. Also, depending on the geographical size of the potential issues is, both Ontario and Quebec could request military assistance. Granted there may be an issue about Federal/Provincial jurisdiction in some parts of Ottawa.

So a lone idiot with a gun rushes Parliament hill, and the subsequent report says that there were communication and jurisdiction issues, and as a result PPS was created. I would hope that jurisdiction issues would have been sorted out as well. Especially as PPS does fall under the RCMP

 

[Altair]

Anything to do with crowd/riot control using a formed body of public order trained police would go to Ottawa Police, and then assist from RCMP if needed. PPS are capable of routine security and armed response to an active threat, however they aren’t police.

I would hope PPS could deal with emergency situations as well, considering an emergency situation was responsible for their formation.

Let's hope it's never tested though.

 

[brihard]

I would hope PPS could deal with emergency situations as well, considering an emergency situation was responsible for their formation.

Let's hope it's never tested though.

Pretty sure I covered that with ‘armed response to an active threat’. PPS are definitely equipped and trained to shoot bad guys in the face. The distinction I was making is that a large and unruly crowd that requires a trained public order response will call for actual police, like when RCMP had to send their public order troop to the hill a couple winters ago for those antifa idiots and yellow vest idiots who were facing off.

PPS are routine security or sudden active threat. Normal policing and any followup of criminal activity go generally to Ottawa Police (used to be RCMP til a couple years ago). If OPS need help, RCMP can and will provide. A major protest with need for public order police on standby will generally be planned out well in advance.

 

[dapaterson]

I remember when Bush visited Ottawa... Watching things unfold from high level windows in NDHQ, and seeing the tops of helicopters in flight...

 

[lenaitch]

I’m less convinced we don’t have the angry frustrated people required to have a boil over here too

I'm not saying we don't have them, just not enough that are willing to rise to the level of violence we saw in DC or able to attract enough like-minded travellers.

I would hope PPS could deal with emergency situations as well, considering an emergency situation was responsible for their formation.

Let's hope it's never tested though.

The authority and mandate of PPS is limited to the 'Parliamentary Precinct'. Any development of an angry mob bent on assaulting Parliament Hill would naturally form in OPS jurisdiction.

Several years ago, I was part of a group at our Embassy in Washington discussing multi-jurisdictional law enforcement (not security related). I recall the RCMP attache outlining the sheer number of local and federal enforcement agencies in DC (DC police, Capitol, Parks, other federal buildings police, etc.) and how, if a drunk passed out on a sidewalk, the jurisdiction depended on which way he fell.

DC is a bit of a microcosm law of enforcement in general in the US. of Our problem of coordinating twos and threes is a only a pipe dream down there.

 

[Booter]

Just for reference sake- this was one of several dozen “glassing” things that were happening over Covid. People were charged and the usual “it’s a plant” “false flag” drivel ensued.

there are confirmed incidents of people pointing guns at police hoping for the “starting pistol” for all types of nonsense. This is over a cafe that was ignoring public health orders (and potentially losing their lively hood- so there’s lots of debates about the how of how we dealt with Covid. And I am quite empathetic to small business and had my own reservations)

I used this photo because it’s readily available on the net. I have personal knowledge of the scope of these events.

I really think we have stepped right up to that Jan 6 line several times. We just diffuse at the last second.

which is lucky and I’m thankful. But luck and Hope aren’t viable courses of action

 

[quadrapiper]

I really think we have stepped right up to that Jan 6 line several times. We just diffuse at the last second.

I expect, too, there's less (pseudo-)political nonsense around response, as well: even if something like the Jan 6 mob were to manage to assemble without response plans in place, I can't imagine OPS, PPS, RCMP, etc. allowing it to bimble along without (however hurried, improvised, and jurisdictionally fraught) a much more vigorous automatic response than what was seen in DC delivered without waiting for direction from Cabinet and Commissioner.

As for those police-glassing persons, I hope you passed along everything you know about them to the local police.

