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Alberta Election (2015)

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Kat Stevens said:
It was a stupid and arrogant statement, and that's why it bit him on the ass.  Just to be clear, you'd be okay if you hired someone to do a job with a very handsome pay and benefits package, entrusted them to steer the ship, and then when they run the company up on the rocks, be told "your fault dude, you hired me"?

Just backs up the saying that "the Truth Hurts".  "You did hire him."  Don't try and shift the blame, or say it is wrong.  The voters put him there; just as they have now put the NDP into power.  The voters got what they wanted. 

The Protest vote proved to be effective.  Not the first time it has happened.  Not the last.  The arrogance of numerous political figures has proven to be their undoing, and those future political figures who continue down that road, too arrogant to learn from that historical fact, are just as likely to follow suit. 
 
First, you have to understand that the Good Grey Globe's Jeffrey Simpson doesn't like Alberta; he is, personally, offended by the notion that Alberta, red neck, unenlightened, conservative, damned near foreign Alberta sits on all that oil while the Laurentian elites in Ontario and Quebec have none. That being said, I think he's about right in this column which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/will-albertans-finally-look-in-the-mirror/article24326547/
gam-masthead.png

Will Albertans finally look in the mirror?

JEFFREY SIMPSON
The Globe and Mail

Published Friday, May. 08 2015

Last glances in the rearview mirror of Alberta politics …

Premier Jim Prentice remarked just before the election campaign he unwisely called too early that Albertans should “look in the mirror” for the answer to why the province had a serious budgetary problem.

Mr. Prentice’s remark underscored the perils of telling the truth in politics, especially when the truth is hard. Voters prefer to believe the fault lies exclusively with politicians, forgetting who elected them.

Albertans had been electing second-rate Progressive Conservative governments (although they are are not alone in having settled for second-rate governments) that let major policy questions slide or ignored them altogether. These omissions and commissions caught up with the province.

Albertans were (and are) so deeply opposed to a sales tax that they frightened politicians of every stripe from introducing one. This omission contributed to leaving the province’s budget more vulnerable than necessary to the vagaries of world oil prices. Even the new walk-on-water Alberta leader Rachel Notley has avoided proposing a sales tax, presumably because she does not wish to challenge this deeply held – and deeply wrong – opposition.

Albertans also allowed governments – indeed encouraged them – to keep personal income taxes and business taxes very low. This was what former premier Ralph Klein boasted was the “Alberta Advantage.”

This “Advantage” was not built upon superior management of public affairs but the good fortune of geography that put so much oil and natural gas in the ground, which, in turn, poured revenues into the provincial treasury. Depending on the year and the oil and natural gas prices, 20 to 30 per cent of government revenues came from these fossil fuels.

That dependence produced two unhappy consequences. First, not nearly enough money from fossil fuel revenues was placed into the Heritage Fund for future savings. Second, the budget was far too dependent on world oil prices, so that Alberta’s finances swung wildly from surplus to deficit, which is what the unfortunate Mr. Prentice was attempting to say with his “mirror” remark. He didn’t put it this way, but the inference was correct: We Albertans had seen the results of this dependence many times before but did nothing to prevent it.

These fiscal swings happened periodically, and yet no social or political movement formed to yell, “enough!” Instead, there was always the sense that good fortune would return, that difficult times were temporary, that spending could go on as before, and that the tax system could remain largely unchanged. Better still, when times were really good, a premier such as Ralph Klein could cut cheques for Albertans and invite them to enjoy themselves.

Similarly, on the environment, Albertans convinced themselves (or at least many of them did) that the world (and especially the United States) needed its bitumen oil, would pay a high price for it, would appreciate Alberta’s efforts to reduce carbon emissions from its production and would therefore make way for the pipelines to get bitumen to markets.

All of these assumptions were contestable, as became apparent in recent years when pipelines stalled or were entirely blocked in the face of environmental and aboriginal opposition, U.S. domestic oil supplies soared and, more recently, world prices sank.

