Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[CountDC]

Created a completely new gmail account for this as I don't really want to deal with ppl getting access to my normal account.

CAF NCM PAY CALCULATOR 2023-24

There are likely errors as its a bit late. This is for ESQUIMALT and VICTORIA only. If you want to do the math for your own area then you'll need to go into the CFHD Website yourself and enter the place data for different pay scales into CFHD ALLOWANCES sheet. I wasn't going to try and cut and paste all of those in there.

For officers I didn't bother to add their pay sheets. That's a problem for another day as their entry programs are all over the place. Figure it out yourself!

There may be errors, its late, and I caught a few. But double check yourself.

Thanks. Didn't check everything but if this is accurate a Sgt(4) in Toronto area 1 is looking at a loss of $389 in Jul from the 2022 total pay. 2022 pay 6683 and PLD Area 1 1485 = 8168, 2023 pay 7129 and CFHD 650=7779. Considering the state of MCpl/Sgts in trade and the lack of interest already in posting to Toronto I see this as not a good thing.
To make it more fun I did the 2023 base pay with PLD to compare Jun pay to Jul. Yikes. Jun 7129+1485=8614, Jul 7129+650=7779. Total pay drop is 835 a month or 10,020 a year (coincidentally this is approx the net PLD). This puts retirement a lot closer.

 

[Underway]

Thanks. Didn't check everything but if this is accurate a Sgt(4) in Toronto area 1 is looking at a loss of $389 in Jul from the 2022 total pay. 2022 pay 6683 and PLD Area 1 1485 = 8168, 2023 pay 7129 and CFHD 650=7779. Considering the state of MCpl/Sgts in trade and the lack of interest already in posting to Toronto I see this as not a good thing.
To make it more fun I did the 2023 base pay with PLD to compare Jun pay to Jul. Yikes. Jun 7129+1485=8614, Jul 7129+650=7779. Total pay drop is 835 a month or 10,020 a year (coincidentally this is approx the net PLD). This puts retirement a lot closer.

Also there is ONE BIG ERROR/ASSUMPTION in that spreadsheet. I used the POST RAISE 2022 numbers as the baseline. There is still a ~4-5% raise from current pay for 2022 that needs to be considered.

I discovered that this morning. I'll add an extra column today at some point to account for that, if I can find the Pre Raise amounts somewhere (PM me with details if you have the original CBI location).

The overall raise is going to be 10.5%

I don't see the CANFORGEN copied out here on this thread, which I guarantee means that some people bitching about the missing middle didn't account for that in their complaints. Because why not just complain instead of doing the math. Math is hard.

For the missing middle the pay increase over the next two years (including the backpay increases from 2020 levels) means that almost everyone is getting ~ a $10'000 pay increase in base pay. So a Sgt 4 is going to get $87'264 annually by 2024.

Here's a good place to look at your overall increases: Canadian Armed Forces members to receive pay increase

 

[Halifax Tar]

Also there is ONE BIG ERROR/ASSUMPTION in that spreadsheet. I used the POST RAISE 2022 numbers as the baseline. There is still a ~4-5% raise from current pay for 2022 that needs to be considered.

I discovered that this morning. I'll add an extra column today at some point to account for that, if I can find the Pre Raise amounts somewhere (PM me with details if you have the original CBI location).

The overall raise is going to be 10.5%

I don't see the CANFORGEN copied out here on this thread, which I guarantee means that some people bitching about the missing middle didn't account for that in their complaints. Because why not just complain instead of doing the math. Math is hard.

For the missing middle the pay increase over the next two years (including the backpay increases from 2020 levels) means that almost everyone is getting ~ a $10'000 pay increase in base pay. So a Sgt 4 is going to get $87'264 annually by 2024.

Here's a good place to look at your overall increases: Canadian Armed Forces members to receive pay increase

Like I said, Aug 1 will tell me everything I need to know. That will show what's getting deposited into my account. I like Aug one because all the hub bub from the back pay ect ect should be finished and true numbers rolling in.

But, by my math I will about break even... maybe 50/100$ more for a year until my salary puts me out of range...

 

[MJP]

The overall raise is going to be 10.5%

I don't see the CANFORGEN copied out here on this thread, which I guarantee means that some people bitching about the missing middle didn't account for that in their complaints. Because why not just complain instead of doing the math. Math is hard.