 

[Jarnhamar]

View attachment 65927
Just for reference sake- this was one of several dozen “glassing” things that were happening over Covid. People were charged and the usual “it’s a plant” “false flag” drivel ensued.

there are confirmed incidents of people pointing guns at police hoping for the “starting pistol” for all types of nonsense. This is over a cafe that was ignoring public health orders (and potentially losing their lively hood- so there’s lots of debates about the how of how we dealt with Covid. And I am quite empathetic to small business and had my own reservations)

I used this photo because it’s readily available on the net. I have personal knowledge of the scope of these events.

I really think we have stepped right up to that Jan 6 line several times. We just diffuse at the last second.

which is lucky and I’m thankful. But luck and Hope aren’t viable courses of action

First of all, that scope is disgusting and the person taking that picture should be popped in the nose with that filthy scope.

Second, charged for what?

Third, maybe the false flag accusations wouldn't happen so often if police weren't caught on the business end of protests.
Link

 

[brihard]

First of all, that scope is disgusting and the person taking that picture should be popped in the nose with that filthy scope.

Second, charged for what?

Third, maybe the false flag accusations wouldn't happen so often if police weren't caught on the business end of protests.
Link

I can’t speak to whether anyone has specifically been charged for the posting of photos of police in scope crosshairs recently in Alberta, but, generally speaking, that could easily be held to be uttering threats under the Criminal Code if there’s context that puts it in that light. It needn’t be proven the scope was actually attached to a rifle so long as the threat is conveyed. Good way to lose your firearms license and have your guns seized, too.

 

[Booter]

As for those police-glassing persons, I hope you passed along everything you know about them to the local police.

We dealt with it. There’s a variety of things that came out of it.

needless to say- there are years of court things and follow ups that Covid and the response has created, and there is a tremendous amount of intimidation of justice officials thats also happened.

society has entered a very strange time.

jarnhammer- I knew what your link was before I even clicked it. Because it’s the same example that everyone always uses.

I’m not going to reduce your comment or you over it. It’s there. It’s real. And it’s very annoying that while cops try and raise themselves out of the muck. There is a segment of dinks that create headache that lasts years.

you read the map how you’d like.

the only point of that hard right in the conversation- was to produce a Canadian incident that had violence in the wings around the politics.

to me- the idea that we re immune to pockets of political violence. Well orchestrated or not. Indicative of larger planning or not. Doesn’t jive with the things I’ve seen out west,

as with anything- I think the well intentioned anti-authority types, that keep the government on their toes. And that try and create conversation or second thought wind up concealing these types in their populations. That happens far left and far right.

when enough of that hidden stupid gets together, bizarre direction changes occur on the spot.

 

[lenaitch]

Or it could be a 'fun' app for a camera:

Sniper Gun Camera:Amazon.ca:Appstore for Android

 

[Booter]

Lots of things can be lots of things. Just use it as a thing to consider- I used that picture because it’s readily on the internet. Things were tense on the line with lots going on crying for a variety of things to happen to the government and the officers on the line. Which you can find even in Facebook chatter around the event.

the ensuing actions had more than just scopes and apps-
but I introduce the photo as a thought exercise from the internet. I can’t really go any farther beyond referencing Reddit.

anyhoo. Jan 6.

I don’t mean to be “mysterious”. I know how that looks. I’m just balancing public knowledge and the things I have extra insight into that wouldn’t be right to put out there.

and my involvement was very practical so I probably don’t understand how all the actions-on come together.

this is a thing where there is no organized conspiracy- but individual actions can catalyst and make unintended consequences. Which I would suspect is what happened on Jan 6.

for the majority of “planning” it was meant to be a show of rage. But individual actions cascading from the rhetoric made it something bigger.

 

[Jarnhamar]

jarnhammer- I knew what your link was before I even clicked it. Because it’s the same example that everyone always uses.

I’m not going to reduce your comment or you over it. It’s there. It’s real. And it’s very annoying that while cops try and raise themselves out of the muck. There is a segment of dinks that create headache that lasts years.

