Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[Navy_Pete]

How much of that steel and aluminum comes from the US?

Was talking to someone a few weeks ago on the construction side; the tariffs are causing havoc on the supply/demand side for non-tariffed steel as well, so they are now getting things like suppliers only holding the price for 24 hours on a quote.

But if you have a product that isn't tariffed, that starts at 25 or 50% cheaper, you can still increase your price and be cheaper, so it's driving a lot of prices upwards.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Don't believe that anyone has posted this article from about 10 days ago.

Not a ringing endorsement for buying CDN built icebreakers.....

U.S. in Talks to Buy 15 Icebreakers from Finland, Trump Says at NATO Summit​

At the NATO summit in The Hague President Trump confirmed that the U.S. was in negotiations with Finland to buy up to 15 icebreakers from the country, including acquiring a used vessel currently available.

“I want to buy icebreakers, you are very good at icebreakers,” he said in response to a media inquiry from Finland during a press conference.

"You are the ‘King of Icebreakers’, you make ‘em good, really good. So we negotiated for 15 icebreakers, one of them is available now, it’s 5-6 years old, and we are trying to buy it, and trying to make a good deal.”

U.S. in Talks to Buy 15 Icebreakers from Finland, Trump Says at NATO Summit

U.S. efforts to expand the country’s icebreaker fleet continue to pick up steam. At the NATO summit in The Hague President Trump confirmed that the U.S. was in negotiations with Finland to buy up to 15 icebreakers from the country, including acquiring a used vessel available currently.

gcaptain.com

 

[YZT580]

Don't believe that anyone has posted this article from about 10 days ago.

Not a ringing endorsement for buying CDN built icebreakers.....

U.S. in Talks to Buy 15 Icebreakers from Finland, Trump Says at NATO Summit​

At the NATO summit in The Hague President Trump confirmed that the U.S. was in negotiations with Finland to buy up to 15 icebreakers from the country, including acquiring a used vessel currently available.

“I want to buy icebreakers, you are very good at icebreakers,” he said in response to a media inquiry from Finland during a press conference.

"You are the ‘King of Icebreakers’, you make ‘em good, really good. So we negotiated for 15 icebreakers, one of them is available now, it’s 5-6 years old, and we are trying to buy it, and trying to make a good deal.”

U.S. in Talks to Buy 15 Icebreakers from Finland, Trump Says at NATO Summit

U.S. efforts to expand the country’s icebreaker fleet continue to pick up steam. At the NATO summit in The Hague President Trump confirmed that the U.S. was in negotiations with Finland to buy up to 15 icebreakers from the country, including acquiring a used vessel available currently.

gcaptain.com

But doesn't Davies own one of the major Finnish yards?

 

[Czech_pivo]

But doesn't Davies own one of the major Finnish yards?

It owns Helsinki Shipyard, which is briefly mentioned in the article but its not one of the yards that is talked about as possibly having a contract with the USCG. The article mentions that Rauma Marine Constructions could possibly have a contract valued at 2.7b USD in building 3-5 medium icebreakers for the USCG.

 

[calculus]

Interesting comment made in the Hurly Burly podcast by Admiral Topshee about the USCG wanting to buy AOPS, because it's "exactly the type of ship they are looking for".

 

[Czech_pivo]

Interesting comment made in the Hurly Burly podcast by Admiral Topshee about the USCG wanting to buy AOPS, because it's "exactly the type of ship they are looking for".

Loooonnnnng interview. Can you provide the timestamp of when this is discussed?

 

[Underway]

Loooonnnnng interview. Can you provide the timestamp of when this is discussed?

I listen to these when I drive. There is a lot of information in here.

Coles notes: We have really good shipbuild capacity right now (USN Admiral was amazed at the facilities) and the last AOPS was one month faster than the one before it. And the final RCN AOPS will be faster as well. USCG called and asked if we would be able to sell them ships because "its the exact type of thing they are looking for".

(editorial: USCG wants these as they are the exact thing they want... generally when another country looks at your platform and decides its what they want then that goes into the "this is a good ship" category)

 

[Czech_pivo]

I listen to these when I drive. There is a lot of information in here.

Coles notes: We have really good shipbuild capacity right now (USN Admiral was amazed at the facilities) and the last AOPS was one month faster than the one before it. And the final RCN AOPS will be faster as well. USCG called and asked if we would be able to sell them ships because "its the exact type of thing they are looking for".

(editorial: USCG wants these as they are the exact thing they want... generally when another country looks at your platform and decides its what they want then that goes into the "this is a good ship" category)

Absolute travesty that we are not able to take advantage of this -

 

[Rainbow1910]

I listen to these when I drive. There is a lot of information in here.

Coles notes: We have really good shipbuild capacity right now (USN Admiral was amazed at the facilities) and the last AOPS was one month faster than the one before it. And the final RCN AOPS will be faster as well. USCG called and asked if we would be able to sell them ships because "its the exact type of thing they are looking for".

(editorial: USCG wants these as they are the exact thing they want... generally when another country looks at your platform and decides its what they want then that goes into the "this is a good ship" category)

The recent USCG RFI for their Arctic Security Cutter program basically fits the AOPS perfectly, the big issue is that Irving is entirely unable to build them any ships and thus the efficiencies of scale would be lost if the hypothetical build is sent elsewhere.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I listen to these when I drive. There is a lot of information in here.