For the missing middle the pay increase over the next two years (including the backpay increases from 2020 levels) means that almost everyone is getting ~ a $10'000 pay increase in base pay. So a Sgt 4 is going to get $87'264 annually by 2024.

That is one of the things that gets me about all the teeth ghashing, more on REDDIT than here but lots of folks are making erroneous statements about their overall pay based on bad math or cherry picking data to skew it (willfully or unknowingly). Saw one comment where the guy was complaining about a troop that lived in the shacks losing PLD which a troop living in the shacks doesn't get in any case.

Like most things we drop massive changes and then hope a unit CoC can message them in the right context. I would have loved to have seen a CFHD and pay spreadsheet created either online or distributed (although how 2023 would it have been to be a simple online calculator) so any soldier can go calculate for themselves what this means for them. I have no doubt there will be a few enterprising souls like @Underway that will create something that likely could have helped message this change better

 

[Eye In The Sky]

It's not a pay increase, as a Log O friend was quick to point out to me last night. It's a economic increase - meant to adjust for COL and it doesn't match. They also pointed out it was "nice" to lock us in for 2% in 2024 which will push the next EI down the road to 2027 using historical trends.

 

[CountDC]

I used Toronto Rates which just happens to correspond to Esq.

Been telling people that too - this is not a pay increase it is an economic increase which never does actually match the COL.

Personally I am not a fan of linking benefits to pay rates. Everyone that moves to Toronto, Victoria, etc will have the same financial impact on their personal finances. Just because one gets paid more and is able to hopefully absorb the impact better doesn't mean they shouldn't be protected against that impact the same. is it really fair that Cpl Jones and Maj Logan both go from an area paying $1000 a month to an area paying $2000 but only the Cpl gets an off set benefit? Both are now paying an extra $1000 due to posting, both most likely had that $1000 budgeted for somewhere.

 

[Underway]

I have no doubt there will be a few enterprising souls like @Underway that will create something that likely could have helped message this change better

Mind emailing my CoC? I'm a bit thin on good feedback notes! Lol

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Also there is ONE BIG ERROR/ASSUMPTION in that spreadsheet. I used the POST RAISE 2022 numbers as the baseline. There is still a ~4-5% raise from current pay for 2022 that needs to be considered.

I discovered that this morning. I'll add an extra column today at some point to account for that, if I can find the Pre Raise amounts somewhere (PM me with details if you have the original CBI location).

The historical rates are located under "references" on the right hand side (I think that's what you're looking for)

Military pay - Canada.ca

This page displays information about pay for Canadian Armed Forces members.

www.canada.ca

Military pay - Canada.ca

This page displays information about pay for Canadian Armed Forces members.

www.canada.ca

The overall raise is going to be 10.5%

I don't see the CANFORGEN copied out here on this thread, which I guarantee means that some people bitching about the missing middle didn't account for that in their complaints. Because why not just complain instead of doing the math. Math is hard.

I've done my personal math. I go up in base salary from the EI, but lose PLD and HD because I am on IR. What I told me wife is "my pension will be slightly better, but after all is said and done, my take up is up $58 before taxes".

My hope was my pension would get a boost, personally, and I am ok with the PLD/HD thing. It is what it is. But, not everyone, especially more junior members with young families, are closing in on CRA/release and are doing pension estimates.

Here is the CANFORGEN


CANFORGEN 055/23 CMP 029/23 211729Z MAR 23

2023 CAF ECONOMIC INCREASE: NCMS, GSO AND PILOTS, MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS

UNCLASSIFIED

REF: CBI 204 PAY OF OFFICERS AND NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS

1. THIS CANFORGEN IS TO INFORM CAF MEMBERS THAT ON 9 MAR 23 THE TREASURY BOARD OF CANADA APPROVED A MULTI-YEAR ECONOMIC INCREASE (EI) FOR NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS, GENERAL SERVICE OFFICERS AND PILOTS IN THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT-COLONEL AND BELOW, AS WELL AS ALL MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS AS FOLLOWS:1.5 PERCENT, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 21
3.5 PERCENT, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 22
3.0 PERCENT, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 23, AND
2.0 PERCENT, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 24


