Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[SentryMAn]

Somewhere on the DIN there is a site that has proper memo writing guidelines which will be a great help to you.  I do not have access but if you do a din search it should come up handily.

You really don't want to have the memo kicked back to you for corrections.  The above listed memo is a good guideline as well.

 

[captloadie]

Don't waste time with a redress - it will have to be paid back.

This is absolutely poor advice.

Yes, you'll have to pay it back. But, the Grievance board is now recommending to the CDS to uphold several grievances where the member was not at fault for an overpayment, as there is an option for a ministerial waiver on the books, it is just never used. Grieve the decision, and in the end if changes arise from the Board's decision, you might get your money back. Now, this was based on substantial amounts paid over years, so each individual case may be handled differently.

 

[MJP]

This is absolutely poor advice.

Yes, you'll have to pay it back. But, the Grievance board is now recommending to the CDS to uphold several grievances where the member was not at fault for an overpayment, as there is an option for a ministerial waiver on the books, it is just never used. Grieve the decision, and in the end if changes arise from the Board's decision, you might get your money back. Now, this was based on substantial amounts paid over years, so each individual case may be handled differently.

Can you throw the links up for them.  Not challenging you, just want them in the bookmarks along with my myriad of other common redress grievances I use. 

 

[PuckChaser]

I just looked through the decisions on the grievance board, and unless there are some new CDS decisions on the board I don't see anything that the CDS is allowing people to have debt written-off due to overpayment that was not the griever's fault.

 

[opcougar]

Somewhere on the DIN there is a site that has proper memo writing guidelines which will be a great help to you.  I do not have access but if you do a din search it should come up handily.

You really don't want to have the memo kicked back to you for corrections.  The above listed memo is a good guideline as well.

Thx...I can't seem to find it. If someone happens to find it, pls cut and paste it here for us

cheers

 

[captloadie]

Sorry, here are the links.

http://www.cfgb-cgfc.gc.ca/english/2011-094.html


http://www.cfgb-cgfc.gc.ca/english/2011-091.html


http://www.cfgb-cgfc.gc.ca/english/2011-093.html

PC - I said that the Board had made the recommendation, not that the CDS had approved it. Yes, the CDS could disagree with the Board, but there is no harm from submitting a grievance.

 

[dapaterson]

The Grievance Board needs some remedial lessons.  The CDS cannot order that a DND directive on remissions be drafted; that's outside the CDS' authority and outside the CF's mandate.  The DM is responsible for that.

However, that is not to say that remission orders to TB can not be drafted and submitted for certain cases.

 

[Occam]

Thx...I can't seem to find it. If someone happens to find it, pls cut and paste it here for us

cheers

Try this for military writing guidelines, including memos - http://lfcms.kingston.mil.ca/Document.aspx?DocID=143000440174759

DWAN only, sorry no internet link available.

 

[opcougar]

Update:

So here is the reference sent with the original email I rx'd

Refs:  A.  http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/pdf/205_e.pdf (CBI 205.45)
B.  http://admfincs.mil.ca/qr_o/vol3/ch203_e.asp#203.04 (QR&O 203.04)

My wife God bless her ( I am always complaining about her keeping everything and creating clutter ) sent me the below info ( msg I rx'd at the time showing that I'll get PLD ) with a CANFORGEN #. My place of residence at the time of Joining ( Brantford is on that list effective 2007), so that contradicts the Ref A above that states $0 for Brantford

So if anyone else finds themselves in this situation anytime soon, you might want to refer to this CANFORGEN