I can see why, it's a good example.

Yes regular caveats of a few bad apples apply. The thing is, the police officers in the example I gave didn't decide to dress up and infiltrate the protest on their own. The same as the police at the G8 (or was it G20?) summit in Toronto didn't decide to remove their name tags on their own.

There's a narrative that anyone who questions authority or the government is a conspiracy nut and open for ridicule or be ignored. Had someone in that example logged in here and said they think they seen police officers mixed in with the protestors we would have called bullshit.

you read the map how you’d like.

As someone whose life can depend on maps I prefer when all parties read maps the same way

 

[Booter]

fair play Jarn.

On all of that including the maps

 

[Remius]

I'm not saying we don't have them, just not enough that are willing to rise to the level of violence we saw in DC or able to attract enough like-minded travellers.


The authority and mandate of PPS is limited to the 'Parliamentary Precinct'. Any development of an angry mob bent on assaulting Parliament Hill would naturally form in OPS jurisdiction.

Several years ago, I was part of a group at our Embassy in Washington discussing multi-jurisdictional law enforcement (not security related). I recall the RCMP attache outlining the sheer number of local and federal enforcement agencies in DC (DC police, Capitol, Parks, other federal buildings police, etc.) and how, if a drunk passed out on a sidewalk, the jurisdiction depended on which way he fell.

DC is a bit of a microcosm law of enforcement in general in the US. of Our problem of coordinating twos and threes is a only a pipe dream down there.

I believe there are 22 different law enforcement agencies in Washington DC. I doubt comms is the best between most of them.

 

[brihard]

Another one of the police who was involved that day has now died by suicide. That’s three.

Third officer who responded to U.S. Capitol attack dies by suicide

Metropolitan Police Officer Gunther Hashida was found dead in his home Thursday. Two other officers who responded to the Capitol attack, Howard Liebengood and Jeffr…

nationalpost.com

 

[kkwd]

Another one of the police who was involved that day has now died by suicide. That’s three.

Third officer who responded to U.S. Capitol attack dies by suicide

Metropolitan Police Officer Gunther Hashida was found dead in his home Thursday. Two other officers who responded to the Capitol attack, Howard Liebengood and Jeffr…

nationalpost.com

Another suicide that was announced . He died on July 10th.
Officer Kyle DeFreytag

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Third, maybe the false flag accusations wouldn't happen so often if police weren't caught on the business end of protests.
Link

100% true, but taking that to its far end could mean no more undercover criminal investigations of any kind.

Meanwhile, speaking of cops at protests ...

Two of the six Seattle police officers who attended former President Donald Trump’s “Stop the Steal" rally in Washington D.C. on Jan. 6 have been fired.

Seattle Police Chief Adrian Diaz announced he terminated the two officers in a statement Friday and released their official disciplinary action reports.

(...)

Evidence gathered by the FBI and an investigation by the Office of Police Accountability (OPA) revealed that the two officers had trespassed onto the U.S. Capitol grounds on Jan. 6 and stood by while others around them breached the Capitol Building and assaulted officers, according to their disciplinary reports ...

This from Seattle's police chief ...

... The two officers were found to have crossed the outdoor barriers established by the Capitol Police and were directly next to the Capitol Building. Clear evidence places them directly next to the Capitol Building.  It is beyond absurd to suggest that they did not know they were in an area where they should not be, amidst what was already a violent, criminal riot.

These two officers were present at an attack on the U.S. Capitol, which was also an attack on our profession and on every officer across the country. Make no mistake: as a result of the events on January 6th, five Capitol police officers have lost their lives. More than a hundred officers sustained serious injuries – some career-ending – through outright assault. Hundreds more, across all agencies called to respond, bear the physical and emotional scars of that day. The participation of these two officers in that crowd is a stain on our department, and on the men and women who work every day to protect our community, serve those in need, and do so with compassion and dignity ...