A look at the map ought to have signalled Alberta’s problem. Being landlocked, the province relied on support and approval from other jurisdictions. Rather than listening to what others needed before giving Albertans the answer they wanted, Alberta governments (and the Harper government) engaged in yet more salesmanship, telling others to get with the Alberta program.

Even when it became obvious that in the United States and British Columbia such salesmanship was a flop, the urge to keep selling and telling would not go away. But then, neither would the opposition noting that although Alberta had brought down its emissions from a business-as-usual case, emissions from expanded bitumen production would wipe out all the greenhouse gas reductions elsewhere in Canada, preventing Canada from meeting its national greenhouse gas reduction goals.

Now the rearview mirror is cracked. What was done and not done is past, but the tasks remain – first among which is to acknowledge hard truths.

It might be, although it is too soon to tell, that in voting impressively for the NDP, Albertans implicitly testified that they have looked in the mirror are now ready to grapple with crucial things left unattended to by previous PC governments.


Now, I take issue with several things he says, especially in the last paragraph, but the general thrust is correct:

    1. The PC Party lost its way ~ it was careless, lazy and self delusional ~ the last few PC governments were, indeed, "second rate;"

    2. Alberta is, from a revenue perspective, still a "one trick pony," and that means that it needs good, even excellent, management (for which, see Norway, for example, with 5 million people occupying 150,00 square miles vs.
        Alberta with 4 million living in 250,000 square miles) which isn't a left versus right thing, it's a smart and tough vs weak and stupid thing; and

    3. The "hard truths" now need to be acknowledged and corrected for by Premier elect Notley.

I take issue with Jeffrey Simpson's last paragraph. It's too soon to tell if Albertans voted for the NDP; we'll find that out in 2019 is they can be re-elected. What is certain is that they voted against the PCs.
 
Kat Stevens said:
It was a stupid and arrogant statement, and that's why it bit him on the ***.  Just to be clear, you'd be okay if you hired someone to do a job with a very handsome pay and benefits package, entrusted them to steer the ship, and then when they run the company up on the rocks, be told "your fault dude, you hired me"?

A little bit disingenuous but I'll bite.  What actually happened is that you had an appointed guy who was NOT hired by you because the previous incumbent resigned and this new guy is backfilling.  This backfill said that the last bunch of guys you hired were morons because THEY ran the company up on the rocks and that its YOUR fault because YOU hired the wrong people.  Don't get angry now that you took his advice, changed your hiring practices and found the incumbent didn't meet the new job criteria.

Btb government comparisons to companies only go so far.  I find they warp the view on governments and their roles and create unreasonable expectations.

Alberta might not be "conservative" anymore, but no one does "someone else screwed me faux rage" better than Albertans.  Take some responsibility for your own actions Alberta.  Its the sign of a mature voting population.  And look... Albertans did take responsibility and turfed the gov't proving Prentice was right. 

As for the freak out reaction I think what is happening is a bit of buyers remorse right now.  Change after 42 years of the same thing can't be comfortable.
 
All of these folks from outside demanding we "look in the mirror", suggesting that we are an unlikeable, unlovely bunch of red necks that, if only we would look harder at ourselves we would see the error of our ways.

I am not given to foul language (at least not in public) but in this instance I will make an exception. To all those encouraging us to look in the mirror: FOAD!  Or more explicitly F*CK OFF AND DIE.

Albertans have a very keen sense of self.  The reason the PC party is no longer on offer is that it no longer was recognizable to Albertans as Albertan.

My guess is that in 4 years time the PCs and the Wildrose will not merge.  Instead the PCs will fold and the Wildrose will absorb the PC vote.  In so doing the Wildrose will move more towards Ralph Klein's laisser-faire centre.

And just like the English - the more outsiders push the more Albertans will push back.
 
Kirkhill said:
All of these folks from outside demanding we "look in the mirror", suggesting that we are an unlikeable, unlovely bunch of red necks that, if only we would look harder at ourselves we would see the error of our ways.

I am not given to foul language (at least not in public) but in this instance I will make an exception. To all those encouraging us to look in the mirror: FOAD!  Or more explicitly F*CK OFF AND DIE.