-------------------------------

RAAUZYUW RCCPJAW4003 1351232-UUUU--RCCRUNA.
ZNR UUUUU ZOC
R 141802Z MAY 09
FM NDHQ CMP OTTAWA
TO CANFORGEN
BT
UNCLAS CANFORGEN 090/09 CMP 039/09
SIC WAS
SUBJ: POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL (PLD) 2009/2010 RATES
BILINGUAL MESSAGE / MESSAGE BILINGUE
REFS: A. CBI 205.45 (POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL)
B. CBI 205.452 (TRANSITIONAL POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL)
C. CANFORGEN 061/08 CMP 024/08 311241Z MAR 08
1. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO PROMULGATE THE TB APPROVED PLD
RATES, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 09.
2. IAW REF A THE FOLLOWING 2009 RATES ARE EFFECTIVE 1 APR 09, READ
IN TWO COLUMNS: PLD AREA, 2009 FULL RATE:
ALDERGROVE, 418
CALGARY, 711
CAMBRIDGE, 71
COLD LAKE, 319
EDMONTON, 684
GUELPH, 167
HALIFAX, 631
HAMILTON, 414
KAMLOOPS/KELOWNA, 525
KITCHENER, 62
LETHBRIDGE, 234
MEAFORD, 77
MEDICINE HAT, 145
MONTREAL NORTH SHORE, 505
MONTREAL SOUTH SHORE, 376
MOOSE JAW, 284
NANAIMO, 75
QUEBEC CITY/VALCARTIER, 117
RED DEER, 327
REGINA, 62
SASKATOON, 382
SEPT-ILES, 107
ST JOHN S, 149
STRATFORD, 82
TORONTO AREA 1, 1485
TORONTO AREA 2, 506
TORONTO AREA 3, 522
TORONTO AREA 4, 819
TORONTO AREA 5, 1167
VANCOUVER, 1083
VICTORIA/ESQUIMALT, 816
3.  TRANSITIONAL PLD (TPLD) WAS ESTABLISHED AT LOCATIONS THAT
EXPERIENCED DECREASES IN PLD RATES AS A RESULT OF THE NEW PLD
METHODOLOGY INTRODUCED EFFECTIVE 1 JUL 07.  THE TPLD RATES CAN BE
FOUND AT REF B WHERE GROUP A COMPRISES OFFICERS IN THE RANK OF
CAPTAIN OR ABOVE, AND NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS IN THE RANK OF
WARRANT OFFICER OR ABOVE AND GROUP B COMPRISES OFFICERS IN THE RANK
OF LIEUTENANT OR BELOW, AND NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS IN THE RANK OF
SERGEANT OR BELOW. THE FOLLOWING ARE THE TB APPROVED TPLD RATES
EFFECTIVE 1 APR 09, READ IN THREE COLUMNS TPLD AREA, GROUP A FULL
RATE, GROUP B FULL RATE:
BARRIE/BORDEN, 58, 87
BRANTFORD, 76, 114
CAMBRIDGE, PLD, 85
CORNERBROOK, 55, 83
GRAND FALL/WINDSOR, 89, 133
GUELPH, PLD, 245
HALIFAX, PLD, PLD
HAMILTON, PLD, PLD
KINGSTON, NA, 16
KITCHENER, 113, 170
LONDON, NA, 46
MONTREAL NORTH SHORE, PLD, PLD
MONTREAL SOUTH SHORE, PLD, 404
NANAIMO, PLD, PLD
NIAGARA/ST CATHARINES, 116, 174
NORTH BAY, NA, 6
OTTAWA/GATINEAU, 131, 196
PETERBOROUGH, NA, 68
QUEBEC CITY/VALCARTIER, 126, 189
SEPT-ILES, PLD, 112
ST JOHN S, 205, 308
ST-HYACINTHE, NA, 24
STRATFORD, 138, 207
TORONTO AREA 1, PLD, 1586
TORONTO AREA 2, PLD, 670
TORONTO AREA 3, PLD, 543
TORONTO AREA 4, PLD, 1006
TORONTO AREA 5, PLD, 1377
WINDOR, 221, 332
4. IAW REF B CF PERSONNEL ARE ENTITLED TO THE GREATER OF PLD OR TPLD
FOR THEIR LOCATION. ACCORDINGLY, EVEN THOUGH THE FOLLOWING
LOCATIONS HAVE TPLD RATES, THEY ARE AUTHORIZED TO RECEIVE PLD VICE
TPLD EFFECTIVE 1 APR 09:
CAMBRIDGE (RANK GROUP A)
GUELPH (RANK GROUP A)
HALIFAX (RANK GROUP A AND B)
HAMILTON (RANK GROUP A AND B)
MONTREAL NORTH SHORE (RANK GROUP A AND B)
MONTREAL SOUTH SHORE (RANK GROUP A)
NANAIMO (RANK GROUP A AND B)
SEPT-ILES (RANK GROUP A)
TORONTO AREA 1 (RANK GROUP A)
TORONTO AREA 2 (RANK GROUP A)
TORONTO AREA 3 (RANK GROUP A)
TORONTO AREA 4 (RANK GROUP A)
TORONTO AREA 5 (RANK GROUP A)
5. LOCATIONS NOT LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE ARE NOT PLD OR TPLD AREAS
AND PERSONNEL AT THESE LOCATIONS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR EITHER
ALLOWANCE.
6. AS STATED PREVIOUSLY, PLD RATES MAY NOW BE SUBJECTED TO
SIGNIFICANT INCREASES OR DECREASES FROM YEAR-TO-YEAR, CF PERSONNEL
ARE HEREBY ADVISED NOT TO MAKE LONG-TERM FINANCIAL COMMITMENTS BASED
ON THE ABOVE RATES.
7. SIGNED BY MGEN W. SEMIANIW, CMP
END OF ENGLISH TEXT,