2. IN ADDITION TO THE EI, THE RATES OF PAY FOR NCM CPL TO MWO HAVE BEEN ADJUSTED IN THE STANDARD AND SPECIALIST 2 TRADE GROUPS. THE REALIGNMENT OF THE RATES OF PAY FOR THE STANDARD TRADE GROUP WILL CLOSE THE CURRENT GAP BETWEEN STANDARD AND SPECIALIST 1 PAY OF THIRTEEN PERCENT TO SIX PERCENT TO TEN TO FIVE PERCENT EFFECTIVE 1 APRIL 2023. THIS IN NO WAY DEVALUES THE SKILLS AND COMPETENCIES OF THE OCCUPATIONS ASSIGNED TO THE SPEC 1 TRADE GROUP BUT AIMS TO RECOGNIZE THE INCREASED SKILLS AND COMPETENCIES THAT ARE REQUIRED IN OCCUPATIONS THAT DO NOT MEET THE THRESHOLD FOR ASSIGNMENT TO SPEC 1 AND RECOGNIZES THE ADDITIONAL SKILLS REQUIRED OF THOSE ASSIGNED TO THE SPEC 2 TRADE GROUP. THE PREVIOUS METHODOLOGY HAD ALSO LED TO A COMPOUNDING INCREASE TO SPECIALIST 1 AND 2 RATES OF PAY WHICH IS NOW BEING CORRECTED

3. MEMBERS WILL RECEIVE THEIR LUMP SUM PAYMENTS FOR THE RETROACTIVE INCREASES 1 APR 21 TO 30 JUN 23 ON THEIR MID-JUL PAY

4. INFORMATION ON THIS EI CAN BE FOUND AT: Not Found - Canada.ca

 

[dapaterson]

Where are you on IR from? In that location, would your pay qualify you for HD? (If you've elected an IPR, the answer is an immediate "no"). If the answer is "Yes, in the location I am on IR from I would be entitled to CAF HD" then my understanding is that since that is where you are paying for a principal residence, you would be eligible.

So, for example, if you are on IR in Greenwood, but have your principal residence in Comox, then the assessment of your entitlement is based on Comox.

 

[Underway]

The historical rates are located under "references" on the right hand side (I think that's what you're looking for)

Military pay - Canada.ca

This page displays information about pay for Canadian Armed Forces members.

www.canada.ca

Military pay - Canada.ca

This page displays information about pay for Canadian Armed Forces members.

www.canada.ca

I've done my personal math. I go up in base salary from the EI, but lose PLD and HD because I am on IR. What I told me wife is "my pension will be slightly better, but after all is said and done, my take up is up $58 before taxes".

My hope was my pension would get a boost, personally, and I am ok with the PLD/HD thing. It is what it is. But, not everyone, especially more junior members with young families, are closing in on CRA/release and are doing pension estimates.

Here is the CANFORGEN


CANFORGEN 055/23 CMP 029/23 211729Z MAR 23

2023 CAF ECONOMIC INCREASE: NCMS, GSO AND PILOTS, MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS

UNCLASSIFIED

REF: CBI 204 PAY OF OFFICERS AND NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS

1. THIS CANFORGEN IS TO INFORM CAF MEMBERS THAT ON 9 MAR 23 THE TREASURY BOARD OF CANADA APPROVED A MULTI-YEAR ECONOMIC INCREASE (EI) FOR NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS, GENERAL SERVICE OFFICERS AND PILOTS IN THE RANK OF LIEUTENANT-COLONEL AND BELOW, AS WELL AS ALL MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS AS FOLLOWS:1.5 PERCENT, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 21
3.5 PERCENT, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 22
3.0 PERCENT, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 23, AND
2.0 PERCENT, EFFECTIVE 1 APR 24


