Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Lumber]

Can someone help me out with the details of how CFHD works.

So, you look up the table for pay levels, and let's say I make $7200/month, so I'm at Pay Level 6 and live in Halifax. Accordinly, my CFCD amount is $350.

However, the CANFORGEN says that the CFHD will be calculated annually based on:

"The pre-determined average rent for your place of work minus a fixed percentage of your gross monthly salary."

Average 2-bedroom rent in Halifax is around $2250, (some say as high as $2350) and let's use "25%" as the percent of gross monthly salary, because it's the number that keeps kicking around. So, 25% of my $7200 salary is $1800.

So, $2250 - $1800 = $450.

But the tables said my CFHD is $350... is it $350 or $450?

I'm confused.

 

[Quirky]

Well actually now those promotions won’t help, as your CFHD will go down as your wage goes up.

Which raises another point, why bother going up in rank if you’re home pay is effectively negligible? All this did was severely close the gap between the Cpl and MWO. All you’d have to do is some simple math and decide whether getting promoted into a higher pay bracket is worth losing on CFHD. Im sure people are doing the math already.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Which raises another point, why bother going up in rank if you’re home pay is effectively negligible? All this did was severely close the gap between the Cpl and MWO. All you’d have to do is some simple math and decide whether getting promoted into a higher pay bracket is worth losing on CFHD. Im sure people are doing the math already.

Pension %s; that would be the major difference to me.

 

[Infanteer]

I think the suggestion that the stipulation that those in PMQs are not eligible, and the 7 year cap, are going to result in substantial retention problems in the near and 5-10 year time frames is a very fair one.

Fair enough - I'll be interested to see what @Underway 's Google spreadsheet reveals, and if this specific sub-set of the CAF population will be disadvantaged or not by the change in policy.

 

[Infanteer]

Which raises another point, why bother going up in rank if you’re home pay is effectively negligible? All this did was severely close the gap between the Cpl and MWO. All you’d have to do is some simple math and decide whether getting promoted into a higher pay bracket is worth losing on CFHD. Im sure people are doing the math already.

I don't know....new challenges, new responsibility, different positions.

 

[Quirky]

Pension %s; that would be the major difference to me.

For sure if that’s your overall goal.

If you’re in the CAF already this looks like a huge hit. If you’re thinking about joining, you see a CFHD and 10% pay raise. It’s about perspective. The CAF doesn’t really care about retention as much as recruiting. Problem with that is, all your experience will be gone before the recruits can make their way through the training system. Fun times ahead.

 

[markppcli]

Fair enough - I'll be interested to see what @Underway 's Google spreadsheet reveals, and if this specific sub-set of the CAF population will be disadvantaged or not by the change in policy.

I’m curious to see if / when / where CFHA publishes their new rates and if they’ll charge by rank now to compensate.

I’m editing this to not add more posts


For reference a Sgt in Edmonton would see their pay going up from 6422 a month to 6803.

Increase of 381 a month to your monthly.

This is incentive 4 for CFHD. CFB Edmonton CFHD caps out at 3.

So this April you loose you 684 in pld.

381-684 = - 303 a month.

We don’t care about Sgts though, let’s talk Cpl Bloggins.

Cpl 1 goes up by 273 this year (5589 to 5862)

CFHD incentive 3 from Edmonton is… 50 dollars a month.

So 273+50 = 323 - 684 = -361 a month

Let’s do a Pte 3 just got to Edmonton and he’s been allowed to move out. He’s OFP and per last December’s order is Pte 3

4485 goes up to 5123 nice big jump of 638.

That puts him at level 2 and 500 a month.

So he’s up 1138 - 684 = 454.

So there’s your win level in Edmonton. If you’re above Pte you’re loosing money.

I’m open to being corrected on my math.

Canadian Forces Housing Differential - Canada.ca

The Canadian Forces Housing Differential policy is a sophisticated approach (inclusive of GBA+ analysis) with the goal of assisting CAF members in adjusting to housing costs in different locations within Canada. Thus, providing military members (when applicable) an equitable differential for...

www.canada.ca

 

[dimsum]

I’m curious to see if / when / where CFHA publishes their new rates and if they’ll charge by rank now to compensate.

I’m editing this to not add more posts


For reference a Sgt in Edmonton would see their pay going up from 6422 a month to 6803.

Increase of 381 a month to your monthly.

This is incentive 4 for CFHD. CFB Edmonton CFHD caps out at 3.

So this April you loose you 684 in pld.

381-684 = - 303 a month.

We don’t care about Sgts though, let’s talk Cpl Bloggins.

Cpl 1 goes up by 273 this year (5589 to 5862)

CFHD incentive 3 from Edmonton is… 50 dollars a month.

So 273+50 = 323 - 684 = -361 a month

Then those rates better be for the whole country, not subject to market value

 

[Ludoc]

A newly promoted Corporal in Edmonton currently makes $5,589 a month. Add $684 for PLD for a total of $6,273.

After the pay bump they will make $5,862. putting them in pay level 3. This gives them $50 of CFHD for a total of $5,912.

Thus, they will be making $316 less a month. Or $3,792 less a year.

I'm glad I am not in Edmonton and don't have to tell my troops they are making $300 less a month.

Please, check my math and tell me I am wrong.

Pay rates from: Pay rates for non-commissioned members - Canada.ca

 

[Furniture]

I did some quick post-it note math based on SO4 for each rank in three locations.