Coles notes: We have really good shipbuild capacity right now (USN Admiral was amazed at the facilities) and the last AOPS was one month faster than the one before it. And the final RCN AOPS will be faster as well. USCG called and asked if we would be able to sell them ships because "its the exact type of thing they are looking for".

(editorial: USCG wants these as they are the exact thing they want... generally when another country looks at your platform and decides its what they want then that goes into the "this is a good ship" category)

What about selling them the 2 CCG ships on the docket to be built? I thought that I've heard rumblings on here that the CCG didn't really want these 2 ships anyways.

 

[Rainbow1910]

What about selling them the 2 CCG ships on the docket to be built? I thought that I've heard rumblings on here that the CCG didn't really want these 2 ships anyways.

The CCG would have rather had their own specific vessels designed from the ground up however, their pair of vessels will be replacing/supplementing the existing CCGS Cape Roger (1977), CCGS Cygnus (1981) and CCGS Leonard J. Cowley (1984) on their vital East Coast/Northern fisheries enforcement duties. Given how stressed and full the Canadian domestic shipbuilding industry is and how old the fisheries enforcement fleet within the CCG is, we cannot afford to sell off our own vessels to placate the Americans.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect we could offer to build one AOPs/CCGAOP's for them right now and not interfere with the RCD programe. The only challenge will be long lead items, but if the USCG gave them the green light for either version, they could start on the basic modules, right now.

 

[dapaterson]

I listen to these when I drive. There is a lot of information in here.

Coles notes: We have really good shipbuild capacity right now (USN Admiral was amazed at the facilities) and the last AOPS was one month faster than the one before it. And the final RCN AOPS will be faster as well. USCG called and asked if we would be able to sell them ships because "its the exact type of thing they are looking for".

(editorial: USCG wants these as they are the exact thing they want... generally when another country looks at your platform and decides its what they want then that goes into the "this is a good ship" category)

No, the RCN taught me that it's impossible to buy another nation's design off the shelf, you must spend years and millions customizing it.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The CCG would have rather had their own specific vessels designed from the ground up however, their pair of vessels will be replacing/supplementing the existing CCGS Cape Roger (1977), CCGS Cygnus (1981) and CCGS Leonard J. Cowley (1984) on their vital East Coast/Northern fisheries enforcement duties. Given how stressed and full the Canadian domestic shipbuilding industry is and how old the fisheries enforcement fleet within the CCG is, we cannot afford to sell off our own vessels to placate the Americans.

Interesting - typical Canada solution - retire 3 ships and replace them with 2.

 

[Underway]

There are other ways to do this. Sell them the design is one of them. The US has similar rules about building ships in country, particularly with the current Fed Gov't all about shipbuilding. The ICE pact may have an effect, build parts of the ship here (bow sections at the Iriving lot across the harbour from the main sheds) and then ship them south.

Lots of ideas. Same thing with Seaspan, they have a design team that could be subcontracted to do work.

Furthermore we don't actually know if there is spare capacity at Irving. I suspect not, but there may be a way if they were to add workforce, find another location to build some of the stuff etc...

 

[DBNSG]

There are other ways to do this. Sell them the design is one of them. The US has similar rules about building ships in country, particularly with the current Fed Gov't all about shipbuilding. The ICE pact may have an effect, build parts of the ship here (bow sections at the Iriving lot across the harbour from the main sheds) and then ship them south.

Lots of ideas. Same thing with Seaspan, they have a design team that could be subcontracted to do work.

Furthermore we don't actually know if there is spare capacity at Irving. I suspect not, but there may be a way if they were to add workforce, find another location to build some of the stuff etc...

YOO HOO, Saint John Drydock waves frantically.

 

[Navy_Pete]

YOO HOO, Saint John Drydock waves frantically.

Wasn't that filled in and turned into a drywall plant?

The whole point of the NSS building shipyard capacity though isn't just the facility, it's the experience and ability to do design, (including actual production design of a bought design), planning, execution, quality control and testing of a ship. The facility part is the easy bit that is done in the first year or so in a 10-20 year process to build up all the experience and processes.

 

[Kirkhill]

Absolute travesty that we are not able to take advantage of this -

Do we know that?

An awful lot of stuff keeps changing fast these days.

 

[Kirkhill]

There are other ways to do this. Sell them the design is one of them. The US has similar rules about building ships in country, particularly with the current Fed Gov't all about shipbuilding. The ICE pact may have an effect, build parts of the ship here (bow sections at the Iriving lot across the harbour from the main sheds) and then ship them south.

Lots of ideas. Same thing with Seaspan, they have a design team that could be subcontracted to do work.

Furthermore we don't actually know if there is spare capacity at Irving. I suspect not, but there may be a way if they were to add workforce, find another location to build some of the stuff etc...

Could they build another shed on the Dartmouth side? Or up by Bedford?

 

[Kirkhill]

Wasn't that filled in and turned into a drywall plant?

The whole point of the NSS building shipyard capacity though isn't just the facility, it's the experience and ability to do design, (including actual production design of a bought design), planning, execution, quality control and testing of a ship. The facility part is the easy bit that is done in the first year or so in a 10-20 year process to build up all the experience and processes.

So better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know?