Albertans have a very keen sense of self.  The reason the PC party is no longer on offer is that it no longer was recognizable to Albertans as Albertan.

My guess is that in 4 years time the PCs and the Wildrose will not merge.  Instead the PCs will fold and the Wildrose will absorb the PC vote.  In so doing the Wildrose will move more towards Ralph Klein's laisser-faire centre.

And just like the English - the more outsiders push the more Albertans will push back.


Makes eminent good sense to me.
 
Kirkhill said:
All of these folks from outside demanding we "look in the mirror", suggesting that we are an unlikeable, unlovely bunch of red necks that, if only we would look harder at ourselves we would see the error of our ways.

I am not given to foul language (at least not in public) but in this instance I will make an exception. To all those encouraging us to look in the mirror: FOAD!  Or more explicitly **** OFF AND DIE.

Just to be clear I never ever suggested that Alberta is an unlovely bunch of rednecks.  I love Alberta and Albertans and they are eminently likeable.  I love their politics and their way of challenging the normally held viewpoints in politics.  I'm just adding my  :2c: as a dispassionate observer. 

As for the "folks from the outside" etc... please... The Western victim card is so old.  Its almost as boorish as the Quebec victim card.  Comments like that just encourage the whole redneck stereotype and do you a disservice. 

Its not like Alberta hasn't been crabbing to everyone else in the country "Why don't you vote Conservative?  You know what you all need?  Conservatives!  Damn Liberal easterners!" (I've heard them all) for decades now.  People are going to take a little schadenfreude at Alberta's expense.  Jealousy at the oil wealth and irritation at a percived "holier than thou" attitude are a toxic combo.  There's going to be shots taken.
 
Kirkhill said:
And just like the English - the more outsiders push the more Albertans will push back.

This brought up a few thoughts.  I wonder what the influence of so many outsiders re-locating to Alberta had on the election.

I have no numbers or statistics right now but maybe that played/plays a role in this result?

Thoughts?
 
Crantor said:
This brought up a few thoughts.  I wonder what the influence of so many outsiders re-locating to Alberta had on the election.

I have no numbers or statistics right now but maybe that played/plays a role in this result?

Thoughts?
There is no doubt that played a role. At my wife's workplace there are several immigrants from socialist countries and several people from ON. They were all pushing the NDP agenda and were thrilled to see them elected. Native Albertans there not so much.
 
Statscan on the urban/rural split in Alberta, over time: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/demo62j-eng.htm

Since the 1950s, the majority of Albertans have been urban dwellers.  Two thirds of Albertans live in the Calgary and Edmonton Census Metropolitan areas.
 
KJK said:
There is no doubt that played a role. At my wife's workplace there are several immigrants from socialist countries and several people from ON. They were all pushing the NDP agenda and were thrilled to see them elected. Native Albertans there not so much.

Why am I thinking about this guy right now....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Parizeau#/media/File:Jacques_Parizeau1.jpg

Please continue with the redneck stereotypes...  its all immigrants and easterners fault  ::).  It is a valid line of questioning though.  Alberta has been undergoing a massive cultural change with so many new residents who bring different experiences.  How much did that influence the vote or really was it down to the PC screwing things up.

At my wifes work everyone wanted a NDP minority, and think that they overshot the mark.  And they are all Edmontonians who work in Calgary.... which I guess is equivalent to an immigrant from a socialist country when you think about it knowing internal provincial rivalries ;).

*edited for spelling*
 
Many of those same 'immigrants' are now leaving, to go back east, because their high paying jobs are gone with the oil sands closure.

If the NDP retain their hold in four years, Albertans will have to look inwards to themselves, instead of scapegoating others.
 
I am an immigrant Canadian AND Albertan.  After living virtually every where in Canada I have chosen to become an Albertan - and stay an Albertan.  Because I love everything that we rednecks are. (And I come from the land of the original rednecks).

I have no desire for Alberta to leave Canada - and I can enjoy yanking chains in Saskatchewan and BC.