 

[CountDC]

This is absolutely poor advice.

Yes, you'll have to pay it back. But, the Grievance board is now recommending to the CDS to uphold several grievances where the member was not at fault for an overpayment, as there is an option for a ministerial waiver on the books, it is just never used. Grieve the decision, and in the end if changes arise from the Board's decision, you might get your money back. Now, this was based on substantial amounts paid over years, so each individual case may be handled differently.

Based on what?  Board recommendations that go no where?

Unless you can show one case of a member having an overpayment of pay and/allowances written off I will stand by my statement.  In 27 years including 3 years recently dealing with grievances I have yet to see anyone win this type of case.  Grievances are a long drawn out and painful process not to be taken lightly.  I recommend that people really look carefully at what they are grieving and if they really think they have a chance.  Personally I also think they should consider if it is right -grieving something just cause you can is not always the right thing to do.

The comment not at fault is a tough one.  As indicated in my prior - the regulations view is that we are at fault when receiving a payment we are not entitled to.  We are expected to know our pay entitlements and report anything out of the norm thus how can we not be at fault?  Don't waste time with "it is the clerks fault"  we got that covered when we made the member responsible for his own pay.  OUR screw up, YOUR fault ring a bell?  Personally hate it but I have seen many clerks use it.

 

[Pusser]

Based on what?  Board recommendations that go no where?

Unless you can show one case of a member having an overpayment of pay and/allowances written off I will stand by my statement.  In 27 years including 3 years recently dealing with grievances I have yet to see anyone win this type of case.  Grievances are a long drawn out and painful process not to be taken lightly.  I recommend that people really look carefully at what they are grieving and if they really think they have a chance.  Personally I also think they should consider if it is right -grieving something just cause you can is not always the right thing to do.

The comment not at fault is a tough one.  As indicated in my prior - the regulations view is that we are at fault when receiving a payment we are not entitled to.  We are expected to know our pay entitlements and report anything out of the norm thus how can we not be at fault?  Don't waste time with "it is the clerks fault"  we got that covered when we made the member responsible for his own pay.  OUR screw up, YOUR fault ring a bell?  Personally hate it but I have seen many clerks use it.

Actually, I have seen recovery action cancelled in cases where the "system" has screwed up and overpaid a member, so yes, it can and does happen.  Please note that these weren't cases where I "heard from someone, who was told by someone else...."  These were cases in which I did some of the actual staff work (some of my proudest moments).  However, it is very situation dependent and there are many factors to consider, so it is impossible to say one way or the other whether this particular case would win or lose.  Nevertheless, it may be worth a shot to grieve if the member truly feels he has been mistreated.  Much of the case would depend on what actions the member took to ensure that he was not overpaid.