2. IN ADDITION TO THE EI, THE RATES OF PAY FOR NCM CPL TO MWO HAVE BEEN ADJUSTED IN THE STANDARD AND SPECIALIST 2 TRADE GROUPS. THE REALIGNMENT OF THE RATES OF PAY FOR THE STANDARD TRADE GROUP WILL CLOSE THE CURRENT GAP BETWEEN STANDARD AND SPECIALIST 1 PAY OF THIRTEEN PERCENT TO SIX PERCENT TO TEN TO FIVE PERCENT EFFECTIVE 1 APRIL 2023. THIS IN NO WAY DEVALUES THE SKILLS AND COMPETENCIES OF THE OCCUPATIONS ASSIGNED TO THE SPEC 1 TRADE GROUP BUT AIMS TO RECOGNIZE THE INCREASED SKILLS AND COMPETENCIES THAT ARE REQUIRED IN OCCUPATIONS THAT DO NOT MEET THE THRESHOLD FOR ASSIGNMENT TO SPEC 1 AND RECOGNIZES THE ADDITIONAL SKILLS REQUIRED OF THOSE ASSIGNED TO THE SPEC 2 TRADE GROUP. THE PREVIOUS METHODOLOGY HAD ALSO LED TO A COMPOUNDING INCREASE TO SPECIALIST 1 AND 2 RATES OF PAY WHICH IS NOW BEING CORRECTED

3. MEMBERS WILL RECEIVE THEIR LUMP SUM PAYMENTS FOR THE RETROACTIVE INCREASES 1 APR 21 TO 30 JUN 23 ON THEIR MID-JUL PAY

4. INFORMATION ON THIS EI CAN BE FOUND AT: Not Found - Canada.ca

To be clear, I was refering mainly to those pilling on who were either a) out of the CAF, or b) rushing to the defence of others without knowing the exact pay situation. There were going to be cases where people lost out. The bucket is one size.

I expect people have done their own math regarding their own costs.

As for this 30 million savings thing. How much you want to bet that due to recalculations every year the CFHD will eventually eat into that buffer money? I don't expect that housing costs will be diving anytime soon (at least rent, which is a vertical tragectory).

edit: Thanks for the historical pay rates. I'll add those in today and correct that error.

 

[Stoker]

So we were briefed today that the economic increase was to account for the PLD getting replaced and is not the actual pay increase we still are due once the PS finishes their negotiations. Good news if true but I don't think that's correct.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

People in the CAF don't seem to understand that compensation isn't only about Salary. PLD was a part of a compensation package. If I were still in, I would be losing a pretty significant chunk of my overall compensation.

Good thing I don't need to worry about that anymore

 

[Halifax Tar]

So we were briefed today that the economic increase was to account for the PLD getting replaced and is not the actual pay increase we still are due once the PS finishes their negotiations. Good news if true but I don't think that's correct.

I was briefed the exact same thing. Its validity will be shown in time.

 

[dapaterson]

So we were briefed today that the economic increase was to account for the PLD getting replaced and is not the actual pay increase we still are due once the PS finishes their negotiations. Good news if true but I don't think that's correct.

That is not correct.

 

[Stoker]

That is not correct.

Didn't sound right either. More than likely anything over the 10% due to PS negotiations we may get topped up. I heard that as well, can you confirm?

 

[dapaterson]

That has been past practice.

 

[Remius]

Didn't sound right either. More than likely anything over the 10% due to PS negotiations we may get topped up. I heard that as well, can you confirm?

That is typically how it works.

 

[CountDC]

We were told today that this is not part of the pay increase to come in the future when the PS negotiations are done. This is completed separate and is done in order to remove the PLD. We should see a matching increase when the contracts are settled - key I picked up was "We should". Believe it when it happens. Be nice if true as these pay increases count towards pension vice the PLD that doesn't.

 

[Remius]

We were told today that this is not part of the pay increase to come in the future when the PS negotiations are done. This is completed separate and is done in order to remove the PLD. We should see a matching increase when the contracts are settled - key I picked up was "We should". Believe it when it happens. Be nice if true as these pay increases count towards pension vice the PLD that doesn't.

Sounds like wishful thinking. I mean great if it is but seems to me that would have been in the messaging. Lots of erroneous info being passed around.

 

[brihard]

We were told today that this is not part of the pay increase to come in the future when the PS negotiations are done. This is completed separate and is done in order to remove the PLD. We should see a matching increase when the contracts are settled - key I picked up was "We should". Believe it when it happens. Be nice if true as these pay increases count towards pension vice the PLD that doesn't.

If that’s correct, CDS needs to get that messaging out ASAP, while still managing to not explicitly promise anything.