However I have no time at all for "Holy Joes" of any religion proselytizing in my lug.  Jenny Geddes is a longstanding folk heroine of mine - not for any nationalist proclivities but for her clear and honest statement of wanting to be left alone with her own beliefs - "Wha daur say mass in my lug!"

And if you come to me, demeaning my beliefs as the simple whinings of a victim then I could start to sympathize with my ancestors dishing out the Merindol treatment - and spit ye fae erse tae gullet.

Your lot may whine, whoever the hell you are.  But I have never heard an Albertan whine.

As to the rest of the IMMIGRANTS.  I came out to Calgary in 1980 when the locals were starting to marvel at the changes as the City went through the 250,000 mark.  There were many immigrants then, just like me.  My boss was a Kapitan in the Erste Fallschirmjager at Monte Cassino and in Russia and with Skorzeny.  He was captured during the battle of the bulge.  Two of my fellow managers were also immigrants. One had previously met the Fallschirmjager on Cassino - they exchanged pleasantries.  Those other two managers were more typical of the majority of the immigrants to Alberta. They emigrated from farms in the stagnant socialist economy of Saskatchewan and immigrated into the more lively and profitable city of Calgary.  There we capitalised on the oil boom by supplying milk, ice cream and popsicles....

My wife, is another immigrant.  She immigrated from Saskatoon - as did most of her high school class. 

These folks, we folks, are now Albertans.  And we are not running away.  We came here by choice. We stay by choice and we stay because we like the company.

Now as to the NDP surge - Barristas and Students do not a society make.  The NDP exploited a seam created by Alison Redford and her takeover of the PCs.  Many of us sat this election out - and we allowed the NDP to come along that seam.

The NDP have an opportunity.  If they use it well they might get a chance at a second term.  But it is unlikely that the rank and file Albertan will sit out the next election.

Just as in Britain where the SNP drove Liberal Democrats and UKIP voters into the arms of David Cameron I fully expect the NDP to energize the creation of another laisser-faire party.





 
daftandbarmy said:
Meanwhile, at the bunker  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyXyxLiDtHo

Scunners and limmers, the hale feckin'  lot o' ye.  ;D
 
daftandbarmy said:
Meanwhile, at the bunker  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyXyxLiDtHo

:rofl:

I've been hoping and waiting for someone to do a parody.  Excellent laugh.  mil points in bound
 
Kirkhill said:
I am an immigrant Canadian AND Albertan.  After living virtually every where in Canada I have chosen to become an Albertan - and stay an Albertan.  Because I love everything that we rednecks are. (And I come from the land of the original rednecks).

I have no desire for Alberta to leave Canada - and I can enjoy yanking chains in Saskatchewan and BC.

However I have no time at all for "Holy Joes" of any religion proselytizing in my lug.  Jenny Geddes is a longstanding folk heroine of mine - not for any nationalist proclivities but for her clear and honest statement of wanting to be left alone with her own beliefs - "Wha daur say mass in my lug!"

And if you come to me, demeaning my beliefs as the simple whinings of a victim then I could start to sympathize with my ancestors dishing out the Merindol treatment - and spit ye fae erse tae gullet.

Your lot may whine, whoever the hell you are.  But I have never heard an Albertan whine.

As to the rest of the IMMIGRANTS.  I came out to Calgary in 1980 when the locals were starting to marvel at the changes as the City went through the 250,000 mark.  There were many immigrants then, just like me.  My boss was a Kapitan in the Erste Fallschirmjager at Monte Cassino and in Russia and with Skorzeny.  He was captured during the battle of the bulge.  Two of my fellow managers were also immigrants. One had previously met the Fallschirmjager on Cassino - they exchanged pleasantries.  Those other two managers were more typical of the majority of the immigrants to Alberta. They emigrated from farms in the stagnant socialist economy of Saskatchewan and immigrated into the more lively and profitable city of Calgary.  There we capitalised on the oil boom by supplying milk, ice cream and popsicles....

My wife, is another immigrant.  She immigrated from Saskatoon - as did most of her high school class. 

These folks, we folks, are now Albertans.  And we are not running away.  We came here by choice. We stay by choice and we stay because we like the company.