Please note that the cases to which I'm referring to had nothing to do with PLD (which is a bag of snakes in its own right) and dealt mostly with the misapplication of regulations that were not financial unto themselves, but had a domino effect that resulted in overpayments.  By fixing the misapplication of the other regulations, we negated the requirement to recover the overpayment (which theoretically no longer existed).

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from Question Period yesterday:

Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP):  Mr. Speaker, members of the Canadian Forces are worried that the post living differential, or PLD, could be cut in half come April 1. The PLD helps military families cope with the high cost of living in certain Canadian cities.

    It is worth noting that, in most cases, Canadian Forces members do not choose their assignments. We demand incredible sacrifices of our military personnel and their families. They deserve a straight answer from the government. Will the PLD be cut or not?

Hon. Peter MacKay (Minister of National Defence, CPC):  Mr. Speaker, that is more prebudget speculation from the member opposite. There has been no decision taken on this issue.

    What is important is that our government is committed to providing the men and women of the Canadian Forces with the support they need to do the important jobs that we ask of them.

    What is a bit disingenuous is the alligator tears cried by members opposite. While our government has continually invested in new equipment, infrastructure, readiness, and personnel, the member and her party have consistently opposed all of these investments. I think they will find little comfort in this hypocritical question ....

 

[FSTO]

Can we at least get a cost of living increase?

Usually there is a yearly update on PLD, even if only to say there is no increase/decrease. But correct me if I am wrong but hasn't it been a couple of years since the last one?

 

[aesop081]

But correct me if I am wrong but hasn't it been a couple of years since the last one?

You are correct but the last one said "no change until further notice".

 

[Stoker]

Can we at least get a cost of living increase?

Usually there is a yearly update on PLD, even if only to say there is no increase/decrease. But correct me if I am wrong but hasn't it been a couple of years since the last one?

I think it was a couple of years since we had an update. I think the wage increase we are suppose to be getting will be an excuse to drop the PLD. At least he's being questioned on this.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Hon. Peter MacKay (Minister of National Defence, CPC):  Mr. Speaker, that is more prebudget speculation from the member opposite. There has been no decision taken on this issue.

Now that the budget date has been announced all "decisons," even those that have been made and are firmly in place, albeit pending release of the budget, "have not been taken" and are not "taken," by convention,, until the budget is brought down in the HoC. Many governments, including this one have ignored that convention, when it suits them, but it is still an 'honest' parliamentary answer: budget confidentiality rules.

 

[Adam]

Removed in accordance with site owner direction.

Milnet.ca Staff

I wonder how many Reg force members with more than 20 years in will release before their severance vanishes?  Could be a lot of promotions and postings next year.

 

[Occam]

I don't think anyone's severance is going to vanish, as I understand it.  In the Public Service, those public servants who belong to unions who negotiated away their severance pay didn't lose their severance benefits, they will just cease to accumulate any further growth to their severance benefit.  Those entering the PS as members of those particular unions would not have entitlement to severance from square one.

 

[Stoker]

Removed in accordance with site owner direction.

Milnet.ca Staff

I wonder how many Reg force members with more than 20 years in will release before their severance vanishes?  Could be a lot of promotions and postings next year.

From what has been briefed whoever currently qualified for the severance will still receive it up until April 1st, anyone just getting won't be getting one. I think this puts us in line with the public service, didn't they give up theirs  some time ago? No word on if the reserve gratuity will be affected.

 

[ModlrMike]

Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP):  Mr. Speaker, members of the Canadian Forces are worried that the post living differential, or PLD, could be cut in half come April 1. The PLD helps military families cope with the high cost of living in certain Canadian cities.

The NDP concerned about CF members? Now I know the rapture is soon upon us!