Cpl:

Base - 6273
Victoria - 7323
Edmonton - 6323
Ottawa - 7023

MCpl:

Base - 6704 (Cpl + 431)
Victoria - 7504 (Cpl + 181)
Edmonton - 6704 ( Cpl +381)
Ottawa - 7204 (Cpl +181)

Sgt:

Base - 7129 (Cpl +856) (MCpl +425)
Victoria - 7779 (Cpl + 465) (MCpl +275)
Edmonton - 7129 (Cpl +806) (MCpl +425)
Ottawa - 7494 (Cpl +471) (MCpl +290)

WO:

Base - 7691 (Cpl +1418) (MCpl +987) (Sgt +562)
Victoria - 8241 (Cpl +918) (MCpl +737) (Sgt +462)
Edmonton - 7691 (Cpl +1368) (MCpl +987) (Sgt +562)
Ottawa - 7941 (Cpl +918) (MCpl +737) (Sgt +447)

I might have messed up with a typo or two, but from this you can see that some bases (Victoria, Ottawa) make promotion less appealing than others.

Cpl to MCpl is always a weird one, but look at MCpl to Sgt in Victoria and Esquimalt, for five years in rank as a Sgt, you're making just $275-290 a month more than a MCpl before taxes. That's a lot of extra BS for not a lot of extra cash.

On a more positive note, a Cpl in Ottawa will make $20 more a month than I did as a PO 1 SO3 for the last year.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The biggest issue I see with this is PLD was supposed to make it so there was no financial penalty to being posted anywhere, i.e. your money goes roughly as far no matter where you end up.

Not saying it succeeded 100% in that but it was a effort.

Now someone who is posted to a more expensive area, especially as a more senior member will take a direct financial hit as opposed to someone posted to a less expensive area.

This could actively discourage people from taking certain postings and can cause undue hardship to many.

 

[markppcli]

I did some quick post-it note math based on SO4 for each rank in three locations.

Cpl:

Base - 6273
Victoria - 7323
Edmonton - 6323
Ottawa - 7023

MCpl:

Base - 6704 (Cpl + 431)
Victoria - 7504 (Cpl + 181)
Edmonton - 6704 ( Cpl +381)
Ottawa - 7204 (Cpl +181)

Sgt:

Base - 7129 (Cpl +856) (MCpl +425)
Victoria - 7779 (Cpl + 465) (MCpl +275)
Edmonton - 7129 (Cpl +806) (MCpl +425)
Ottawa - 7494 (Cpl +471) (MCpl +290)

WO:

Base - 7691 (Cpl +1418) (MCpl +987) (Sgt +562)
Victoria - 8241 (Cpl +918) (MCpl +737) (Sgt +462)
Edmonton - 7691 (Cpl +1368) (MCpl +987) (Sgt +562)
Ottawa - 7941 (Cpl +918) (MCpl +737) (Sgt +447)

I might have messed up with a typo or two, but from this you can see that some bases (Victoria, Ottawa) make promotion less appealing than others.

Did you factor in the incentive based CFHD?


Incentive 1 is 0-3699, so only eligible to Pte 1….

 

[Furniture]

Did you factor in the incentive based CFHD?


Incentive 1 is 0-3699, so only eligible to Pte 1….

Yes, I used the appropriate pay level for each rank.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I created a spreadsheet that compares the gross paycheck for all NCMs (except SOF Operators and SARTECs), for all cities that received PLD or will now receive CAFHD. Come July 2023, everyone will have an increase in paycheck, albeit some will make very marginally more (MWO Spec 1 will make 1% more for example).

 

[Infanteer]

This could actively discourage people from taking certain postings and can cause undue hardship to many.

This is what benefits can create now.
This is what happens when you tell someone in a field unit in Edmonton making PLD and LDA that they are getting posted out - huge drop in pay. This is what you call perverse incentives - when you create something intended to help the system but it ends up hindering things.

Edmonton has been bracing for this for years, as it was known that its PLD rate was a higher relative to other locations and in relation to the actual cost of living there. It's unfortunate that some of those soldiers are going to be on the outside of this policy.

 

[Furniture]

I created a spreadsheet that compares the gross paycheck for all NCMs (except SOF Operators and SARTECs), for all cities that received PLD or will now receive CAFHD. Come July 2023, everyone will have an increase in paycheck, albeit some will make very marginally more (MWO Spec 1 will make 1% more for example).

Assuming they are not in RHUs.

 

[markppcli]

I created a spreadsheet that compares the gross paycheck for all NCMs (except SOF Operators and SARTECs), for all cities that received PLD or will now receive CAFHD. Come July 2023, everyone will have an increase in paycheck, albeit some will make very marginally more (MWO Spec 1 will make 1% more for example).

From 2024 rates or 2023 ? Unless I’m missing math here everyone in Edmonton above Pte is facing a net loss.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Assuming they are not in RHUs.

Yes. But I would argue they have been benefiting for years.

 

[SupersonicMax]

From 2024 rates or 2023 ? Unless I’m missing math here everyone in Edmonton above Pte is facing a net loss.

2023 rates Edmonton loses marginally or gains marginally across the board (from 1 to 3%, except Privates)

 

[Underway]

Here's a small taste....

PTE 2022
	Pay level	Trade group	PI 1	PI 2	PI 3
	1	Standard	3329	4064	4885
PLD VICTORIA			810	810	810
Total			4139	4874	5695
PTE 2023
	Pay level	Trade group	PI 1	PI 2	PI 3
	1	Standard	3492	4262	5123
CFHD VICTORIA			1850	1500	1500
Total			5342	5762	6623
PTE 2024
	Pay level	Trade group	PI 1	PI 2	PI 3
	1	Standard	3562	4347	5225
CFHD VICTORIA			1850	1500	1500
Total			5412	5847	6725

Basically as a Pte your laughing.... Your increase is looking about 1000.

There is a lot of tables to go through, I'm still figuring out how to best make this interactive... might take a day or two.