Now as to the NDP surge - Barristas and Students do not a society make.  The NDP exploited a seam created by Alison Redford and her takeover of the PCs.  Many of us sat this election out - and we allowed the NDP to come along that seam.

The NDP have an opportunity.  If they use it well they might get a chance at a second term.  But it is unlikely that the rank and file Albertan will sit out the next election.

Just as in Britain where the SNP drove Liberal Democrats and UKIP voters into the arms of David Cameron I fully expect the NDP to energize the creation of another laisser-faire party.

One measure of fitness is recovery time - the time from stress to normalcy.  I have no idea what a 2 hour and 15 minute recovery time means in this case but... it might mean something.  I leave that to the rest of you to figure out.

I apologize.

I don't retract my words because I meant everyone of them.  I apologize because I allowed myself to utter them.  Normally I try to maintain a degree more decorum and not give full vent to a rant.  Most of my "rants" are tailored and trimmed. 

It serves nobody well to allow their feelings to get the better of them as I did.  For allowing that to occur: I apologize.

Underway:

You took the brunt of the explosion.  Again, I apologize to you for the explosion.  And for that only.

In some respects you were an "innocent" bystander.  My original rant about "looking in mirrors" was occasioned by Jeffrey Simpson.  It was only after I posted my response to the Simpson posting that I realized that you too were advising "soul searching".  I stand by my position on the people that offer that advice. A couple of phrases come to mind - phrases about putting your own house in order and worrying about motes in other folks eyes while ignoring the beam in your own.  That applies equally to Jeffrey Simpson and to those various others that are offering to provide Albertans with mirrors.

I try, even when failing, not to criticize folks for the decisions they make - except if they are people that I have hired to make decisions on my behalf - politicians and bureaucrats are fair game, even moreso when they fail to make any decisions.  I don't mind debating my own decisions or my own beliefs.  I only suggest that the debate be a civil and respectful as possible.

In permitting my explosion this morning I failed in that regard, again.  And for that explosion, for that tone, I apologize.

Chris.
 
>Ahhh, Prentice was too good for the little work. Our bad we should have recognized his greatness.

Something like that.  His was the manner of a consultant, not a salesman.  It is ineffective politically.  But that reflects what happened prior to the election.  Post-election, maybe he did feel he was too good for the job of rebuilding the party.  Also plausible is that he felt he was the wrong person for the job.  People who do well and are not bombastic generally know their areas of expertise and limitations and stick to the former.

It's clearer now what happened.  Some of the voters pitched a fit one election too late, and overshot the mark irrevocably.  A majority is pretty much beyond reach until the next election.  Those voters are choked, but no-one likes to be angry with himself.  Prentice is the guy they want to give the pokey-chest treatment to and force him to apologize for his mean words and be contrite.  He has chosen not to be a pinata.  That makes some people angrier.  Also, experience shows that split parties do not necessarily re-unite in time for the next election, which means the NDP could be in for an additional term.  More anger accumulates, all of it wanting to go somewhere except inward.

Again, Prentice isn't the one who had a snit - some of the voters are.  The more complaints about him that pile up, the clearer it is that he has done conservatives a favour by departing quickly.  Every election there are people from all points on the political map vowing to withhold votes, or vote against their usual interests, or otherwise handle their vote in some way to express displeasure.  But voters do not have that luxury: they are responsible, not the politicians.
 
Kirkhill said:
One measure of fitness is recovery time - the time from stress to normalcy.  I have no idea what a 2 hour and 15 minute recovery time means in this case but... it might mean something.  I leave that to the rest of you to figure out.

I apologize.

I don't retract my words because I meant everyone of them.  I apologize because I allowed myself to utter them.  Normally I try to maintain a degree more decorum and not give full vent to a rant.  Most of my "rants" are tailored and trimmed. 

It serves nobody well to allow their feelings to get the better of them as I did.  For allowing that to occur: I apologize.

Underway:

You took the brunt of the explosion.  Again, I apologize to you for the explosion.  And for that only.

In some respects you were an "innocent" bystander.  My original rant about "looking in mirrors" was occasioned by Jeffrey Simpson.  It was only after I posted my response to the Simpson posting that I realized that you too were advising "soul searching".  I stand by my position on the people that offer that advice. A couple of phrases come to mind - phrases about putting your own house in order and worrying about motes in other folks eyes while ignoring the beam in your own.  That applies equally to Jeffrey Simpson and to those various others that are offering to provide Albertans with mirrors.

I try, even when failing, not to criticize folks for the decisions they make - except if they are people that I have hired to make decisions on my behalf - politicians and bureaucrats are fair game, even moreso when they fail to make any decisions.  I don't mind debating my own decisions or my own beliefs.  I only suggest that the debate be a civil and respectful as possible.

In permitting my explosion this morning I failed in that regard, again.  And for that explosion, for that tone, I apologize.

Chris.

Hey no problems.  A little heat is warranted around here sometimes.
 
Comparative government 101 of Poli Sci: the electoral system edition. How Alberta/Canada compares to other countries' electoral systems.

Ottawa Citizen

Stephen Maher: Alberta NDP won a false majority because of our outmoded electoral system

On election night in Alberta, former Wildrose leader Danielle Smith tweeted: “Combined PC-WRP vote is 52%. NDP vote is 42%. #justsaying”.

Smith — whose bizarre floor-crossing to Jim Prentice’s Conservatives set off the death spiral of his party’s 44-year dynasty — was correctly pointing out that the NDP’s Rachel Notley is taking power with a mandate from a minority of Albertans.

With 40 per cent of the vote, Notley will govern along with 52 MLAs, commanding a 62 per cent majority in the Alberta legislature: a false majority. The Progressive Conservatives won 28 per cent of the vote but only nine seats, 11.5 per cent. Wildrose won fewer votes than the Tories, 25 per cent of the vote, but got 21 seats, 25 per cent. The Liberals, with four per cent of the vote, won a single riding.

It’s hard to feel sorry for the long-coddled Alberta Tories, but they were stiffed. In Edmonton, 68,672 Progressive Conservatives dragged themselves to the polls and failed to get a single seat. The NDP claimed all 19.

Our outdated electoral system routinely fails to represent many voters. It gives extra seats to big parties, rural parties and regional blocs, exaggerates the impact of swings and punishes small parties and those whose appeal is geographically diffuse.

In 1993, the year voters drove Brian Mulroney’s Tories out of power, Jean Chretien got 60 per cent of the seats with 41 per cent of the vote. Reform got 17 per cent of the seats with 19 per cent of the votes, but the Bloc Quebecois, with its concentrated voted, got 18 per cent of the seats with 14 per cent of the vote, giving us a separatist Official Opposition. The Tories, who garnered more than two million votes across Canada, won only two seats.

That is ridiculous. It’s ridiculous, too, that in 2008 the Greens got almost a million votes yet not a single seat, while the Bloc, with 1.4 million votes, claimed 49.

On Thursday in Britain, where they use the same outmoded first past the post system, 2.7 million UKIP voters elected just one MP, while 2.4 millions separatist Scots got 56 MPs.

Germany, arguably the world’s most successful democracy, has been using a mixed-member proportional representation system since 1949, with dull coalition following dull coalition. Everybody votes twice, once for a local representative, the other for a party list.

If Albertans elected their legislatures that way, Notley would have 36 MLAs, the PCs would have 25, Wildrose would have 23 and the Liberals three.

In that scenario, Notley would not be sure to get the keys to the premier’s secret penthouse. Prentice, as the incumbent, could attempt to form a coalition with the Wildrose and govern Alberta with a bigger electoral coalition.


(...SNIPPED)
 
So what you're saying is that the Conservatives are now suffering from the same system that they supported for decades because it kept them in power, and now that they are out the system is outdated??  Pot this is kettle....

Its funny how the parties in power think the system works just fine, until they are no longer in power.  Federally the only parties that agree with the current system are the ones that think they can consistantly win with the current system, the Grits and Tories....
 
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